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240Z Pro-Touring Build


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#21 1969honda

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 05:26 PM

Impressive cruising RPMs!

#22 jpndave

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 05:27 PM

That's the beauty if that transmission with an engine that has a good powerband, it's always in the power up to way past where it will go. If I could muster a 200mph run it would be right at peak HP for the Voodoo. Not sure if 500 wheel HP would pull that off though. It would be fun to try - once anyway on the flats.

 

We should put one of these 8.8 diffs in your car. What ratio are you looking for?


Edited by jpndave, 24 May 2016 - 05:30 PM.

-73 240Z owned for 30yrs(my high school car). Dragged the old girl out from storage for a full makeover, Voodoo engine/T56 Magnum transmission/"Super 8.8", A-arm Suspension, Brakes, etc. http://forums.hybrid...-touring-build/

-2007 Jeep JK Unlimited "Bumblebee", LS3 (6.8L stroked, ported, VVT cammed)/6L80E/242AMG http://www.rme4x4.co...3-quot-GM-build

#23 1969honda

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 05:28 PM

I've decided it's the only way to go for gear selection and strength.

#24 jpndave

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 05:31 PM

I decided just to start over on the front and rear suspension. I need to completely replace front subframe and floors, just as well put what I want under there.


-73 240Z owned for 30yrs(my high school car). Dragged the old girl out from storage for a full makeover, Voodoo engine/T56 Magnum transmission/"Super 8.8", A-arm Suspension, Brakes, etc. http://forums.hybrid...-touring-build/

-2007 Jeep JK Unlimited "Bumblebee", LS3 (6.8L stroked, ported, VVT cammed)/6L80E/242AMG http://www.rme4x4.co...3-quot-GM-build

#25 jpndave

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 05:34 PM

I've decided it's the only way to go for gear selection and strength.

Look at the ears on that diff, mounting it under the Z is going to be a whole lot easier than the other style. Plenty of meat to avoid the thing climbing around under the car. They run 34 spline inners stock. Mustang upgrades are all over the place and honestly, the stock parts with shortened shafts should be plenty strong for the 1000-1500lb lighter Z cars. If you are ok with an iron main housing, 3.31 gears and a limited slip I can get one for a great deal for you!


Edited by jpndave, 24 May 2016 - 05:37 PM.

-73 240Z owned for 30yrs(my high school car). Dragged the old girl out from storage for a full makeover, Voodoo engine/T56 Magnum transmission/"Super 8.8", A-arm Suspension, Brakes, etc. http://forums.hybrid...-touring-build/

-2007 Jeep JK Unlimited "Bumblebee", LS3 (6.8L stroked, ported, VVT cammed)/6L80E/242AMG http://www.rme4x4.co...3-quot-GM-build

#26 1969honda

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 05:36 PM

Yup, the more I've looked at my options the better the 8.8 looks for strength, initial cost, replacement parts and gear selection

Edited by 1969honda, 24 May 2016 - 05:41 PM.


#27 1969honda

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 05:43 PM

I'm all ears, 3.31 wouldn't be too bad with a CD009 and it's 3.79 first gear

#28 jpndave

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 05:45 PM

Just as well build 2 mount setups as 1. I'll see if I can lock down the second diff, I can always sell it if it doesn't work out.


Edited by jpndave, 24 May 2016 - 05:50 PM.

-73 240Z owned for 30yrs(my high school car). Dragged the old girl out from storage for a full makeover, Voodoo engine/T56 Magnum transmission/"Super 8.8", A-arm Suspension, Brakes, etc. http://forums.hybrid...-touring-build/

-2007 Jeep JK Unlimited "Bumblebee", LS3 (6.8L stroked, ported, VVT cammed)/6L80E/242AMG http://www.rme4x4.co...3-quot-GM-build

#29 jpndave

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 05:50 PM

I'm all ears, 3.31 wouldn't be too bad with a CD009 and it's 3.79 first gear

I don't think you would want much lower than that or you'll just spin. I'm concerned I might be too low with the 3.73 rear and 2.97 first. You would end up with this (not sure what your power band would be like, best shift point).

Attached Files


-73 240Z owned for 30yrs(my high school car). Dragged the old girl out from storage for a full makeover, Voodoo engine/T56 Magnum transmission/"Super 8.8", A-arm Suspension, Brakes, etc. http://forums.hybrid...-touring-build/

-2007 Jeep JK Unlimited "Bumblebee", LS3 (6.8L stroked, ported, VVT cammed)/6L80E/242AMG http://www.rme4x4.co...3-quot-GM-build

#30 1969honda

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 05:53 PM

Yeah, I've went as far as to look at 3.08 gears

Edited by 1969honda, 24 May 2016 - 05:53 PM.


#31 Sirpent

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 07:18 PM

Well that was my dosage of "Z" Porn for the day.

