Cost comparison of a L28ET vs KA24e

[dpuma8]

My friend has a 240sx that he sold to me for $300 that runs perfectly and has the SOHC KA24e. I recently pulled the L28ET out of my car and my plan was to rebuild it until I bought the 240sx. So I was wondering how much it will cost to go the KA24E route instead of the L28ET. So far I have spent $500 for a rebuilt P90 head and that is it.

 

So is there a lot of modifications to fit the KA24E? How much will it cost me in the end if I turbo it? My T-5 transmission grinds so I need to either get it rebuilt or find a tranny in good condition. Plus it seems it is really hard to find parts for the L28ET.

 

So what do you guys think? What exactly is needed to go KA?

[Oddmanout84]

Why am I getting the sense of deja vu?

[LanceVance]

Why am I getting the sense of deja vu?

 

I guess he didn't like my suggestion?

[dpuma8]

Dang! I was hoping people wouldn't notice. I only got one answer from Lance Vance that at first told me to stick with the L28ET but then praised how KA24 engines and the transmissions are so cheap. Is it so cheap to convert over?

 

Just oping I can get some more opinions

[LanceVance]

What I was really trying to point out that you could use the KA transmission on your L28...

You mentioned your transmission was giving you problems, so that's why I suggested that. They are cheap for a reason, everybody swaps them out few swap them in, so if you have more transmission problems later its can easy cheap fix because there is little demand. Use what you can off of the sx and sell what you can't, use the proceeds to fund your L28. You can easily make $300 back selling parts.

 

I'm not sure what the cost of swapping in the KA would be, but when you already have money invested in your L I don't see the point. Swapping is always going to have more costs associated with it. Your doing something custom which is almost always going to cost more than a bolt in solution.

Edited January 21, 2011 by LanceVance

[dpuma8]

I can modify the bellhousing to take the 240sx transmission but that might cost a good chunk of change. The only motor cost is the $500 I spent on the rebuilt P90 head and I am sure I can put it on eBay and recover some of that cost.

 

So in the long run if I want 350 hp, is the L28ET the better option in the long run and more reliable than the KA? Does the KA make good power or does it need major upgrades to get to that 350 hp level and not a "better" investment than the L28ET?

 

I can get a KA anywhere and a tranny for cheap like you said and there are parts everywhere. If it can't be that reliable with a turbo on it and the L is stronger, then the L series is better in the long run.

[Matt K]

You've got a KA24E...which is a dog compared to the KA24DE (twin cam). I wouldn't waste the time on a single cam KA. Maybe if you were going to build a DE & add a turbo, it might be worth it.

[kj280z]

You've got a KA24E...which is a dog compared to the KA24DE (twin cam). I wouldn't waste the time on a single cam KA. Maybe if you were going to build a DE & add a turbo, it might be worth it.

 

A KA24DE (twin cam) turbo setup is really sweat if done correctly. It is also much cheaper than the old L Motors and parts are more readily available for the KA

[Gollum]

The L28ET is cheap, IF you don't go blowing your wad building them up. Plenty of people have made 400hp on junkyard motors. But people insist on just pouring into them on bottom end rebuilds with forged pistons, headwork including upgraded cams and valve trains, etc. It just adds up quick.

 

But in reality all the parts you actually NEED to make that horsepower is the same weather it's spent on a L28 or KA.

 

Big turbo

Large Fuel injectors and pump

Good computer to control all of it

 

Then there's the little odds and ends like FMIC, fuel rail, etc.

 

Where the KA really shines is that most of the turbo conversion parts are EASIER and CHEAPER to find than L28ET conversion parts. It makes way more sense to convert even the SOHC KA to turbo than the NA L series.

 

But, as it's been stated. You already have a L28ET, and you've already poured a bit of cash into it. Just stick with it. The KA trans conversion can be done for a heck of a lot less than buying a new transmission, and once you've had the bellhousing modified you don't need to do it over and over again each time you blow a tranny. There are guys with L motors that have gone through 3+ L transmissions in a year. You won't have that many issues with the KA trans, making the $100 or so it takes to get the bell housing modified worth it.

 

Spend money wisely, not just spend as little as possible. That's the key to a quality budget project.

[Gollum]

I just read in the other thread that you have the T5 tranny. Dump that POS like a bad date!!! Unless you're going to spend $1k+ on race gears being put in it just isn't worth it. And even the WC T-5 has a crappy case that flexes causing it to break. The "real" solution is to get an aftermarket case with high strength gears which costs $2-3k.

 

Swap in KA transmission, $200 swap TOPS!!! Done! Sell the T-5 to some datsun nut that thinks it's worth something, get $50+ back.

