John Washington Posted August 25, 2001 Share Posted August 25, 2001 Hi, Mike, and thanks for validating some of the stuff I said. I'm glad I didn't get yelled at! On your MSA flares, I've never seen the parts they make, but if there is a height-above-ground discrepency from right-to-left, it is probably due to poor design of the prototype (i.e., the guy who did the prototyping didn't use a tape measure, or was mounting on a car that was sagging on one side or something) rather than a change in the molds. Of course, that doesn't rule out the possiblity there may be other things about them that would indicate age warping of the molds. Warping problems are distinct and separate from issues relating to numbers of parts pulled. Warping is usually due to quality of the resin used to make the molds, thickness of the layup, how the thickness is applied (i.e., if you put it on all at once it generates a lot of heat as it cures), how it is braced, and how it is stored (e.g., outside in the sun for an extended period of time is bad). As far as bracing is concerned, a lot of less knowledgeable laminators don't use any bracing, or use wood. Wood is especially bad for stuff stored outside and subjected to changes in humidity. Better molds use steel tubing welded into a framework. This is attached to the non-working surface of the mold with strips of fiberglass. On smaller molds and molds with a lot of 3-dimensional shape (the VR bonnet is a good example) bracing is not that critical. Well, I went and did it again: I gave away a bunch of secrets of the trade! OK, I'll get back to work. Meanwhile, I like the term you coined, Mike: "Super Vendor." Who's looking for a new line of work? JW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Washington Posted August 25, 2001 Share Posted August 25, 2001 Oops, forgot a couple of things (it's only a half hour til lunch and how much work can I get done anyway ) Thanks to all of you who posted positive comments to my earlier message. It is very encouraging to have the information well received. Ross, you mentioned air freight. I've done that a few times while I was figuring out things (a never ending process). It is cheaper, and though my shop is 15 minutes from the air cargo facility at Sky Harbor, you have to double that for the round trip, plus the time required to accomplish the transaction at both ends and the customer's round trip time. Even though I try to be pretty efficient with my errands and combine such trips with other things, I found it just was not economical to save $50-$75. This is particularly true when you consider that usually the customer only has to do it once or twice (depending on whether he likes the first order and wants more), but if I had to do it every day it would be a real drain on my already limited amount of time. Now with Freightquote, I get door-to-door service with minimal hassle. Last thing and I'll shut up: In my eagerness to explain mold warping I forgot one of the reasons I started down that tangent: wear due to number of parts pulled. Usually, this shows up first as degradation in the gel coat, which is much harder on the mold than on the parts. It will chip away at the edges and is as much a function of the care with which the parts are pulled. Assuming good prototyping and mold design, and good mold release formulations and application, you should not need a crowbar and a sledge hammer to get them out. OK, I'm really done for today...no really... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted August 25, 2001 Share Posted August 25, 2001 i wouldnt try doing fiberglass in california-the enviromental regulations would kill you.but you get get fiber glass parts made in mexicali cheap.thanks to nafta they make everything there now.sony makes tvs there-makita makes powertools there.plus no worrys about evaporative emissions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted August 26, 2001 Share Posted August 26, 2001 Those EPA rules are one reason many fiber glass places are using vacuum assisted resin transfer molding (VARTM) processes. The days of the chopper gun in Cali are over. One VARTM process I know of is proprietary has excellent almost nil void content results, great compaction, etc. A license is like a half million last I heard. It's called SCRIMP. There are others doing similar things though (although the SCRIMP patents are pretty broad). I've seen huge things like bus bodies, and decent sized ship hulls "SCRIMP"'d in one "shot" - pretty impressive. Anyway, since everything is in a vacuum bag, the VOC's have a hard time escaping. The great thing about it is you get excellent, high strength, low void parts out of it. Set up costs for doing VARTM is not huge - vacuum pumps, hose, vacuum bag material and equipment. [ August 25, 2001: Message edited by: pparaska ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted August 26, 2001 Author Share Posted August 26, 2001 It seems I really hit a nerve starting this post . It seems no matter what, it is going to be some time before any of the AZ Z parts are available again . The Only thing that I am really disappointed about is the 'Pantera' rear deck . On a side note: Has anyone seen the quality of the one piece fiberglass front end from JC Whitney (manufactured by M A S racing products)? The JC website posts a picture of the Mustang (60s) unit. I called and requested they fax me a picture of the Z unit, but have not gotten a response For $600, it seems fairly reasonable, but I have not heard or seen any comments on this. Anyone out there have any comments Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted August 26, 2001 Author Share Posted August 26, 2001 As an addendum to the last post... Have any of you guys had any experience with Smoothline products. They seem to have a good line of basic 'stock' pieces and I have e-mailed them for a price list. Also, does anyone know the owners?, maybe a good candidate for the AZ Z molds? Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
