How many feet of SS fuel lines would be adequate?

[dpuma8]

I am really interested in redoing my fuel system since my car bogged a bunch (I am guessing clogged lines with rust). I read the FAQ about running a lower pressure pump into a surge tank and then having the Walbro feed the injectors.

So when replacing the lines for those who have done it, what did you buy to complete this project?

How many feet of SS braided fuel lines did you get?

Where did you get a surge tank and where did you mount it?

Can it be mounted in the engine bay?

Should I replace the hard lines?

How did you wire two pumps to work? Wire size? Will this work with the L28et ECU?

 

Any other pointers?

[BluDestiny]

you can buy or make your own surge tank. I rememebr reading a post about someone here who made it out of plumbers pipe and people thought it was a bomb

 

Replace your hardlines if they are too small to support your hp goals.

 

You CAN wire the pumps to a switch, like a fuel cut off switch. Probably can't get it to work with the stock ECU.

[rjstcroix]

Hey,

 

I haven't been so fortunate to get the jump on some of our more senior members/adminstrators as I have on this occassion. Maybe its one of their off days considering the holiday weekend. I'll play admin for a moment, please endulge me.

 

That said, here's pointer #1, the only one you'll ever need while on this site:

 

SEARCH!

 

Its been done many times over.

 

(Sorry, just had to do it man.)

 

Now you got me feelin' like an asshat so I'll throw you a bone:

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/56983-heres-an-easy-to-make-surge-tank/

 

Tony D, J Coffey, RTZ, BRAAP, et. al., you're welcome. ;o

 

Happy Easter.

 

Regards,

 

RSC

Edited April 22, 2011 by rjstcroix

[dpuma8]

I did search. Not only do I search this site, I search other Z car sites as well. I am not real handy at making surge tanks from items in the garage. I was hoping that someone bought one somewhere that was adequate enough.

 

I still can't find the answers to my questions so I still don't know how to wire it, how many feet of line I should get, or if it will work with my stock ECU.

 

So if possible without pissing anyone off, can I please get a little help?

Edited April 22, 2011 by dpuma8

[Tony D]

If you get around your local tubing supplier, a single stick (20') should be more than enough. My suggestion is to make it in three parts:

The firewall forward (engine bay)

Under the car from Firewall to Differential Front Crossmember (Don't forget the heavy pipe over the tubing in the plane of rotation of the flywheel/clutch disc)

The Differential Crossmember rearward (rear section)

 

This will allow you to do the complex bending of each end without worrying about screwing up the under car portion (this can get complex... and that last bend always seems to make it go the wrong way and then...SHITE!) Plus, if you change configuration on the engine bay, or the fuel pump feed section you only need to replace a small section. Swagelock makes nice tube-to-tube connectors (they are not cheap) for joining them in a permanent fashion, and you can use whatever you want on the ends for tubing to flexibles...

 

I seem to remember I went through this recently... I know JeffP liked the idea pretty well... He bent a few wrong bends there and if you do that as well... you will need 'more' than a 20 foot stick.

 

0.500"X0.035" Wall Feed

0.375"X0.035" Wall Feed (or Return),

0.250"X0.035" Wall Return

 

This is commonly stocked and a popular industrial size. They do have thinner wall stuff, but it's not so commonly stocked. The heavier wall stuff is a PITA to bend, and tremendous overkill! You don't need anything heavier than these wall thicknesses, and even this is overkill. That stuff is good for thousands of PSI!

[TimZ]

If you get around your local tubing supplier, a single stick (20') should be more than enough. My suggestion is to make it in three parts:

The firewall forward (engine bay)

Under the car from Firewall to Differential Front Crossmember (Don't forget the heavy pipe over the tubing in the plane of rotation of the flywheel/clutch disc)

The Differential Crossmember rearward (rear section)

 

This will allow you to do the complex bending of each end without worrying about screwing up the under car portion (this can get complex... and that last bend always seems to make it go the wrong way and then...SHITE!) Plus, if you change configuration on the engine bay, or the fuel pump feed section you only need to replace a small section. Swagelock makes nice tube-to-tube connectors (they are not cheap) for joining them in a permanent fashion, and you can use whatever you want on the ends for tubing to flexibles...

 

I seem to remember I went through this recently... I know JeffP liked the idea pretty well... He bent a few wrong bends there and if you do that as well... you will need 'more' than a 20 foot stick.

 

0.500"X0.035" Wall Feed

0.375"X0.035" Wall Feed (or Return),

0.250"X0.035" Wall Return

 

This is commonly stocked and a popular industrial size. They do have thinner wall stuff, but it's not so commonly stocked. The heavier wall stuff is a PITA to bend, and tremendous overkill! You don't need anything heavier than these wall thicknesses, and even this is overkill. That stuff is good for thousands of PSI!

