AtlantaZ Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I'd very much like to hear from our resident experts. After several months of building this engine: http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/95992-another-s30-turbo-project/page__p__902552__fromsearch__1#entry902552 , I can't get it to start! Here's my basic setup: Rebuilt L28ET, stock bottom end 440cc Supra Turbo low-impedance injectors on custom fuel rail Walbro GSL392 fuel pump Megasquirt II V3.0 with DIYAutotune relay board EDIS-6 with Ford coil pack and 36-1 trigger wheel using a Ford VR sensor Wiring: Tapped ignition Run/Crank wire (black w/white, used to go to ignition coil) to feed a terminal block that distributes switched 12V power to the alternator exciter wire, Megasquirt switched 12V input, and EDIS/coil pack 12V switched inputs. Not currently using capacitors anywhere on the system. Starter: Good. Engine is rotating. Fuel system: Walbro is wired to a 30amp automotive relay, triggered by the Megasquirt relay board's "Fuel Pump" terminal. Pump primes just fine when I turn ignition to "run" position. Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator gauge shows ~55psi on the rail with engine cranking. Ignition system: Pulled plugs and laid on valve cover. All six plugs fired like a Pink Floyd light show. So the coil pack is sending spark. Timing: Haven't tried a timing light yet, but I installed the timing chain with the damper pointer squarely on the "0" degree marker, and the bright link in the chain on the cam sprocket tooth with the punch mark. I installed Derek's toothed wheel in what I believe to be the correct orientation, as it has two drilled holes that line up with the damper removal holes on the crank damper. ECU: Loaded Megasquirt with cygnusx1's latest .MSQ, and all values look okay to me. Plugged into my laptop, and here's what the gauges/sensors show: RPM: Fluctuates between 100-200RPM when attempting crank. Seems to me that the VR sensor is reading okay. IAT & CLT: Showing ambient temperatures MAP: Shows 97kPa, even when attempting to crank. Should I be seeing this drop toward vacuum when cranking? TPS: Was working until about an hour ago, now it's showing me nothing. Will double check my wires. Pulsewidth & duty cycle: Both show zero...?? I expect to be smelling hog-rich fuel vapors as I attempt to crank this thing, but I'm smelling very little fuel. I suspect that there's a problem with the fuel injection, but I can't determine any obvious causes. Even if the ignition system is off-the-wall wrong, shouldn't I be surrounded by a cloud of raw gas fumes by now? I have attached a log file to this post. PLEASE help a fellow enthusiast get his beloved project running! It's hard to justify this sort of project with my dear wife when I have nothing to show for it (yet)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexter72 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I am not running edis but I still think you need to verify ignition timing when the engine is cranking over. Have you tried using starting fluid to get the engine started?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOZ UP Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Try putting a noid light on the injector harness. I bet that's your problem. Make sure injectors get +12v when running AND cranking. MAP should drop a little, but I wouldn't worry about that quite yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adimir Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 when you loaded the msq does it copy initial settings too? Cyngus is running high impedance injectors so pwm settings are way different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlantaZ Posted May 1, 2011 Author Share Posted May 1, 2011 I noticed that and am looking for the low impedance settings. Have any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddle Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) I noticed that and am looking for the low impedance settings. Have any suggestions? I used these setting with my low impedance 440cc injectors with resistors. Nigel<br><br>NOTE: this is incorrect info..<br> Edited May 2, 2011 by Noddle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOZ UP Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) Since you are using resistors, those settings are effectively "high impedance resistor" settings. They won't help if he has low-z injectors without resistors. Edited May 2, 2011 by BLOZ UP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlantaZ Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) I'm starting to run out of obvious things to check. Since I'm using EDIS, I assume that it should at least run in "limp home" mode if Megasquirt isn't sending it valid timing information... Now that I've properly calibrated the TPS, it's definitely moving fuel. It coughs and splutters up to about 400-500RPM, then gives up and goes back to a 100-200RPM cranking cycle. And the garage is now full of hazy bluish-white smoke. Edited May 2, 2011 by AtlantaZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddle Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) Since you are using resistors, those settings are effectively "high impedance resistor" settings. They won't help if he has low-z injectors without resistors. My bad, I assumed he was using resistors Nigel Edited May 2, 2011 by Noddle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlantaZ Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Here's my log file and Megasquirt settings video. I humbly ask for anyone with the time and inclination to give these a look and point out any glaring problems! After that, I'm down to troubleshooting the timing. And I don't know how to do that without a lot of work... