460ZGT Project Build

[yellowoctupus]

I thought this was a funny picture.  See how the engine bay on this green '93 Mark VIII is gutted already?  I beat the junkyard to getting their stock photo for their online inventory page.

 

 

Turns out the stock cobra exhaust manifolds will bolt on and should meet up with my custom 'GT' SOHC Y pipe.  That's a relief.  I'm all set with making any more weird custom headers.  That's a pain, especially with the clearance I'm sure I'll have on that side of the engine.

[yellowoctupus]

Engine's in.   Fits fine.  Honestly doesn't look much tighter than the SOHC, I think because the 'wide' measurement from the DOHC comes off the cam cover, which sits in front of the shock towers, so it's somewhat a moot point.   I'll get some pictures of of the latest surgery tomorrow....

[yellowoctupus]

Quick Pic Time:

 

As a note: I did not have to modify my oil pressure pickup piece (Some guys shorten it because of steering clearance?), and my oil filter should still mount to the block like it did from the factory.  I've never been a huge fan of external mounts, it's just more potential failure points. Sometimes you gotta, sometimes you don't. 

 

One BIG thing I'll have to do is make some sort of throttle body to MAF tube.  I want to run the stock hood, and I used the battery box area last time for the air cleaner.  I'm thinking I'll have to 'glass one up, but I'm not sure that's the best route.... sounds like a lot of work even IF I get it right the first time. Radiator hoses are also not the same, but that shouldn't be a HUGE deal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2017 by yellowoctupus

[yellowoctupus]

So, I'm sure the flow isn't perfect, but it's all sealed up and makes it from point A to point B, so it will work for now. Took a bit longer than I thought it would, a lot of the geometry had to be JUST RIGHT, like the lower sealing flange.

 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2017 by yellowoctupus

[yellowoctupus]

Project update. 

 

Edited July 23, 2017 by yellowoctupus

[RayJ]

Do we get to see videos?

[yellowoctupus]

All in good time.  I haven't actually shot any videos yet.  Tomorrow's the first drive in to work with the new engine (I've clocked ~10mi around town, we'll call it good). 

 

I spent most of the weekend trying to get a hood latch snuck back behind the intake, with varied amounts of success.  Ended up pinning the hood.  I really wanted to avoid drilling holes through my nice clean hood, but oh well.  Sometimes enough is enough.   I might end up trying the Quik Latch Mini Blue anodized latches, they look very clean, and for under $60 for two the price isn't unreasonable. 

[Ryan Merrill]

you can swap intake to the 96-98 intakes. Just remove the butterflies in the intake or JB weld them open. You will have much better choices of throttle bodies and intake pieces. Love the 4V setup. I put one of those motor in my old fox body.

 

[yellowoctupus]

So, I killed my first universal joint yesterday going to work.  Anticlimatic, and after work I rebuilt it in a bank parking lot with some cheap as* chinese universal joint, 2x 14mm wrenches, a screwdriver and a hammer.  It was a US forged unit, maybe a Moog?  looks like the fracture initiated at the grease port, which I understand is somewhat common.   

 

I also had a bad serpentine tensioner on the new motor which caused me to almost chew through my belt all the way, then when I was trying to emergency shim the tensioner at the mounting bolts, I stripped one of the bolts out.  They only had 6.5mm of thread engagement of a M8 into an aluminum head.  Rough rule of thumb for threaded hole depth is 1.5*diameter.  8*1.25=12mm THEY ONLY HAD 6.5 GRR.  Anyways, the hole and threads were super deep already, so I just put a longer bolt in.  Nice of them to pre-deep thread the hole that they expected to strip out...  Thankfully, the old SOHC tensioner, with it's different part number still bolted right up and worked fine on the DOHC engine.

 

 

Edited July 23, 2017 by yellowoctupus

[yellowoctupus]

So, those stupid polyurethane bushings that go on the TC rods (in the famous works of Alice Cooper) "CAN GO TO HELL!!!"

 

I actually broke the TC rod.  The polyurethane profile and material makes it so stiff, if anything it would impede motion and make the suspension BIND!  What a crap design.  One of my buddies on Hybridz (big shout out to Rayaapp2!!!) came through with an extra one so I could make the drive to work the next day, but I turned de-stiffened both sides' bushings first.  Only took a minute on my lathe, but I'm sure it will keep the TC rods from breaking in the future. The picture on the lathe shows one bushing machined, the other is as-purchased for comparison.