[kj280z]

I just read in the other thread that you have the T5 tranny. Dump that POS like a bad date!!! Unless you're going to spend $1k+ on race gears being put in it just isn't worth it. And even the WC T-5 has a crappy case that flexes causing it to break. The "real" solution is to get an aftermarket case with high strength gears which costs $2-3k.

 

Swap in KA transmission, $200 swap TOPS!!! Done! Sell the T-5 to some datsun nut that thinks it's worth something, get $50+ back.

 

I agree - the KA is a better choice and the turbo parts are MUCH cheaper!

 

Plus, you can get a KA24DE with 5 speed tranny AND the computer and wire harness for $500 all day long

 

you can have the stock computer flashed (RS Enthalpy does it and a few others) - with an upgrade of injectors and a Z32 MAF you're in business for a fraction of the cost of a Turbo L and it'll make GREAT power!

Edited January 22, 2011 by kjones

[Oddmanout84]

If you want my opinion, I'd almost say its down to preference.

 

I have both an L28ET and a KA24DE. The L28 has cost me boku bucks not only in the initial cost (was lucky to find a full rebuild w/ tuned Haltech ECU) but in parts down the road. The guy who built it did *mostly* a good job but mixed up one bolt and a stackup which cost me ANOTHER rebuild. Its still in pieces, nickel and dimeing me. Aftermarket parts are harder to find and difficult to acquire at lower prices. I'm also slightly resentful about the research I've done on the forums about the P90 head being quite outdated compared to the more modern engines, and having those nasty detonation issues if you're not careful. For the modest power goals I have, I'd rather not use methanol. I'm already running pig rich in boost to control detonation. Not my ideal solution.

 

The KA24DE I got for FREE. It was pulled out of an S14 because it was on its last legs, and nobody wanted it anymore. Teardown showed 2 spun rod bearings and major oiling issues because the pickup ingested pieces of timing chain guide. I've known of people that have gotten perfectly running engines for the same price, however. Many SR converts simply want to get rid of them. The KA24DE has around the same displacement as an L24, and makes more power. Longer stroke limits redline, as does the half-counterweighted crank. What you gain though is low end torque. If you were insane or just really well funded, theres a fully counterweighted crank from Brian Crower that also increases the stroke making a total 2.6L displacement. But that's not really needed. On these forums there's also a graph showing the flow characteristics of the KA24DE head. Both stock and ported KA's beat out the P90 by a fair margin. Most aftermarket parts for the KA are also lot cheaper and more readily available than the L series. Its not the same level of support as the SR or RB market, but its enough. Unless you fab up the mounts yourself, look forward to spending around $500 to get them from Mckinney.

 

You can build both motors to insane levels of cost, depending on how and where you spend your money. Even after building my L28, I'm still going to consider building up the KA as a possible replacement. Both motors have their strengths and weaknesses. The most important question (in my mind) though is, do you really want to put a 4cyl in an engine bay meant for a 6?

[Bernardd]

Can you explain what it is you need for the L28ET that you cannot find? At 350whp I wouldn't rebuild anything unless it was smoking or knocking. The L28ET will live long and prosper at 350whp.

[Oddmanout84]

Can you explain what it is you need for the L28ET that you cannot find? At 350whp I wouldn't rebuild anything unless it was smoking or knocking. The L28ET will live long and prosper at 350whp.

 

Na-Nu Na-Nu.

 

Good bearings and piston rings are increasingly difficult to find, that's my main beef. Look through the "How to Modify your Datsun OHC" book as well; most of the pictures of aftermarket parts he shows are NLA. Things like better intake manifolds must be custom fabricated unless you want to go with the Lone Wolf intake, not everyone has that ability (I recently acquired a welder, but am not set up to do aluminium). I'm not saying its IMPOSSIBLE to find these items, just usually difficult and cost prohibitive. Kameari is a good example, most of their products make the RB25DET market look cheap. I think I know what you're trying to say though, that most motors don't need a rebuild and can be built without being cracked open. I can't do that. What happens when you DO need to crack it open? Lots of the L28s people find are in junkyard cars, or if they're lucky, a recently wrecked/well cared for donor.

 

The L28ET I bought was kept wrapped up in a garage and had about 4000 miles on it, it crapped out in less than a year of light driving, crank destroyed. The stock L28 I swapped out of my 280z had thick grit and half of a 3M sanding disc in the oil pan. The other stock L28ET I picked up out of a car "never rebuilt" had gouged cylinder walls on 1 and 6 because of oil starvation. Basically what I'm trying to say is that its pretty hard for me to just take a 30+ year old motor at face value and start slapping on external power adders without any consideration to the internals. Unless I planned on beating the piss out of it until it died. I'd rather have knowledge that the motor is (at least) inspected and good to go, and if it needs new consumables I have ready access to them. With the L28 it seems to be increasingly difficult and expensive.

