Guest Justin Posted August 26, 2001 Share Posted August 26, 2001 I've had a 94 Z28 for about 5 years now and, well, I've gotten bored with it. I've considered MANY other cars, 69 camaros, 70-71 Challengers, 87-93 Fox body 5.0's, SR20DET swapped 240SX's, Omni GLH's, MKII turbo MR2's, etc, etc. Right now, a V8 powered 240Z seems to be the most cost effective option for being a fast, fun, reliable, daily driver in the sub-$10,000 range. I'm also amazed by the relative simplicity of the swap (relative to other big motor/small car swaps) But of course I've only begun to research this option so this could easily change. Well, I guess I'll start out by mentioning what I want... an early 70's Datsun 240 powered by an LS1 backed by a T-56. I realize it would be substantially cheaper to build a carbed 350 SBC, or Ford 302 backed by a T-5... but I like, am familiar with, and am comfortable with 4th gen F-body drivetrains. My overall price cap for the project will have to be right around $8,000. I have yet to call around the salvage yards to price out an LS1/T56 combo, but what's a guesstimate of a fair price to pay, $5,000... $6,000? how much cheaper would it be to get an LT1? I know that cost can quickly balloon with any major project. Between aquiring the car and the drivetrain, it would leave a shoe-string budget for everything else. Basically I was curious how realistic this goal is. Any opinions are welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted August 27, 2001 Share Posted August 27, 2001 First, buy the JTR swap book. The new version has updated info in it and will give you a VERY good idea as to what's involved. You'll also want to look around to see if there are any rust free Zs in your area and what they're going for. Since you didn't fill out that portion of your profile none of us have any idea where you're located to help you look. Aside from the drivetrain and car don't forget the suspension. You'll want to be able to harness the new found power and you'll also want to be able to stop. There are mild brake upgrades and there are wild brake upgrades so your budget and desire to stop will have to be your guide The little things are what eat you up. Radiator is about $180, electric fan can vary, exhaustheaders, driveshaft, new wheels?, etc. etc. I can't easily give you a final cost, I'm afraid to add up my receipts, but it's not so bad as project cars go. After you've gotten the JTR book make a list and research parts prices. You can do things to save money and we'll help you where that's a good idea but you'll want to make a list as a start.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justin Posted August 27, 2001 Share Posted August 27, 2001 Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, I live in northern Indiana, which will make finding a rust free 240Z that much more difficult. Depending on how plausible my plan is, I will be willing to drive many hours for the right Z at the right price though, which will definately open my options up. I actually called earlier today to order a JTR book, but they were closed what with it being Sunday and all. I'll be ordering the book tomorrow after I get off work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted August 27, 2001 Share Posted August 27, 2001 I bought my current 204z (a red one and 99.9% rust free) from its owner in San Diego. ebay. I paid $1700 plus $500 shipping about 18 mo ago. Definitely spend more money on a better car in the beginning. You will come out WAY ahead in the long run. $5000 should get you into the LS1, but for $6500 you could buy a complete 94-95 Lt1 T56 car. Which would mean EXACTLY like your current car and give you a ton of spares for your driver as well as any of the odds and ends for the conversion and you could sell the rest to someone looking to build a drag car or who wrecked their own 4th gen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justin Posted August 27, 2001 Share Posted August 27, 2001 quotebut for $6500 you could buy a complete 94-95 Lt1 T56 car. Which would mean EXACTLY like your current car and give you a ton of spares for your driver as well as any of the odds and ends Well, my current car is actually a 4L60E car (which is a big portion of the reason I'm bored with it). In any case, the plan would be to sell my current car, buy a miscellaneous beater car, and put the rest towards the LS1/T56. I guess another important question is what do you guys use for a rear-end? Is the 240Z stocker stout enough to handle 350 ft-lbs with street tires? Just glancing through the internet I've seen everything from original rears, narrowed Ford 9"s, and even an Infinity Q45 independent setup being used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted August 27, 2001 Share Posted August 27, 2001 Justin, Go to the Drivetrain section and search on rearends. If you get an R200 equipped car, I htink you will be fine for the power range you