280z with 280zx brog 5 speed problem

[voltron_boi]

i just recently bought another 5 speed brog transmission, because i thought the one in my car was bad. it was grinding in 3rd and 4th only on high gears. just yesterday i install the new transmission into the car and now it still does the same problem. i am using a act 6 puck spring type clutch and extreme pressure plate with a lighten flywheel. the drive-shaft i herd that you must cut at least 2 inch, which i didn't do so. it fitted fine on my 280 so i just kept it at it is. could that be the problem of grinding issue or is it the shifter?do i need to change it to the mustang type? so anyone who experience this kind of problem in the past, please let me know how you solve the problem.

[2eighTZ4me]

What kind of oil are you using in the transmission? Gear dope or ATF?

[dpuma8]

I would like to know as well since I bought this car from Voltron_Boi. He said the clutch needed to be bled but I guess this isn't the deal. SO what can I do to fix the grinding problem in 3rd and 4th in my 1975 280Z with a 280ZX Borg T-5 Tranny?

[19762802+2]

I would like to know as well since I bought this car from Voltron_Boi. He said the clutch needed to be bled but I guess this isn't the deal. SO what can I do to fix the grinding problem in 3rd and 4th in my 1975 280Z with a 280ZX Borg T-5 Tranny?

 

Did you bleed the clutch? I'm sure if he said it needs to be done, it needs to be done.

[dpuma8]

Not yet until this weekend. I hope bleeding the clutch is the problem but 1st, 2nd, and 5th work perfectly. It is just 3rd and 4th that I have problems with. So Bleeding the clutch might make this transmission near perfect?

 

He also said something about turning the drive shaft by hand but I am not familiar with this.

Edited September 23, 2010 by dpuma8

[2eighTZ4me]

Answer me this, and you will have answered your own question. When you go to put it in reverse, does it grind then? If so, you need to either bleed the clutch, or adjust the pedal so that it doesn't grind when you put it in reverse. If not - your problem lies elsewhere. And let's think about it from a practical sense. If it grinds in 2 gears but not the others - your problem is in the box, NOT bleeding the clutch. Turning the driveshaft by hand?? WTx......????

[dpuma8]

Answer me this, and you will have answered your own question. When you go to put it in reverse, does it grind then? If so, you need to either bleed the clutch, or adjust the pedal so that it doesn't grind when you put it in reverse. If not - your problem lies elsewhere. And let's think about it from a practical sense. If it grinds in 2 gears but not the others - your problem is in the box, NOT bleeding the clutch. Turning the driveshaft by hand?? WTx......????

 

 

 

Yep, no grinding in reverse.

[2eighTZ4me]

Re-read post #2 and answer that question. You need to be running ATF, or a thinner viscosity gear oil. I had the same problem on the track, it would grind from 3rd to 4th. Changed out the gear dope to ATF and problem was a lot less pronounced. I won't say it completely alleviated the issue, but it certainly did help a lot. Another oil you could use is the RedLine ShockProof oil. It's a thinner viscosity and acceptable for use in that tranny.

 

Then again - you may just have bad synchros on those two particular gears. Nothing but a rebuild will cure that. And those T5 rebuild kits are EX-pennnnnsive...not much to them, but they wack you for the rear seal, which happens to have the big metal ring that the driveshaft fits in attached to the seal.

[dpuma8]

Re-read post #2 and answer that question. You need to be running ATF, or a thinner viscosity gear oil. I had the same problem on the track, it would grind from 3rd to 4th. Changed out the gear dope to ATF and problem was a lot less pronounced. I won't say it completely alleviated the issue, but it certainly did help a lot. Another oil you could use is the RedLine ShockProof oil. It's a thinner viscosity and acceptable for use in that tranny.

 

Then again - you may just have bad synchros on those two particular gears. Nothing but a rebuild will cure that. And those T5 rebuild kits are EX-pennnnnsive...not much to them, but they wack you for the rear seal, which happens to have the big metal ring that the driveshaft fits in attached to the seal.

 

 

Dang! How much are you talking about for the rebuild kit? I was hoping to get it rebuilt and then never have to worry about it again but I guess not....

[2eighTZ4me]

I think I paid $165 for my kit. The regular Z 5 speed kits were about $80ea. my cost. The T5 was double the cost of the normal Z tranny kit.

[zxtman]

You need to be running ATF,...

 

Were did you get this information? If I recall correctly, the Nissan T5 is a non-World Class T5. Read below (from the last paragraph of this link).

