Ernest Harmon Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 Argh, this place is ZCar.Comming more and more every day... No disrespect Ernest but dude, but if you haven't started on your car, what are you drawing on to comment other than internet correspondence? I have addressed each of your myths before, I'm not retreading them again. OTHER than to say your statement about preturbo injection 'not being correct' is just plain WRONG. It does not MATTER whether it's pre or post turbo. Injection BEFORE the turbo will give the same state-change as after the turbo, with the advantage of not needing a high pressure pump to inject and atomize it. The turbo blades make a nice homogenizer in that respect. If you don't understand the physical forces acting on a given modification, please take the time to reserve comment until you do understand them. I am simply restating what I have read in the book maximum boost pages 70,and 73-74.As for pre-turbo injection. Why would you want to compress and as a result add heat to a substance that the whole goal of using in the first place is to cool?When you can inject it post turbo and keep it cool from the start.No disrespect percieved nor do I wish to communicate any.I am researching all options.In an EFI engine I just don't see why you would want to induce any more drag into your turbo than the air that it moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin280zxt Posted September 16, 2010 Author Share Posted September 16, 2010 I am simply restating what I have read in the book maximum boost pages 70,and 73-74.As for pre-turbo injection. Why would you want to compress and as a result add heat to a substance that the whole goal of using in the first place is to cool?When you can inject it post turbo and keep it cool from the start.No disrespect percieved nor do I wish to communicate any.I am researching all options.In an EFI engine I just don't see why you would want to induce any more drag into your turbo than the air that it moves. The water/meth is going to soak up the heat either way pre/post turbo, either cool hot air out of the turbo or keep air cool in the turbo, an if i can increase my turbo output and stop itfrom working against itself, i have a parts turbo and if im eroding the inpeller ill rethink my injection setup and put my spare impeller on, but 30 or 40 percent more turbo efficiency sounds good to me. also i was wondering if anyone knows anything about polishing the inside of compressor housings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodoldjam Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 (edited) The water/meth is going to soak up the heat either way pre/post turbo, either cool hot air out of the turbo or keep air cool in the turbo, an if i can increase my turbo output and stop itfrom working against itself, i have a parts turbo and if im eroding the inpeller ill rethink my injection setup and put my spare impeller on, but 30 or 40 percent more turbo efficiency sounds good to me. also i was wondering if anyone knows anything about polishing the inside of compressor housings? The question that needs to be asked is, what are you expecting to get out of this setup for the price. Cooling the charge isn't going to add any sort of efficiency to the turbo. Though the cooling effect may or may not extend it's life. Your already falling off the stock turbos compressor map at 10psi. The turbo is great for low end but it falls flat on it's face towards the top. I would recommend searching around and looking at Non intercooled cars that run methanol, to get an idea of what you may gain. I'm not going to guess what you may gain but I have a feeling that you will be disappointed. I'm not saying it's not worth it but if that's the only thing you plan on doing. I just don't see you adding much. Edited September 16, 2010 by goodoldjam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin280zxt Posted September 17, 2010 Author Share Posted September 17, 2010 The question that needs to be asked is, what are you expecting to get out of this setup for the price. Cooling the charge isn't going to add any sort of efficiency to the turbo. Though the cooling effect may or may not extend it's life. Your already falling off the stock turbos compressor map at 10psi. The turbo is great for low end but it falls flat on it's face towards the top. I would recommend searching around and looking at Non intercooled cars that run methanol, to get an idea of what you may gain. I'm not going to guess what you may gain but I have a feeling that you will be disappointed. I'm not saying it's not worth it but if that's the only thing you plan on doing. I just don't see you adding much. im working on finding a megasquirt setup so that is where my gains will be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoov100 Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 im working on finding a megasquirt setup so that is where my gains will be If you have the money I would highly recommend converting to the z31 ECU with nistune, or go wolf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodoldjam Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 im working on finding a megasquirt setup so that is where my gains will be Are you considering a standalone? I think that is something that would be worth an investment. If your willing to deal with the install. I have to say a standalone comparison wouldn't be very accurate, I would say that megasquirt alone is quite a improvement over stock. I tried to piece my setup and get a feel for the improvements. Starting with megasquirt and that was a real improvement, just as true with any standalone I would imagine. Second thing I did was add a intercooler leaving the boost stock, it didn't add that much noticeable power. I can attest