 

Please note that Tony is talking about SS HARD LINES here, not braided hose. As Tony is suggesting, use hard lines for running from the back to the front, and only use flexible lines to connect the hard lines to things that can move or vibrate with respect to the body or each other, like between the tanks (if you use a surge tank), tank to pump, pump to hard line, hard line to engine, etc. Basically just use the flexible stuff for the interconnects.

 

You'll also want to use tube nuts and flare the ends so you use a proper bulkhead fitting for the interconnects.

 

Hose sizes for the interconnects should be (minimum) -8 for the .500" hard line size, -6 for the .375" and -4 for the .250". Tube nut sizes should be the same, but I'm not familiar with the actual dimensions of that tubing, so the supplier should be able to get you the right sizes.

 

Also, after having used stainless braided hose for years, I have become a much bigger fan of the nomex braided hose (Aeroquip Startlite, Earl's ProLite, etc). This stuff is much lighter, has plenty of pressure capacity, uses the same AN hose ends, won't destroy anything it touches, and won't start a fire if you drop a wrench across it and the starter terminal. Plus its much easier to work with and it won't prick your fingers while you're tryng to assemble it!

[h4nsm0l3m4n]

I chose to use a BC broncos "fuel accumulator" (http://www.bcbroncos.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=131_108&products_id=1355) as a surge tank instead of building my own. It was cheap and it seems to work great. It has a mounting flange so its only a matter of drilling a few holes to mount it.

 

I think you can pretty much mount a surge tank anywhere you want its just a matter of how youre going to route fuel lines and place your fuel pumps. I mounted everything near the stock pump location, this seemed to simplify things a bit.

[Cannonball89]

I chose to use a BC broncos "fuel accumulator" (http://www.bcbroncos.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=131_108&products_id=1355) as a surge tank instead of building my own. It was cheap and it seems to work great. It has a mounting flange so its only a matter of drilling a few holes to mount it. I think you can pretty much mount a surge tank anywhere you want its just a matter of how youre going to route fuel lines and place your fuel pumps. I mounted everything near the stock pump location, this seemed to simplify things a bit.

 

That "fuel accumulator" looks like nothing more than a remote oil filter adapter.

[h4nsm0l3m4n]

That "fuel accumulator" looks like nothing more than a remote oil filter adapter.

 

I never really thought about it but youre right, I knew those things looked familiar haha! It looks like they drilled an extra hole for the return line though. There is a little pick up tube inside the filter as well. It just extends to the bottom of the filter to make sure the high pressure pump never sucks in any air... not sure of the remote oil filter kits have those or not. In any case it seems like one could make a functioning surge tank really cheap by buying one of those remote oil filter mounts and modifying it slightly to work.

Edited April 23, 2011 by h4nsm0l3m4n

[rjstcroix]

Agree with TimZ. Although a little heavier than the nomex we used braided stainless FI hose on our rally car. But I will vouch for the needly, prickly nature of working with braided stainless. Wrap some electrical tape around your section then cut to length and it comes out neater. Oh and WEAR LEATHER GLOVES! Stainless splinters are no fun.

 

Availability, ease of installation, cost, ability to take some damage and not crush/break were our considerations since we can have anything happen on the rally we run. White picket fences seem to attract rally cars like magnets for some reason. ;o) Ditches, lakes, ponds, bogs, forests, cliff sides and the Atlantic Ocean are our run-out areas so we've got other special considerations as well.

 

We also installed a surge tank, and made both the feed and return the same I.D. so we could swap either over for feed in the event of damage (redundancy factor).

 

-6AN feed and return lines (to/fro surge tank/bulk head fittings) and -8AN under the hood from the surge tank to the pump.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

RSC

Edited April 23, 2011 by rjstcroix

[Tony D]

I chose to use a BC broncos "fuel accumulator" (http://www.bcbroncos.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=131_108&products_id=1355) as a surge tank instead of building my own. It was cheap and it seems to work great. It has a mounting flange so its only a matter of drilling a few holes to mount it.

 

 

One of the quick-n-dirty methods of making a surge tank is to take one from a later model Bronco. That setup is basically the same thing that is on the inner frame rail of any later model Bronco II --- but with a bit more capacity and a fuel filter to boot. "Accumulator" is a poor choice of words from a technical standpoint when dealing with a fuel system---generally an 'accumulator' will have a diaphragm in it to soften/smooth out pulsations on the pressure side of the system from fuel pump or injector pulses. Make no mistake, this 'accumulator' is a surge tank.

 

For the cost, that's actually a nice deal---if they have a longer filter for more capacity that would make a REAL nice setup! I'd reconsider mine out back with a longer filter. I may have to get one for dissection, I can get these filter units from one of our vendors for our compressors...nice adaptation of an existing product for a surge tank (better than the aquarium filter IMO...but in the same 'neat' vein!)

[DCZ]

Okay, I'll spoon-feed just this once

 

Accumulator Filter 1qt long version