 

 

Edited July 23, 2017 by yellowoctupus

[yellowoctupus]

Well, time to breathe some NEW life into the never ending saga of my car being in pieces.  It's all together and driving right now, but I have a stub axle that feels loose (???) on it's splines, and I've been breaking universals only with a 4.6 and street tires.  Sooo... I brought home a 1994 Mark VIII to cannibalize.  I am going to (eventually) make the rear end fit up in my Z, and I'm going to use the spare engine to build up a supercharger manifold, etc.  The 4.6 DOHC is a cool engine, but it still lacks the low end punch the Z NEEDS. 

 

[yellowoctupus]

8.8 is out.  Car is ready to be picked up by the next 'for scrap only' owner..

 

Really not terrible getting the rear end out. Drop the Exhaust, gas tank (gas tank probably not necessary, but it was already falling down on this car...) then unbolt all 4 of the subframe mounting points (these are ALWAYS rusty, and very hard to get out, if you can without breaking the bolts or snapping the unibody welded in 'nuts') . All of mine came free, but it took a while.  I also grabbed ALL of the Ebrake cables, including the push on push off foot lever, as you never know what little piece of hardware you'll need.  The rear air springs are easy to pop out too, after you let the air out (just clip the harness on one of the springs, and power it 12v+ to the orange wire, ground to the grey wire)  there's a little spring tab you push which keeps the whole air spring from spinning, then you just spin the whole thing off.  I was able to do both wearing rubber / mechanics gloves.  They have a double 'keyhole' looking engagement that should pop right out of the unibody once you spin them. 

 

Oh, a nice/ interesting point, the rear assembly is PERFECTLY balanced when you pick it up by the pumpkin on the jack.  I pulled it out of the car on the jack and the whole thing just slowly spun around on the jack.  It's nice when for once something doesn't fight you.

 

 

Edited July 23, 2017 by yellowoctupus

[yellowoctupus]

Tore into the rear end today, and found one thing out I was a little disappointed in; I can't recut new splines on the OEM Ford shafts, as they 'neck down' after the splines.  Thanks Ford, you just saved 6oz from a 2ton car.  Oh well. Here's how I held the hub from spinning while removing the spindle nut.  I think it's a 36mm, but I had an english socket which fit nice and tight. An impact would probably pop these right off, but it was 1am. Not impact wrench time at my house.

 

 

One tip to remove the shafts from the outboard CV shaft is called the 'pipe drop' method. 

 

The Ford service manual says "NOTE: The interconnecting shaft cannot be removed from the outboard CT joint. Outboard CV joints are serviced as assemblies, including the interconnecting shaft, boot, clamps, grease and circlips."

 

Essentially, you can 'pop' the shaft and outermost wire circlip through the cv bearing holder using the mass of the shaft itself.  Simply have a pipe that's a few inches (feet etc) longer than the center shaft that JUST fits over the splines, and drop the whole assembly on the floor.  Alternatively I used my vice on a shorter piece of pipe and it came out so easily, it was ridiculous.  I had been trying to beat the shaft (...I know...) with a bronze punch on the inner bearing race which did NOTHING. I think it took two drops and the shaft dropped right into my hand.

 

 

This was helpful:  http://www.ffcars.com/forums/66-2006-roadster-archives-read-only/155195-calling-donor-irs-breakdown-experts.html#post1345108

 

Factory Five makes new shafts, with stock lengths (for their AC Cobra IRS kits) and in non-stock lengths, I'm going to get a price on new shafts from them, and maybe elsewhere, if I can find someone else who makes them.  Worse come to worse I'll make them myself, but it's just one more time sucker if I have to do it at home.

Edited July 23, 2017 by yellowoctupus

[LMoore56]

Check the Mazda Miatas for the axles, they have the Ford IRS with the 7.5 Diff. and they are closer to the Z's width.

[yellowoctupus]

7.5 axles are a bit smaller (in diameter) according to the Factory Five paperwork. (pg6)

 

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/IRS-STD-rev-K.pdf

 

This PDF install manual has some good info in the front about which Ford cars came with IRS, Limited Slip etc. 

 

Thanks for the heads up though.  Any leads I can get on stock replacement parts are certainly welcome.  I'm actually wondering aloud now if any of the 4wd 8.8 fronts came with the same size axles to the short side (ie, Ford Expedition etc). 

 

From what I can find, the 240z, 280z etc have 53" track width for the wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface (WMS-WMS) (if anyone knows otherwise, let me know, I haven't actually measured my Z yet). I measured the Mark VIII setup on my garage floor prior to disassembly, and it was approximately 62.5" WMS-WMS. 