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Hsea8pgQdU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlantaZ Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Update: Will now hold a rough idle at ~500RPM The only thing I changed was unplugging and reconnecting the spark plug wires, and now I can get it to crank almost immediately and hold a 500RPM idle. However, when I step on the gas and feed it any air at all, the engine goes dead. So I can get it to idle-barely-but can't get it to throttle up at all! What do I adjust next? Also, I discovered that my upgraded 280zx alternator apparently needs a diode in the exciter circuit, as I can't kill it by turning off the ignition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlantaZ Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Another dumb question: do I need to turn on "tacho output" in Megasquirt to send timing info to the EDIS ignition module? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 If it runs at 500rpms at all, then you do have spark, fuel, and compression. Now you need to bust out a timing light and watch the crank pulley while someone keeps the car running. If you don't see the timing mark, mess with the trigger offset in MS "+ and -" until you see the timing mark on the pulley. Then just put it at around 20-27 deg BTDC at idle by fudging offset numbers, trial and error. Make sure your firing order is correct, and make sure your injector banks are on the correct cylinders. My map alternates banks if I recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirkland1980 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) I also learned that the trigger offset has to be a positive number and should be less than 20 degrees. If not you'll have to adjust the sensor. Edited May 2, 2011 by skirkland1980 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddle Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 If it runs at 500rpms at all, then you do have spark, fuel, and compression. Now you need to bust out a timing light and watch the crank pulley while someone keeps the car running. If you don't see the timing mark, mess with the trigger offset in MS "+ and -" until you see the timing mark on the pulley. Then just put it at around 20-27 deg BTDC at idle by fudging offset numbers, trial and error. Make sure your firing order is correct, and make sure your injector banks are on the correct cylinders. My map alternates banks if I recall. don't forget, the timing at the pulley need to match up to the timing you have set in MS (for that RPM), so if MS is set to 10 or 20 or what every you want it to be, the pulley needs to be the same, if it's not, use the + or - in the trigger offset setting to make them the same. Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlantaZ Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 It sounds like I need to buy or borrow a timing light. I never have adjusted timing before... what number or setting in MS am I adjusting? And how do I know when it's right? Finally, I assume I need to mark the damper timing mark with white paint or something...? And since I am using Derek's VR bracket, I may have to take the bracket off, mark TDC some other way, and continue from there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlantaZ Posted May 8, 2011 Author Share Posted May 8, 2011 When I try to use the Trigger Wizard in TunerStudio, it's grayed out. So I don't seem to have any way to adjust my base timing offset. I have tried playing with the trigger wheel offset under the ignition settings, but to no avail. I still can't get the engine to idle above 600RPM, and I can't get it to run for more than a minute or so. Any other ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlantaZ Posted May 9, 2011 Author Share Posted May 9, 2011 I also noticed that my fuel pressure regulator is currently reading 60psi, and I'm missing the 25uF capacitor on the coil pack 12V+ wire. Are either of these critical enough to cause my engine to not run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddle Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I also noticed that my fuel pressure regulator is currently reading 60psi, and I'm missing the 25uF capacitor on the coil pack 12V+ wire. Are either of these critical enough to cause my engine to not run? I run 40 psi ( give or take a little), 60 maybe a little high, and I'm not running the capacitor on the coil pack Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlantaZ Posted May 9, 2011 Author Share Posted May 9, 2011 I'll turn it down to 40psi once I have everything reconnected - thanks for feedback. But I'm still not sure how to set up my trigger offset, since the trigger wizard tool in TunerStudio is grayed out when I select EDIS as my ignition trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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