Buying a Z, New to the forums

[Tspite]

Hey guys Im new to the forums, my name is Tommy and Im 19. Im about to get into College and its time for me to buy another car. I drove a chevy Lumina for 4 years and now I use it mainly for work (I pizza deliver). Ive always loved Nissan cars and even purchased a 240sx shell and motor to get into the "drift" craze but ended up ditchen that because I didnt feel like spending a whole lot of money on it and find myself in a pit financially. tires, gas more tires engine mods suspension etc. Im getn into college and shouldnt be worring bout that right now.

 

I got out of drifting and now looking for another car, I was thinkn bout savn up for a 300zx but I also thought bout getn lucky and trieing to find a first generation Z model. I absolutly love s30s more than in other car next to the skyline. I grew up watchn initial d then eventually wangan midnight as well. Kinda where the Z love started.

 

I do plan on restoring it with my dad to maybe a 240z. It be hard since the rear end mountings are different but heard it can be done.

 

But all im really asking is if the Z gurus can give me suggestions and some input bout the car I may buy. It be very appreciative! Sorry for the long intro.

 

Here we go:

 

Its a 1976 Datsun 280z. he wants $1,800 for it, lil rust but not bad, Im jus concerned bout the floor pans.

 

[19762802+2]

because I didnt feel like spending a whole lot of money on it and find myself in a pit financially.

 

 

Sorry to say but you probably shouldn't buy a Z then unless you plan on keeping it stock and not doing much of anything to it. I have owned my Z about 5 years now I'm about $4000 into it (still haven't driven it) and I have another $3000 till where I want to be and maybe a $1000 till its road worthy and good to start driving. I'm keeping my stock engine as well, I know for the guy's that decide to swap motors it can add up to even more over time. If you just want it as a beater and keep it stock with a few little things it should be fine, but otherwise they are just as big a money pit.

[z2go]

The older the car, the bigger money pit. That car might look OK on the surface, but I can tell you now... that rust, if you are going to tackle it CORRECTLY, will prove to be a huge project, cost thousands of dollars, hundreds of man hours, both things that a college student does not have. This might sound crappy right now, but save yourself some heartache and if you need a car, buy a newer (less than 10 year old) reliable car, and play with it a little bit until you are more financially prepared for a Z. Most guys who care enough to take care of their Z's will tell you, it costs more than the monthly payments on a new car to keep a Z like that on the road. Think of what you see as an iceberg... anywhere the paint is bubbling means that the metal is so far gone, that it has come in from the other side and eaten a huge hole. Who knows where else the rust has gone.

 

Take it from a guy who has owned several Z's, one that I had to scrap completely because, like this one, it looked manageable at first. I started looking in to things, and it was like Pandora's Box. I ended up stripping what useful parts I could from it, and gave the shell to a wrecker. I was out more than $3000, and the car looked better than this one.

 

If you really want a Z, and want to have fun with it, look at spending at least around $6000 on it initially (guys, help me out on this baseline price, it's been a while since I seriously priced a Z). What you save initially on a cheap $1800 car will come to bite you a month later when things start to fail.

[Tspite]

This is exactly what I was worried about. And thank you guys for the input. The car actually runs really well and has suprisingly lower mileage. And the options were to get a clean shell (if lucky) or save up for one in great shape. I understand what you guys say and I completly agree. I know Im young and impatient lol But I did plan on putn alot of time into it when I did have the time with my dad to try and restore it after school. My father has alot of fabrication skills and his gf's dad has his own paint equipment and garage setup for it. So thats why i was considering it. Im in a family with experience and my dad is well off. But my parents are divorced and I actually will be getn grants for school. The money part was because I may be moving out and in with a roomate by the end of summer. But its something I wanted to drive till it got into restoration stages.

 

By no means am I looking to make it nice anytime soon. But I have also thought about just saving up for a nice 240z instead. So maybe Ill just have to be patient.

[Pharaohabq]

Yeah, That's the right attitude..

 

A Z can be a lot of fun, I've had 7 myself. Sold 3, wrecked one, junked one, daily drive one, and am swapping a VQ into the current project. You gotta love them to stick with it.