 

I'll upload my axle sketch for the stock axles sometime for future reference.  If the above measurements are correct, I need a center shaft that's 5" shorter than the stock Mark VIII shafts.

[yellowoctupus]

This is a great little 'truth be told' guide explaining which parts were 28spline, 31 etc.

 

http://www.venomxs.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=63:irswillfit&catid=44:my-ffr-mkiii-venom-xs-roadster-project&Itemid=54

 

Added a sweet Xref sheet for CVs.  Doesn't directly have the inner axle shaft info I need, but it might be good enough for narrowing down some guesses.

 

http://interparts.com/download.htm

 

PS.  The link isn't directly a download, its just the page you can download the files from as a PDF.

Edited December 1, 2015 by yellowoctupus

[LMoore56]

That's pretty good stuff, and it's good to know. 

[yellowoctupus]

So, two things I've given some thought to for other Mod Motor swappers:

 

1.  SOHC F150 Exhaust Manifolds for SOHC Mustang engine guys.  The passenger side at least, I think has a much easier exit direction than the Mustang's manifolds. The Mustang manifold turns directly into the pocket created by the firewall, inner fender and frame rail (see earlier posts for pictures of my exhaust). (stock photos below courtesy RockAuto)  PS.  The stock drivers side Mustang manifold worked fine for me.  I wouldn't bother looking into changing it.

 

 

 

2.  Mark VIII motor mounts look like they'd bolt directly up to the SBF style mount that's used by Brian Laine etc over the years (single through bolt from isolator to engine cradle.  These mounts should bolt up to either the SOHC or DOHC platforms.  (Ie, I have SOHC Mustang mounts on my DOHC Mark VIII engine, but would do it with the Mark VIII mounts next time for the SBF style mounts, and much cleaner looking cradle design.)

 

 

Edited July 23, 2017 by yellowoctupus

[yellowoctupus]

I got a 240z back half yesterday to mock up the 8.8 stuff in.  Rayaapp2 told me there's roughly 2" different between the 240z and 280z chassis as far as strut tower height is concerned, which is noted, and of course I have a R200 mustache bar in my '78 and a R180 in the '71 back half.  Otherwise, I think this half car will be invaluable for mocking everything up, and making all of my suspension parts.  I'm thinking of using a '90's to 2000's Mustang front strut, as it has a two bolt mount (to the spindle/hub assembly) and should work on my adapter plates from the Mark VIII hubs. 

 

In similar news, I now have a supercharger to work with, and my intercooler parts are on their way too!  I have an older Autorotor (Kenne Bell, Lysholm, Whipple etc) that's in pretty good shape.  It's an OA3150, which is a 1.5L, so it's a little on the small side, but it's what came on the early Kenne Bell kits, and it's a good cheap place to start. It does need rear bearings, but they look very easy to replace.  I can't imagine any part of this SC is difficult to repair.  They're pretty simple. 

 

The intercoolers I have are from a company called Laminova, and they're a bit different than the standard 'radiator' looking air to air or liquid to air intercoolers.  These are liquid cooled, but they have a bajillion (yes, I counted) annular cooling fins, and you force your air around the outside of the tubes.  They're supposed to be VERY effieient, and they're in OEMS like the Cobalt SS, Cadillac STS, Camaro SS, supercharger kits.  (Among a bunch of others....)

 

Here's a few pictures of the cores and their uses.  I recommend you look into this link too, if you're curious about how they work past my brief post here:

 

http://97.74.32.155/files/intercool.pdf

 

NSX intake mounted cooler setup from Science of Speed (defunct?).

 

 

Clearances available.  It's VERY tight to get this all under the hood.  7.5" from the heads to touching the hood.  5" between heads.  4" below intake mounting surface (if I had chosen to run a cobra style intercooler. 

 

 

 

 

Here's some examples of the Cobra setups, Eaton Lower, KB upper (unit looks very similar to mine): 

 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2017 by yellowoctupus

[1969honda]

Love the supercharger and intercooler ideas. I've been looking into the laminova idea as well to put a m122 onto a Nissan vk56de. I hadn't thought of blowing sideways to the ports, interested to see how it works for you.

 

I have a wider valley but can't go down from the cylinder head mounting flange due to a valley mounted starter and coolant pipes. Not 100% sure on my vertical as I forgot to measure the engine height when I had it sitting between the rails last.