Xnke Posted May 18, 2010 Author Share Posted May 18, 2010 I didn't have a stock fuel rail to use, and I am using o-ring injectors because they were much easier to get at in the junkyard. My total cost on this intake is sitting at 180$, including the fuel rail, which I machined myself. I've managed to bungle up my injector seals in the several months that I've had them, so no running videos yet. I've gotta adjust the fuel rail bracketry a bit and change the seals, and we'll see if i can get it started and running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Wow times wow, to the cool power. I've gotta start cutting things up, even if I don't know how to weld them back together yet. I cannot BELIEVE the acreage between the TBs and the fenderwell there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted May 28, 2010 Author Share Posted May 28, 2010 ANNNNNND! It Runs! Got the fuel leaks sorted out and fixed, had a pinched injector o-ring and a bad fuel rail angle. Time to send the LC-1 off and get it repaired, then reinstalled in the car and start tuning it. Had an issue with excessive spark advance for a few minutes, but got that sorted. I think I have an air bubble in the cylinder head as well, so I'm going to park it on a steep hill overnight and bleed the radiator in the morning. The induction noise...it's...Worth it. I'd do it all again with a pocketknive and duct tape just to get the induction noise... Video as soon as the LC-1 is off and back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 ANNNNNND! It Runs! Got the fuel leaks sorted out and fixed, had a pinched injector o-ring and a bad fuel rail angle. Time to send the LC-1 off and get it repaired, then reinstalled in the car and start tuning it. Had an issue with excessive spark advance for a few minutes, but got that sorted. I think I have an air bubble in the cylinder head as well, so I'm going to park it on a steep hill overnight and bleed the radiator in the morning. The induction noise...it's...Worth it. I'd do it all again with a pocketknive and duct tape just to get the induction noise... Video as soon as the LC-1 is off and back. That's great. Can't wait to see the video. And yes the induction noise is well worth the effort! Â It sounds like........Victory. Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 You guys are making me miss the sound of my triple webers! You've got the best of the sound, but without the hassle (and cost!) of tuning. Sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted June 6, 2010 Author Share Posted June 6, 2010 Pretty rough tune. Rich at idle, adequate under load, really really rough otherwise. Wideband will be installed whenever it gets back, all I have right now is a narrowband...totally awesome, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone028 Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Sweet! Nice work Xnke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 (edited) Thats sweeter than a watermelon in August, man!!! That is the Bee's Knees, and the Gnat's Knuckles!!! I want to say it would have been nice to hear RPM's, but at the same time I want to say I respect you more for not revving your cold started engine. Are you considering investing any more time into cleaning the appearance of the throttle bodies themselves up, or are you pretty much planning on leaving the bosses and hoses and various other obsolete bits as they are? I love how the current appearance of the bodies lends itself to the idea it might be a factory configuration.. but at the same time I wonder how much cleaner it could look. Obviously the car is completely in flux, so please don't take any of this as criticism. I am just stoked to see things stoichifying properly!! Edited June 11, 2010 by Daeron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 I am just stoked to see things stoichifying properly!! I had never seen that word before, yet instantly I knew what it meant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted June 12, 2010 Author Share Posted June 12, 2010 The fuel pressure regulator vacuum line can easily be re-routed to pull from the same place as the MAP sensor, and I could drive an aluminium plug in the port. The front TB has mounting bosses on it for cruise control, and I have the cruise control mechanism. Just have to build or buy a controller and swap over to an electronic speedo and VSS unit to do it. I retained the bosses for future use, you could say. Yes, no RPM's because it was a cold motor and the table isn't really tuned up too good above idle yet, can't drive it legally till i get all the lights and glass in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 (edited) Congratulations, that must be as satisfying as finding a sheep in chest-high grass next to the roadway... What is your idle Kpa reading, incidentally? And is that cammed. (Comparison to some stuff I've done in the past...) Edited June 12, 2010 by Tony D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 At 780-860RPM idle (rough, rough tune...hoping it will smooth out a little) Idle vacuum is 62kPa, with a Delta .454" lift, 234*@0.050" duration regrind. Cam is set up in the #1 cam sprocket hole till I get it tuned in and drive it a bit, save the tune, advance cam to position #2, retune, then I'll make a decision based on how I drive to figure out if the cam timing change is for me or not. I'm thinking if I advance the cam to the #2 position, my idle vacuum will move down to 50kPa or so, and torque band will move lower as well. When I was running the carbs and E88 manifolds, the engine vacuum logs told me the cam started getting efficient about 1950RPM, and it's moved UP to about 2100RPM with the new manifolds. Basically for flat pavement, vacuum goes from 62kPa at 800RPM rolling to 48kPa at 1200RPM to 32kPa at 2100RPM, then 38kPa at 2800RPM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Concur, that movement may help idle resolution and I'd idle it at 900 at least. That really helps be equate some other stuff I messed with, I considered using an e-motive with their PAFZZBlend style mix program to make throttle progression off idle smoother. Are the throttle plates totally closed at idle, with the only air coming from the bypass screws? I found making they were totally closed, and using a single bypass screw to the manifold balance tube helped lower my idle KPA for better Speed-Density response. Actually putting a ZX Idle Bypass Screw (the one that mounts on the side of the plenum of the 82-83 ZX's) with a hose to the air cleaner (or at first a little K&N Cone slipped on the one fitting!) really helped lower the kpa to a more managable level so tip in enrichment wasn't triggered. A stock L will idle at 35kpa at stock curb idle (what, 700rpm or below). So anything