 

Rust is a Major issue, 85% of the cars that are resonable priced have a good amount of rust. These carsd are 40 years old so it's not so suprising. You don't have to spend 1000's of $ to keep a Z running. Once you find a halfway decent one, you gotta just keep the maint up. (I drove my 2nd Z to deliver pizza, I know pizza delivery beats the hell outta your car. If you're going to need your car for that, buy a Jeep. MUCH better suspension) Read on this site about the areas that rust in Z's..

 

$1800 is probably too much for that 280Z. I paid 300 for mine, non-running but no rust, but I got a deal, I woulda paid $1000 easy for it. Running is not so important, it's finding one that doesn't need a lot of body work that's important. Engines are readily availible, even Turbo L28ET swaps. so don't worry too much about Running. I can rebuild an L28 in a weekend, if I've got the parts around. Autozone oreily's and other autoparts stores carry most of that. But fixing Body rust is a lot harder and time consuming. If not done well it can just rust and bubble out again. So really it's up to you, but you gotta know what you're getting into ahead of time.

 

Sure you can replace body panels, and floor pans, if you feel comfortable with that, then all the power to you. It's knowing what's going to take too much of your time, and what your own skills are able to handle is what you really need to consider. Not to mention how much time you'll have to work on it once the bloom is off the rose so to speak. My current project has been going on a little more than a year. Some of these other guys have 3-4 years on their cars that things have been torn apart. Some people have plenty of time and knock out amazing work in a short amount of time.

 

Just keep this in mind:

 

 

Oh and take a flat blade screwdriver and see if you can easily dent or push a hole through the floorpans, that'll tell you if they need replaced or not. It might be all surface rust, but looking at the picts I'm not convinced.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Pharaohabq

[Tspite]

Yeah, That's the right attitude..

 

A Z can be a lot of fun, I've had 7 myself. Sold 3, wrecked one, junked one, daily drive one, and am swapping a VQ into the current project. You gotta love them to stick with it.

 

Rust is a Major issue, 85% of the cars that are resonable priced have a good amount of rust. These carsd are 40 years old so it's not so suprising. You don't have to spend 1000's of $ to keep a Z running. Once you find a halfway decent one, you gotta just keep the maint up. (I drove my 2nd Z to deliver pizza, I know pizza delivery beats the hell outta your car. If you're going to need your car for that, buy a Jeep. MUCH better suspension) Read on this site about the areas that rust in Z's..

 

$1800 is probably too much for that 280Z. I paid 300 for mine, non-running but no rust, but I got a deal, I woulda paid $1000 easy for it. Running is not so important, it's finding one that doesn't need a lot of body work that's important. Engines are readily availible, even Turbo L28ET swaps. so don't worry too much about Running. I can rebuild an L28 in a weekend, if I've got the parts around. Autozone oreily's and other autoparts stores carry most of that. But fixing Body rust is a lot harder and time consuming. If not done well it can just rust and bubble out again. So really it's up to you, but you gotta know what you're getting into ahead of time.

 

Sure you can replace body panels, and floor pans, if you feel comfortable with that, then all the power to you. It's knowing what's going to take too much of your time, and what your own skills are able to handle is what you really need to consider. Not to mention how much time you'll have to work on it once the bloom is off the rose so to speak. My current project has been going on a little more than a year. Some of these other guys have 3-4 years on their cars that things have been torn apart. Some people have plenty of time and knock out amazing work in a short amount of time.

 

Just keep this in mind:

 

 

Oh and take a flat blade screwdriver and see if you can easily dent or push a hole through the floorpans, that'll tell you if they need replaced or not. It might be all surface rust, but looking at the picts I'm not convinced.

Ya I know what ya mean. ive been doing some reading on here and rust is def one of those things. I do want to buy one. If anything I could buy this one and then try and find a clean shell and swap the motor in etc. I wish i could find a good 240z. I found some on ebay for 6000 to 8000 to even 23,000(something like that). Pretty crazy but some of them are rediculously restored and moddified.