 

The KA on the other hand is newer, a bit more efficient, and the aftermarket has actually grown within the last decade. This means plenty of parts are readily available and there is a larger price range to choose from. Its a much more economical option.

[Bernardd]

Well, if you think you need all this custom hard to find stuff for a 350whp L28 engine then it's best you move on to the KA. Are you going to buy one of the new BW efr turbo's for your setup?

[Oddmanout84]

Well, if you think you need all this custom hard to find stuff for a 350whp L28 engine then it's best you move on to the KA. Are you going to buy one of the new BW efr turbo's for your setup?

 

 

Others might not.

 

Its a personal problem for me. I just like to overdo things.

[kj280z]

Let's use the manifolds as an example (there are several other examples as well)

 

Do a search on ebay or with google on KA24DE Turbo exhaust manifold or KA24DE Turbo headers or KA24DE Intake manifold - you'll be AMAZED at what's available and the prices are GREAT! Now try to find equivalent parts for the L Motor - good luck! Ain't gonna happen!

 

Then look at all the turn key turbo setups for the KA - again you can't compare -

 

Take a look at some of the huge numbers they're making with a properly built KA - no one has ever gotten close to them with an L Motor due to the head design and several other factors

 

Good headgaskets for a turbo KA - $80 - Good luck finding a 2 mm (or 1mm) metal headgasket that is equivalent for under $200

 

The list goes on and on

 

Plus when an L Motor breaks - usually it's you who is the only one who has the correct expertise to fix it... The KA is well supported and well known by most shops - when you bring an L Motor to them nowadays they don't wanna deal with them anymore...

 

It's nice to be able to go to any shop and say - "open the hood and pretend it's a 240sx"

 

Just my .02

[dpuma8]

very interesting comments. I am leaning heavily towards the KA but I still can be swayed to the L.

 

I really like the idea of parts availability, newer design with better flow and gas mileage.

 

So what exactly do I need to switch to the KA? How much will i need to spend to get it running and welding expense?

[LanceVance]

McKinney Motorsports has engine mounts for the swap, around $450 before shipping I believe. Your also looking at around $200 for a decent custom exhaust. Still need the turbo, intercooler, exhaust manifold and all the associated hardware (which can get expensive in a hurry). You would have to figure what your going to run ECU wise. Custom driveshaft too.

 

This is all without cracking open the engine, just trusting the stock internals to handle more than twice the original horsepower and torque that they were intended for...

 

To do a proper turbo oriented rebuild you would be looking at around $1.5-1.7k just on internals. Add another 1k for a turbo kit... you can go cheaper, but your not going to get 350 hp, at least not without breaking anything.

 

Im sure someone will say you can get 350 without half the stuff I listed, but how often do you really want to be pulling the engine? KA ringlands are weak, and your going to need a good tune to keep from detonating, so why not do it right?

 

You know how it is with cars, between being cheap, reliable, fast you only get two. Choose what's important too you and stick to it. I personally believe that if you spend a little extra the first time around, you save more in the long run.

 

My advice to you is go with the KA, you seem pretty geared in that direction anyway. Keep it stock, get it tuned up and reliable, and keep it NA while you save up enough for a proper turbo conversion. Once you have everything together you should have all the kinks associated with an engine swap worked out, and you'll know (hopefully) about any problems with your engine.

 

Good luck in whatever you do, and don't forget to take lots of photos and show us on here as you do it.

[Gollum]

 

The L28ET I bought was kept wrapped up in a garage and had about 4000 miles on it, it crapped out in less than a year of light driving, crank destroyed.

 

This is why a lot of people like Tony D talk about not even rebuilding the L motor, or even looking for motors that have been rebuilt because often more times than not, it hasn't been rebuilt even as well as it would have been done from the factory!

 

I understand though. It's getting harder to find these motors with lower miles, while the KA motors people are finding for $500 and under are in much better overall shape.

 

But both motors, if in good shape, have no reason to be cracked open at 350hp.

 

And the KA swap can be done for CHEAP. Was I the only one watching the thread of the budget KA build? (can't remember the user, but the car was white, ran on ethanol) That was a cheaper build than even the CHEAPEST of the L28ET guys I've seen pushing those HP numbers. And they beat that car like a rag doll at the track over and over again with little to no real engine issues.