are shooting for. I'm running a 383 stroker with 490+Ft# of torque and I'm doing fine with my R200 LSD Rearend after many years of autocrossing with the L6 motor and now two years with my V8/T56 combo. Mike Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted August 27, 2001 Share Posted August 27, 2001 The R200 came in th elater Zs, the 280s and up I think. However that rear swaps right into the older cars The 87.5-89 300ZX Turbo cars have the rear you want if you'd like a limited slip. Skip over the SE all white cars though as those are viscous and harder to swap in. We're working on getting info together for an R230 swap out of the Q45 and some other cars (300ZX later years) but that's not quite to the point where it's as easy as the R200. Hope oit gets there soon though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted August 27, 2001 Share Posted August 27, 2001 If you have another car other than your Z/28, great. If not, look at how long and how much more involved these projects have been for some of the other guys. You definitely need something else to drive while you are working on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justin Posted August 27, 2001 Share Posted August 27, 2001 Thanks for the info on the R200, right now I'm still in the very very early planning stages, and it's a relief that there's (from the sound of it) a more or less bolt in rear-end that'd be up to the task. Mike C, don't worry, I'm fully aware that this isn't exactly a weekend project. If I end up going this route I'll get a beater car to drive during the buildup. As for building the actual car, If I'm able to do it from start to finish in 4 months I'll be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted August 27, 2001 Share Posted August 27, 2001 Depending on how your budget works out and your power desires...just another data point:I've seen a damaged 96 Z28 with intact and fine powertrain for $3500US for the whole car. So lots of value in used parts (it wasn't totalled by any means. Being in the 4th gen circle you're aware of how easy it is to bump an Lt1 to higher power levels (head gasket/cam/headers/TB) with many of those parts even available used at fair value. LS1 would be wicked if price is fair of course! Call up Graham's for powertrain prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Star 1 Posted August 27, 2001 Share Posted August 27, 2001 Jeromio on this fourm just picked up an LS1 4L60 E for $2000. I have this combo in my 73 Z. You want have time to get bored when driving this car. 12.65 ET 110 MPH bone stock. [ August 27, 2001: Message edited by: Lone Star 1 ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted August 28, 2001 Share Posted August 28, 2001 I think when I'm all done I'll probably have right around $9000 in this car, including the actual price of the car. But that's with alot of labor. I've been working on this car for about 2 years - but it's also my daily driver. There have been 3 projects that took it off the road so far. The first one, replacing a blown L24 with an L28 junkyard motor, turned into a cut a big chunk of the rusted frame out and weld in new structure. This is the thing that you want to avoid by finding an Arizona or California car. There's lots of info here and elsewhere on upgrading the brakes and suspension, which you will definately need to do. I'm hoping to start the LS1 swap in 2-3 weeks and I'm shooting for a one month turn around. Stop laughing. No, really. One month, that's my goal. C'mon, quit it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 28, 2001 Share Posted August 28, 2001 Snicker, Snicker, Snicker... Good luck! Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justin Posted September 4, 2001 Share Posted September 4, 2001 Well, I've been giving things quite a bit of consideration that past few days, and decided to go the LT1 route. This project will be my first major undertaking, and I feel it'd be wise if I didn't start heading into relatively new territory. I figure an LT1 swap will be far simpler, and it will be much easier to squeeze an LT1 into my budget as well. I figure I'll get a complete motor, do a compression and leak down test, and assuming it's fine, throw in an LT4 HOT cam kit and drop it in. So, as far as the plan goes, the type of motor is now a lock... onto the tranny. I'm debating between 2 trannies, a T-56 or a built up T-5. The T-56 gets bonus points for the coolness factor of a 6th gear, while the T-5 gets bonus points for cost. So off the bat they're dead even, which leads me to a few questions concerning Z's: 1.) The LSD equipped R200's comes with 3.36 gears, correct? Are there 4.00+ gears available, and if so, how much do they cost? 2.) Aerodynamically, how stable is the car once you get upwards of 140? For those of you who used the method suggested in the JTR book to lessen bump steer, how much of an improvement did it make in high speed