 

And Vq huh? thats gonna be pretty bad ass. Vh45de wouldnt be bad either, I mean if you dont mind going V8. But the Vq is sure sexy

Edited February 18, 2011 by Tspite

[roger.svoboda]

the s30 are expensive. you can get an s130 in better shape for less money. the z31 turbos are around and cheap. Depends on what you like for looks. offered my son a free 81 turbo but he declined because he didn't like the long hood. gave him my 85T when he finally produced a BA degree and he loves it. I love the long hood on the s130 but I was a kid when the Jag XKE was a neato car. z32 is the prettiest of the last century z's and you can find one cheap if you look long enough.

[stravi757]

Ya man, like everyone says. The rust can be a bigger deal then you think at first. Get under the car and look at the floor pans, and more importantly the frame rails. And like stated before, buying a Z because its running is foolish to be the main deciding factor if your going to buy it or not IMO. The body is the most important thing. I say just be patient, and keep looking until you find a really good deal.

 

And dont get stuck on a 240z. I would buy my Z based on what the smog laws are in your area and the condition of the body. All three models are fine and you can make a 260z or 280z look like a 240z without doing much.

[z2go]

Keep this in mind, when looking at ads for cars. This should help you translate what someone says about a Z, and what is really going on.

 

If they say there is no rust, there is some rust, just not on the outside, affecting paint. YET.

 

If they say there is very little rust, there is some rust that needs to be repaired to make the car visually and mechanically 100%... expect paint, body work, welding, etc.

 

If they say there is some rust, and there's a picture of it, expect this to be your main concern.

 

If they say anything about rust being a problem, forget it. Unless that car has sentimental value to you, or is a serious collector (i.e., JFK owned it, or it's number 2 off the line), the body is probably too far gone.

 

The reason I say this, is because of the unibody construction of the car, you can't just pull a shell off of the frame and substitute one for another. It's a huge PITA to fix a big giant rust bucket.

 

And like everyone has said, if you have a car that needs engine work, that's a whole lot easier and cheaper than a car that needs body work.

[Snailed]

This is all good advice.

 

 

I do rust repair and panel fabrication as a job and I can pretty much count on the rust damage being at least twice as bad as it looks. Some places that rust out on the s30 are areas that you won't even know are bad until you cut off the panel covering it. Same goes for cars that have been repaired. Most body shops can shape filler pretty well so there is no way to know what they are covering up until you take it apart. On a car like a 240z it's pretty likely the paint/rust was touched up or "fixed" already.

[Tennesseejed]

Tspite, let me offer the contrarion point of view.

 

Buy the car and drive the piss out of it.

 

You are 19 and going to college. Your disposable income over the next few years is likely going to be ZERO.

 

The S30 is a beautiful chassis and will pull many gals (unless you swing from the other side of the plate - NNTIAWWT).

 

Do not buy this car as a rebuilding project. Buy this car because its cool and very fun to drive. If the outer rust is offensive, sand it down, primer it and hand paint some yellow in it.

 

You obviously know something about cars, so find out if the engine runs well. And if it does, buy it, drive it to college, and then buy a car that you really want to restore after you have a degree and are making a living in either profession or industry. Do not look at buying this car with an eye for what it could be because you probably can not afford to make it what you want it to be.

 

My .02.

[Tspite]

Tspite, let me offer the contrarion point of view.

 

Buy the car and drive the piss out of it.

 

You are 19 and going to college. Your disposable income over the next few years is likely going to be ZERO.

 

The S30 is a beautiful chassis and will pull many gals (unless you swing from the other side of the plate - NNTIAWWT).

 

Do not buy this car as a rebuilding project. Buy this car because its cool and very fun to drive. If the outer rust is offensive, sand it down, primer it and hand paint some yellow in it.

 

You obviously know something about cars, so find out if the engine runs well. And if it does, buy it, drive it to college, and then buy a car that you really want to restore after you have a degree and are making a living in either profession or industry. Do not look at buying this car with an eye for what it could be because you probably can not afford to make it what you want it to be.

 

My .02.

That was what I was planning on doing. If I buy it it wont be for restoration. I think it be a fine car for college and a starter Z. A Z to get use too and learn from it while driving.

 

Im debating on it or just saving up for a 300zx twin turbo but I bet it would be killer on insurance. Im a 19 year old with a perfect driving record. State Farm wanted 150 for my lumina and a 1989 Nissan 240sx. Does anyone know what it might be for this Z?