 

I will be following this in the future!

 

Thanks jpndave  ^_^


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#32 jpndave

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 07:23 PM

Happy to oblige Sirpent. ;) Just wish it was more often/more progress faster. Labor of love though. I need to unload a few other projects so I can get my body parts coming from John Washington.

 

Snagged that 2nd rear so looks like we're building two sets of brackets!


-73 240Z owned for 30yrs(my high school car). Dragged the old girl out from storage for a full makeover, Voodoo engine/T56 Magnum transmission/"Super 8.8", A-arm Suspension, Brakes, etc. http://forums.hybrid...-touring-build/

-2007 Jeep JK Unlimited "Bumblebee", LS3 (6.8L stroked, ported, VVT cammed)/6L80E/242AMG http://www.rme4x4.co...3-quot-GM-build

#33 1969honda

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 07:24 PM

Sweet!

#34 Chris Duncan

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 11:22 PM

Looks like a very nice project. I really like the Tremec, both 5th and 6th are overdrive compared to most 6 speeds which 5th is not OD. So they have an engine with a narrow powerband and you are rowing more gears just to end up with the same OD as a 5 speed. With this much torque you don't need close gears and you might as well have double overdrive. I would go a little lower in the rear, sure you have a hookup problem but it would be more boot in the back. And with double OD a true highway car, you're going to be longing for an Autobahn to make use of it. What's your theoretical top speed?

 

There's some (unresolved?) controversy about using 4130 for a cage, something about welds being brittle. And the purpose of going with Chro-mo is to reduce weight, and since 1.5" x .096" DOM is up to racing specs for this weight of car, you could go the next size thinner in Chro-mo.

 

The a-arms conversion takes forever because this chassis is not set up for it. The GTRZ project I'm doing has a Skyline chassis clip in the front because it would just be too extensive to build all the mounts necessary.

 

The stock Z rack is a really nice piece, the earlier years had an aluminum gear case. If you do change it make sure what you're putting in is actually lighter and at least as quick of a ratio. There may be something out there better but I haven't found it.

 

I would put the chassis on the rotisserie from the start. You really have to be missing a lot of sheet metal before it moves from it's own weight. The two Z's I've recently done were both extensively rusted, complete rails, most of the pans and firewall parts. They didn't move at all with everything cut out at once. Make some measurements just to monitor things but you shouldn't have a problem.

 

Kudos on going the road less traveled on the engine, it's going to be different and it's going to be a screamer.


Edited by Chris Duncan, 24 May 2016 - 11:42 PM.


#35 jpndave

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 06:38 AM

Thanks for the reply Chris.

I don't dare go any lower in the rear and it is already starting to push economy at cruise. I don't think gearing will be a limitation on acceleration, should be traction limited even with sticky 295 tires. Top speed will be power limited with a teoetical of . 200mph would be at hp peak in 5th. The I am certain will be pushing it. Here we have several "legal" choices to use that speed. Salt flats are a few hours away. Road course at Miller Motorsportz Park about 1-1/2 hrs and the run outside Vegas as well as their track about 6hrs. I wouldn't mind just seeing what it will do at least once. Got to get it built first which is proving to be a very slow process.

4130 is stronger but definatly needs to be welded properly. I already have the tubing from an abandoned project. I'm also planning on 4130 in the supports, floors, suspension and scattershield for the tunnel. Trying to save weight wherever remotely practical while increasing strength. I have Miller 200DX TIG and 350P MIG to weld with. Proper prep, back purging and post weld normalizing will be in order.

I know the A-arms are adding some work but the end result is much superior and I'll regret it if I don't being as far down as I am on metal replacement now is the time. I'll take a look at your project for ideas there.

Stock rack is aluminum but I have two concerns with it: Width, It will need to match the suspension pickup points for bumpsteer, and Strength. We'll see how it matches up.

I really appreciate the comments on getting it on a rack. Been worried about that. One of the front rails is buckled and pushed slightly back. I think I need to get those sorted out first then up on the rotisserie. Not sure how to make a rotisserie work without the rails there unless I weld in a temporary support in the engine bay which might be a good idea actually.

I have seriously gone back and forth on the engine. I am intimately familiar with the LS family. That route would be cheaper and easier, no contest. Lighter than a Coyote (LS is ~430, Coyote ~444, heavier than Voodoo, no specific #s I have found overall but the crank alone more than makes up the difference). However, I love having a high revving exotic sounding engine in that car. The LS can be made to rev at an exponentially higher cost the higher you go. But, by camming it to do that you lose the smooth bottom end so at highway cruise it would be loping which doesn't work even using their VVT. My Jeep is right at the cam limit for keeping the cruise and it's more than 1000rpm off on the top end. There is no way to get an exotic BRAPP sound out of it, destinctive and cool? Yes! But not the same spine tingling sound. It would sound just like my 6.8 in the Jeep. Also, power delivery is much better to avoid wheelspin. Not quite as strong on the bottom but more on top, very progressive build of power and tons from about 4k to the 7200 peak and on up over 8200. Coyote will just be a stopgap if necessary.