in the 40's would be totally satisfactory. I found anything over 50 kpa on the MS to be a bit tricky to manage for the above reasons. A non-linear throttle linkage helps keep the manifold from experiencing spikes to 100kpa on little openings. Good luck, thanks for the numbers, that's better than I thought I'd get. Really helpful, appreciate it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 The idle is set by the same method the SU carb's used...the little plate up on the balance tube. I accidentally JB welded one of the bleed air screws shut, so only one of them works. Throttle-to-throttle balance is set by the screw on the lefthand side of the linkage, the rear throttle is not adjustable, just the front one. I CAN still shut the throttle plates all the way, and open up the rear TB's bleed air screw a lot to get it to idle. It whistles like a sonovabitch though. Idle vacuum doesn't improve much. It does make it much easier to set the idle, however. You can't see it much in the video, but the throttle linkage is non-linear, the first 1/2 of the throttle pedal opens the throttle plates about 2/5ths of the way...it's just a shade more than a 1/4 of the throttle plate travel. So far I have had zero problems with the off-idle MAP signal...color me lucky. In the end, there will be piping installed to fit from each TB to the front of the car, passing through the core support to an air filter...I won't run this on the street without a good filter. Besides, If/When I go turbo, half the intercooler piping will be in place... A little more cleanup, a lot more bodywork, and this car gets painted and registered, and I'll start driving and tuning. Dyno in the fall, if I think I've got it anywhere close. Z-ya shared his MSQ, although the spark table looks really strange. The VE table he's using is also working really well for me, so far, I just loaded it up and the idle is much more polite on the nose and eyes. Still waiting on innovate to fix my LC-1 and get it back to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 The idle is set by the same method the SU carb's used...the little plate up on the balance tube. That plate and screw was only for setting fast idle (checking it actually)... The original SU's used two small screws on the carbs to crack the throttles (bad for kpa). The 73/74 SU's used a unified throttle bypass that took gas from the front carb through a jet system, and then put it to the balance tube---with the throttle plates FULLY SHUT. I found the larger single screw easier to set as well as quieter then smaller individual units. Sounds like if you closed the back screw all the way, and made the throttles evenly shut, you could balance using the screw up front on the linkage, as well as slightly cracking the back 'idle bypass' to equalize flow through the barrels (like a similar passage on Dellorto Carbs to balance flow barrel-to-barrel if the shaft gets twisted.) What is your idle AFR (full of questions, ain't I? )? I found tip in MAP excursions went quite rich due to the rapid MAP response of the stock linkage on SU Bodies converted to EFI. I ended up putting a throttle cable on with a wildly eccentric cam to tone down the tip-in response and mellow the MAP changes. Similar response like yours, half to 3/4 pedal travel to get about 30% throttle angle on the bodies. That seemed to really make low-speed and cruise modulation very easy. Even on a car with a stock cam and 40kpa at idle (best I could do was a 39/40 flicker at stock idle speed compared to 35 with the single body on a plenum.) the non-linear throttle worked wonders for making it easier to tune. Then again, running it really rich at idle seemed to help as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Looking good! I agree with Tony about the linkage. I reworked mine a few months ago and it really improved the tip-in. My setup really likes it a little fat at an idle as well. Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 (edited) Ok, So Tony, you're suggesting rather than use the plate up on the balance tube to set idle, I should instead remove that, meaning the throttle plates will close completely, then use the linkage to crack the front throttle plate, and then use the rear idle adjustment screw to balance the throttles. Do I understand correctly? Why not just drill out the JB-welded bypass screw and replace it with a new one, to regain the front idle air adjustment? I'm currently looking into a unified Idle Air Bypass control system, and have some ideas on paper. The threaded hole in the back of the balance tube is currently fitted up as a vacuum port for the MAP sensor. The front end of the balance tube has a core plug in place. I am considering pulling the core plug, and mounting an idle air control system there. Edited June 13, 2010 by Xnke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 I would seriously consider adding an IAC to your setup. I have this on mine I'm running the extra code and I control the cold start and idle air with the valve. You really want the butterflies closed at idle and the idle controlled with some sort of air bleed. DIY Autotune has a nice unit from Darkstar that would work really well for you. Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 No, what I'm suggesting is removing the plate and screw totally and letting the plates close completely. Then using a separate valve to control idle air from a separate source(the air cleaner, or something...) The screw on the linkage in combination with the rear bypass screw to synchronise off-idle synch. The throttles should be totally closed at idle, cracking them defeats the purpose of running EFI anyway. You will also find that if you have idle air bypass not related to the throttle bodies (like going into the balance log) you won't have the gunk buildup on the throttle plates nearly as much as if you crack them to make it idle. The stock TB idles with a bypass screw and plate totally closed. This should be no different. Having a single screw to adjust for idle speed (and only one bypass route) will make it easier to add the IAC Derek loves... Me? I got a 1/4 hose and needle valve, and I can get it up to 2200 rpms through that small line. This doesn't need to be a big line like stock, but it can be if you want it to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 well hell, I can do all that just closing the throttle plates and opening up the rear idle air bleed. About halfway open, the engine idles on all six cylinders just fine, it just whistles like a sonofabitch from sucking air in. That will work until I mod in an idle air controller, so i can raise my idle a little with the A/C on if I have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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