 

And thanks for the input.

[ModernS30]

Just so everybody knows. I am 18, in high school, shortly going to be in college. I work a part time job, I have built my S30 from the ground up. I have a 3.6 in school, not very much money, and I still managed. It takes time but with the passion and will power it will work out. I challenge the needing lots of money to build a car. It's call ingenuity. Don't just pay somebody for something when they say that is what they want. Can't find it at the price you want to pay? Make it for less. At least that works for me.

[stravi757]

Just so everybody knows. I am 18, in high school, shortly going to be in college. I work a part time job, I have built my S30 from the ground up. I have a 3.6 in school, not very much money, and I still managed. It takes time but with the passion and will power it will work out. I challenge the needing lots of money to build a car. It's call ingenuity. Don't just pay somebody for something when they say that is what they want. Can't find it at the price you want to pay? Make it for less. At least that works for me.

 

Im sorry, but Wtf are you even talking about. How is this relevant in helping him with making a decision in buying this car. The first 4 sentences you wrote could have been mistaken for spam, that's how worthless it looks.

 

What does your age, GPA, part time job, and ability to make parts have anything to do with this guy in his situation. This is a useless post, and to me looks like some act to draw attention to yourself.

[ModernS30]

Im sorry, but Wtf are you even talking about. How is this relevant in helping him with making a decision in buying this car. The first 4 sentences you wrote could have been mistaken for spam, that's how worthless it looks.

 

What does your age, GPA, part time job, and ability to make parts have anything to do with this guy in his situation. This is a useless post, and to me looks like some act to draw attention to yourself.

 

 

Uhm, thanks for reading a post just a few above mine.

 

Tennesseejed, "You are 19 and going to college. Your disposable income over the next few years is likely going to be ZERO."

 

No need to draw attention to myself. Many people have seen my build thread. I could honestly give half a flying Fig Newton about attention.

[Pharaohabq]

Now if it was half a flying strawberry newton I'd be more interrested... But really, ModernS30's post was valid, he was merely pointing out the fact that S30 restoration CAN be done at a young age and without too much money. By drawing a comparison between himself and the OP he'd accomplished that easilly without paragraphs of explanation.

 

TennesseeJed, If you want a Z, and it looks like a decent deal on the body, then make an offer, worst they can say is no. If it doesn't run, then it's a good Discount opportunity. (not to mention upgrade opportunity later) As for insurance, Liability is going to be your #1 expense. If you can get on your parents insurance, you'll keep a little cheaper due to the multi-line aspect. As for full coverage, DON'T go through normal insurance, You'd likely be paying a lot for something they'd total for less than your deductible. Call up a company like Hagarty (state farm classic/custom car insurance) and see what kind of a deal you can get on an agreed upon value policy. (This means you'll have to get an appraisal and possibly have a miliage limit) You'll get a much better coverage for real value, rather than arbitrary junker value. It's Cheap too, much cheaper than standard comprehensive.

 

Try the screwdriver test on the rust. Replacing the pans isn't as bad as you might think, you just need to be able to weld halfway decently. The pans can be made or purchased and the Bad dog rails are pretty easy to install. I good grinder with a wire brush, safty equip and a can of primer will pause a lot of rust till you can get into real repairs. Who knows, you could take Autobody classes in college too, to get not only a place to work on the car, but free materials and guidance in fixing it right. One of the best things you have is time...

 

Phar

Edited February 21, 2011 by Pharaohabq

[stravi757]

Uhm, thanks for reading a post just a few above mine.

 

Tennesseejed, "You are 19 and going to college. Your disposable income over the next few years is likely going to be ZERO."

 

No need to draw attention to myself. Many people have seen my build thread. I could honestly give half a flying Fig Newton about attention.

 

My bad, didnt see that part.

[dangerboy]

Buy it, drive it, then if the day comes you're eating mustard sandwhiches sell the dash and door panels. Also, some people learn how to fix things by breaking them and what better car to break things on than one "too far gone". I have a 260 shell i'm keeping around just to practice welding on. Whatever your decision, good luck with it and enjoy!

[rednekz]

The screwdriver test is good for rust, but also bring a magnet to find any filler (bondo).