I'm rambling, thanks again for your comments. I'll look into that suspension and rotisserie info.
-73 240Z owned for 30yrs(my high school car). Dragged the old girl out from storage for a full makeover, Voodoo engine/T56 Magnum transmission/"Super 8.8", A-arm Suspension, Brakes, etc. http://forums.hybrid...-touring-build/

-2007 Jeep JK Unlimited "Bumblebee", LS3 (6.8L stroked, ported, VVT cammed)/6L80E/242AMG http://www.rme4x4.co...3-quot-GM-build

#36 Chris Duncan

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 10:10 AM

Yeah, if you're going with custom suspension a custom sized rack may be in order. I am looking for another rack for the GTRZ because the Skyline is RHD and rear steer, as opposed to the Z rack which is front steer. Haven't found anything yet that is semi-affordable and has a quick ratio like the Z rack. Don't know if I want to pay $1000 for a rack when a Z rack goes for around $100. I'm going to maintain easy steering by taking out caster. If I do need power steering it's going to be electric at the column. Just way less clutter that way.

 

I've scratch built three twin a-arm suspensions and it takes longer than you think, especially if you want to really fine tune the handling. It can get complex and becomes sort of experimental. So you're not sure about the end result until you drive it.  Went a different route on the GTRZ just to save some time. Essentially bolting up the entire Skyline sub frame in the rear and the Skyline body clip and sub frame in the front. And if wanted later on can either duplicate the stock arms with tubing or get aftermarket tubing arms off the shelf. One thing that was nice about this was I lowered the car 1" just by lowering all the mount points on the chassis. As opposed to lowering by shortening the springs/struts which compromises geometry.

 

I bolted up to the bumper mounts when using the rotisserie.

 

Miller is a really nice track, wish it wasn't so far from here. And wondering about it's future since it was sold?


Edited by Chris Duncan, 25 May 2016 - 10:26 AM.


#37 jpndave

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 11:49 AM

You should be able to pick up a Sweet or similar rack off of eBay for a decent price. Just will take some patience to get the right ratio and width. That's the direction I'll go. I haven't nailed down all the geometries yet. Debating on hubs, etc. I'll probably use the late Mustang parts just because that will make the rear half-shafts easier and cheaper as well as a really common bolt pattern, brake availability, etc.


-73 240Z owned for 30yrs(my high school car). Dragged the old girl out from storage for a full makeover, Voodoo engine/T56 Magnum transmission/"Super 8.8", A-arm Suspension, Brakes, etc. http://forums.hybrid...-touring-build/

-2007 Jeep JK Unlimited "Bumblebee", LS3 (6.8L stroked, ported, VVT cammed)/6L80E/242AMG http://www.rme4x4.co...3-quot-GM-build

#38 jpndave

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 12:03 PM

Here is the column.

 

Attached Files


-73 240Z owned for 30yrs(my high school car). Dragged the old girl out from storage for a full makeover, Voodoo engine/T56 Magnum transmission/"Super 8.8", A-arm Suspension, Brakes, etc. http://forums.hybrid...-touring-build/

-2007 Jeep JK Unlimited "Bumblebee", LS3 (6.8L stroked, ported, VVT cammed)/6L80E/242AMG http://www.rme4x4.co...3-quot-GM-build

#39 jpndave

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 12:03 PM

And with some small mods, the factory controls bolt right on...

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-73 240Z owned for 30yrs(my high school car). Dragged the old girl out from storage for a full makeover, Voodoo engine/T56 Magnum transmission/"Super 8.8", A-arm Suspension, Brakes, etc. http://forums.hybrid...-touring-build/

-2007 Jeep JK Unlimited "Bumblebee", LS3 (6.8L stroked, ported, VVT cammed)/6L80E/242AMG http://www.rme4x4.co...3-quot-GM-build

#40 jpndave

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 12:05 PM

Brake and clutch master cylinders and balance bar. Not sure if I will use this or just buy a set of pedals, leaning towards the "buy pedals" option.

 

Attached Files


Edited by jpndave, 25 May 2016 - 12:06 PM.

-73 240Z owned for 30yrs(my high school car). Dragged the old girl out from storage for a full makeover, Voodoo engine/T56 Magnum transmission/"Super 8.8", A-arm Suspension, Brakes, etc. http://forums.hybrid...-touring-build/

-2007 Jeep JK Unlimited "Bumblebee", LS3 (6.8L stroked, ported, VVT cammed)/6L80E/242AMG http://www.rme4x4.co...3-quot-GM-build




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