that it did lower intake temps alot. To get gains you need to have some supporting mods. I have yet to find one thing that I would have done by itself and stopped, unless all I wanted was to up the boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 "I am simply restating what I have read in the book maximum boost pages 70,and 73-74.As for pre-turbo injection. Why would you want to compress and as a result add heat to a substance that the whole goal of using in the first place is to cool?When you can inject it post turbo and keep it cool from the start...In an EFI engine I just don't see why you would want to induce any more drag into your turbo than the air that it moves. " Please re-read the last sentence on my previous post on this matter as this statement makes it eminently applicable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin280zxt Posted September 17, 2010 Author Share Posted September 17, 2010 Are you considering a standalone? I think that is something that would be worth an investment. If your willing to deal with the install. I have to say a standalone comparison wouldn't be very accurate, I would say that megasquirt alone is quite a improvement over stock. I tried to piece my setup and get a feel for the improvements. Starting with megasquirt and that was a real improvement, just as true with any standalone I would imagine. Second thing I did was add a intercooler leaving the boost stock, it didn't add that much noticeable power. I can attest that it did lower intake temps alot. To get gains you need to have some supporting mods. I have yet to find one thing that I would have done by itself and stopped, unless all I wanted was to up the boost. i am looking into megasquirt, do i need to go all out on ms3 or is ms1 going to do everything i need it to, this is no big budget build or anything, and what things do i need, i know i need the sensor ring and a map sensor, but what other thing do i need, do i need a stimulator or relay board, i have considered a z31ecu or a wolf ecu, but the stock ecu is still very limited, why upgrade my super nintendo when i could get an xbox for less is kind of my thoughts on that. but what is the best option for somebody who knows little about fuel injection, i live in a small town, where i own the only 2 Zs that i know of and i dont know anybody with any knowledge of these things. i live in a town where its all about trucks, copenhagen and camaros. or civics with a cold air intake haha. how hard is it to set up one of these Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sticky280zx Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 theres is enough info on this site and 2 others (that i can think of off the top of my head) that almost anyone with half a brain or good reading skills could do it. Then again there is alot of trial and error while tuning so maybe you could set it up to drive daily...then take it to the nearest big city for someone to tune it properly for pushing the limits. But again there is tons of info and maps already on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin280zxt Posted September 17, 2010 Author Share Posted September 17, 2010 theres is enough info on this site and 2 others (that i can think of off the top of my head) that almost anyone with half a brain or good reading skills could do it. Then again there is alot of trial and error while tuning so maybe you could set it up to drive daily...then take it to the nearest big city for someone to tune it properly for pushing the limits. But again there is tons of info and maps already on this site. thanks, i am thinking im going to go with ms2, i have the haynes and original nissan sevice manual aswell so i should be able to figure out what to tap into along with the internet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodoldjam Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 (edited) thanks, i am thinking im going to go with ms2, i have the haynes and original nissan sevice manual aswell so i should be able to figure out what to tap into along with the internet Or do like Hoov said and look into nistune with the Z31 ECU. I've been seeing quite a few shops around me that will tune it now. Megasquirt is usually not on the list of what shops will tune. I can kinda understand that since there can be alot of install error involved. Edited September 17, 2010 by goodoldjam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin280zxt Posted September 17, 2010 Author Share Posted September 17, 2010 Or do like Hoov said and look into nistune with the Z31 ECU. I've been seeing quite a few shops around me that now will tune it now. Megasquirt is usually not on the list of what shops will tune. I can kinda understand that since there can be alot of install error involved. i know where i can maybe get a z31 ecu, but does it need to be a turbo one are they different other than there tune of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodoldjam Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 There seems to be some talk about NA ECUs under the Nistune Q/A here http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/81216-nistune-questions-get-them-answered-here/ Maybe some helpful info On the Z31 ecu install sticky also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin280zxt Posted September 19, 2010 Author Share Posted September 19, 2010 There seems to be some talk about NA ECUs under the Nistune Q/A here http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/81216-nistune-questions-get-them-answered-here/ Maybe some helpful info On the Z31 ecu install sticky also. thanks allot, that was exactly what i was looking for, the na ecu might even be better as it has no knock sensor that wouldnt be hooked up anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.