 

http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/t5_history.htm

 

One last piece of important information. ALL World Class T-5 use ATF oil and NOT heavy gear oil or Redline MTL! All NON-World Class T-5 use 70 wt gear oil. We recommend high quality Synthetic oil as it lasts a long time and over a larger operating temperature. It is important to change the oil in your transmission based on how you use the vehicle. If the vehicle is your daily driver then changing the oil every two to three years is fine. However, if the transmission sees regular track duty and pushed hard, then once or twice a year is in order. When we rebuild transmissions, we can tell when the oil has been changed often as the parts are much cleaner with less over all wear. There is no filter inside the manual transmission only a magnet at the bottom to pick up the metallic particles in the oil, the only metallic parts in a transmission is the gears or bearings. Oil is cheap, transmissions are not!

[Gollum]

Were did you get this information? If I recall correctly, the Nissan T5 is a non-World Class T5. Read below (from the last paragraph of this link).

 

http://www.moderndri.../t5_history.htm

 

One last piece of important information. ALL World Class T-5 use ATF oil and NOT heavy gear oil or Redline MTL! All NON-World Class T-5 use 70 wt gear oil. We recommend high quality Synthetic oil as it lasts a long time and over a larger operating temperature. It is important to change the oil in your transmission based on how you use the vehicle. If the vehicle is your daily driver then changing the oil every two to three years is fine. However, if the transmission sees regular track duty and pushed hard, then once or twice a year is in order. When we rebuild transmissions, we can tell when the oil has been changed often as the parts are much cleaner with less over all wear. There is no filter inside the manual transmission only a magnet at the bottom to pick up the metallic particles in the oil, the only metallic parts in a transmission is the gears or bearings. Oil is cheap, transmissions are not!

 

The FSM....

[MAG58]

The FSM....

 

Was there a question somewhere?

I is confused.

 

Which shifter do you have? The stock shifter on the T-5 can allow to much movement of the shift fork, allowing the detent fingers on the synchro to start to work their way out. The thing will be a mother**** to get into gear, and will promptly want to pop out after. They're pretty easy to get to, since it's the synchro between the mainshaft and input. It can also happen if the tranny's been dogged to death and the clearances have opened up between the two...

[MAG58]

I double post because I can...

 

Completely unrelated to personal incompetence.

Edited September 25, 2010 by MAG58

[Gollum]

Yea, the very post above mine. "where did you get this information".

 

 

I'm stating that the FSM says very clearly to run ATF in your Borg Warner T5. And it's also well advised on mustang forums that ANY T5 with factory syncros to run ATF. Those syncros are like paper and need to be treated very nicely with very thin oil otherwise they'll grind and destroy themselves quite easily.

[2eighTZ4me]

Case in point. My gearbox. Hashed synchros b/c running MTL.

[zxtman]

I'm stating that the FSM says very clearly to run ATF in your Borg Warner T5.

I disagree.

 

The FSM states to use the following gear oil for the Turbo Model Transmission:

"API GL-4 SAE 80W-90 OR Type Dexron", see attachment below:

 

 

Those syncros are like paper and need to be treated very nicely with very thin oil otherwise they'll grind and destroy themselves quite easily.

The Standard T5 uses brass synchros and not fiber as in the World Class T5.

Some good info here:

http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/t5_history.htm

http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_catalog/manual_transmission_overhaul_kits/borg_warner_t5_overhaul_kit.html

 

There's conflicting information being posted, ...So which is it guys?

280ZX FSM Recommended Fuels and Lubricants.pdf

[2eighTZ4me]

If we take it at literal translation, either answer is correct. I'm curious if TonyD has any input on this. Lots of what I've read is this exact same topic. Nobody can give the "final" word - and if they do, there's someone around the corner to rebut that claim.. From my experience, I noted better shifting (i.e. less grinding) in my track car when I ran ATF. When I had MTL 90 in the box, it had a bad grind b/t 3rd and 4th. When I swapped over to ATF, the grind was much less pronounced. Took the box apart later to find a couple bad synchros. When the box was back together, I just used ATF. This is just my personal experience using both. As the disclaimer always says "Your mileage may vary".

 

I don't think there IS a right answer on this topic. The vote could go either way and still be correct based on the FSM's recommendation.

[Gollum]

There was a T5 supplement for one of the years that said to use ATF. I'm not sure if this was a change they made down the road, but I've read it probably a hundred times when I was doing my turbo swap and had a T5 bolted to it.