383 240z Posted August 27, 2001 Share Posted August 27, 2001 If they are the same company I talked to some years ago out of springdale PA the rocker panels were deseigned to glue over the rusted out steel ones, I was not very keen on this idea as I could not convince myself that this would very strong torsionally my body man told me that z's used this area as a structural member. I'm not sure if this is true or not just relaying info as delivered to me I just bought mine in heavy guage steel from JCWitney. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted August 27, 2001 Share Posted August 27, 2001 Tim, Go to http://photos.yahoo.com/dat74z and you can see pics of the MAS products front end... I have one, and I will only say that is comes VERY ruff. This isn't a Cervini quality piece. It requires a lot of finish work, but can be done. Not sure what we're gonna do with this one, but it wlil likely end up on Jamie Ts 71Z! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted August 27, 2001 Author Share Posted August 27, 2001 Mike, Thanks for the info and link....From a subjective standpoint, what does the one piece unit look like. In your opinion, is it a nice piece, or does it look 'out of sorts'. I REALLY want to put fiberglass pieces on the front of my 73, for weight reasons with the sbc conversion, and this looks like a good option?! Thanks, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 28, 2001 Share Posted August 28, 2001 I found this. I hope the link works. www.jps.net/zparts/showcase/bodykits/S301pc_front/tiltfrt_sample.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 29, 2001 Share Posted August 29, 2001 Wow, didn't realize VR engineering was located in tempe...probably my next door neighboor or something...if so, sorry 'ya have to look at my ugly primered Z every day! Thanks for the insight, maybe I'll have to track ya down one day, and buy some stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted August 29, 2001 Author Share Posted August 29, 2001 I guess if some work was done to make the fender wells look presentable, this may be a nice unit! Thanks for the link!! Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted August 29, 2001 Share Posted August 29, 2001 Sorry Tim.. I missed your reply to this post.. Yes I think the unit would be solid and hold shape, but it would require some serious time to clean it up and get it paint ready. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Washington Posted August 30, 2001 Share Posted August 30, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Racnoth: Wow, didn't realize VR engineering was located in tempe...probably my next door neighboor or something...if so, sorry 'ya have to look at my ugly primered Z every day! Thanks for the insight, maybe I'll have to track ya down one day, and buy some stuff... I'm at University and 101. Call me a day ahead of your planned arrival. I'm a one-man band and am frequently out chasing parts or making deliveries...or maybe just 'out to lunch.' We can fix up that old Z with a new hood or something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fast Frog Posted August 30, 2001 Share Posted August 30, 2001 Hey John! Glad to read your informative posts! We've talked quite a bit on the phone. I'm still looking for pair of Cobra style fender vents(anyone here know where I can start looking?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted August 30, 2001 Share Posted August 30, 2001 Try FactoryFive racing -> http://parts.factoryfive.com/index.html They don't list it as a seperate part that I can see but they obviously have the part. There are tons of Cobra kits out there so maybe grabbing a copy of Kit Car and hitting some WEB sites will turn it up if FactoryFive doesn't offer it seperate. Always liked the look of their cars and the idea of using recycled Mustang parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 tuff z Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 concerning smoothline. i purchased; hood, front fenders and headlight buckets from jack fussenegger [owner] and had them shipped to my friends body shop. when they first opened the hood box, they thought it was steel. all the parts came truck'd and all without damage. i had my body man thoroughly examine all the pieces and he said "these are by far the best fiberglass pieces i have seen, in my 20+ years of paint/restoration/bodywork. anyway, jack's number is 724-274-6002 and/or www.smoothline.com. david Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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