stability? Basically, If I'm limited to 3.36 gears, and the car is too hairy to take towards the 150 mark, then I'm thinking the tallish gearing of the T-56 is less than ideal. If this is the case a built T-5 might better be suited to my needs. Also, this will be way down the road, but probably a year or two afterwards I'll be tearing into the motor if finances allow. Right now I'm leaning towards destroking it and turning the motor into a 302 LT4, 8000rpm screamer... which would make taller gearing that much more undesireable. So, what do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Gad Posted September 4, 2001 Share Posted September 4, 2001 R200 LSD came w/ a 3:70 ratio. I believe it is limited to that alone from the "salvage" yards. Sounds like you've got a good starting point. Good luck!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 4, 2001 Share Posted September 4, 2001 Yes, 3.7 in the 87.5-89 300ZX turbos only. Even the viscous LSD SE edition was 3.7 I believe. With the T56 this seems to be pretty good. I can attest to 1st and second being quite fun with the T56 even if your secondaries won't open I've hit 6th once but with the way my motor runs now it's not a fair comparison. Revs dropped to just below 2K and I was likely above legal speeds I think it's a decent ratio - lower might be just a smoke fest and as it stands now with my poor running motor I can lay 245/45 Nitto drag radial QUITE easily. R230's come in 4 series I believe but that swap isn't as easy (yet). Hope that helps some. Oh, 140+mph without spoilers is asking for "bad things" from the aero discussions we've had here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted September 4, 2001 Share Posted September 4, 2001 quote: Aerodynamically, how stable is the car once you get upwards of 140...Basically, If I'm limited to 3.36 gears, and the car is too hairy to take towards the 150 mark, then I'm thinking the tallish gearing of the T-56 is less than ideal. If this is the case a built T-5 might better be suited to my needs. Justin, I'll just touch on what BLKMGK said about top speed--the Z has a tendency to get airborne at high speeds unless you have some serious aerodynamic mods. You'll want to peruse the various forums here to get the necessary info--we've had some great discussions with information given by very knowledgeable people. One of those was "Bellypans for aerodynamics." Make good use of the search function and you'll pull up quite a bit of relative info. Enjoy your conversion. About the T5 vs T56 swap--if you have the cash, get the T56 because you will be way ahead in the reliability dept. The T5 is much more fragile as you are probably aware. I have a WC T5 and I'll run about 300 to 375 at the flywheel, but not much more to avoid breaking it. I think an LT1 would be almost too much for it, especially with that hot cam you are stabbing in. Enjoy the ride Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justin Posted September 4, 2001 Share Posted September 4, 2001 Well Davy, I think you have an excellent point about the T-5 reliability issues. Just found out my buddy shipped his T-5 out to get rebuilt yesterday. (not sure what type it is, Tremec, TKO, whatever). And this is with the tranny residing under his low 14 second 91 GT 5.0 for only a year. Perhaps this is an omen steering me towards the T56. As far as the aero mods go, could somebody post links to some aftermarket sites? I'd prefer to keep the body as stock as possible, but I suppose It'd be better to have the clean lines of the car broken up by a few aero bits than a tree. Well, I guess my next step is to order the JTR book on TPI and TBI swaps to give me an idea of what all is involved with the wireing and fuel system... I'll probably have lots of new and exciting questions after I read through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted September 4, 2001 Share Posted September 4, 2001 Justin, send your friend to this link: http://www.gearzone.net/ They have a "counter-gear stabilizer" that seems like it is a great idea for the money. I'll upgrade my T5 before installing it. Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 The JTR TPITBI book has some good info on the T56. It has SOME info on swapping in the TPITBI motors. It mostly boils down to telling you to stay away from Corvette motors and to telling you some portions of the TPI harness that can be removed etc. For an LT1 swap I'm not sure just how much you'll get out of it but it does have some good info on air duct routing. Some of the folks here can probably give you at least as much info so far as LT1 wiring. The regular Z swapbook is a must if you've not got it BTW as it'll help you with wiring too. If you go with the LT1 ECU you might want to check into the LT1 Edit software package - might be nice for your current car too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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