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3.4 - 3.5 Liter Engine Build Thread


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#1 inline6

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 08:03 PM

Ok, it is time to start an engine build thread for my next engine.  My last engine blew up spectacularly at Road Atlanta.  Very disappointing.  This one will be off the well beaten path, so there will be risks.  

 

So, here we go... 

 

Block work is stalled for now, but the N42 head is getting some attention. Per the Frank Honsowetz book, the cylinder head was bolted upside down on a block with a spacer to pre-load (bend) the head.  The spacer used was 0.040".  The welding is not done - this is just the start - welding rod was 40/43 I think.  I will correct that if I find out differently. 

 

A few pics:

 

Attached File  100_1145.JPG   95.31KB   4 downloads

Attached File  100_1146.JPG   99.02KB   3 downloads

Attached File  100_1147.JPG   106.14KB   3 downloads

 

Engine block will be a LD28, either a specially sourced V57 casting (one Hybrid Z member claims he has one that took an 89 mm bore and left 0.120" or more of cylinder wall), or a one off, custom liner design will be utilized.

 

Garrett

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#2 clarkspeed

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 04:57 PM

No substitute for cubic inches!

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#3 Super X

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Posted 27 June 2016 - 07:51 PM

I like where this seems to be going.  Please keep us updated.



#4 cdl1542

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 08:38 AM

This should be very interesting!



#5 inline6

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 06:08 PM

Finally got the LD block (V07 casting) bored to 89 mm.  And, would you believe it didn't break through to water?  Crazy I know.  But it is obviously paper thin at this point.  We'll be doing some more cutting on it to explore what we are dealing with.  We're thinking brazing the liners in is the way to go now.  So, looking for some assistance locating someone who can furnace braze the LD block.  If you have leads, please send them my way.  This is not a common thing these days.



#6 Lurcher

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 06:55 PM



We're thinking brazing the liners in is the way to go now.  So, looking for some assistance locating someone who can furnace braze the LD block.  If you have leads, please send them my way.  This is not a common thing these days.

 

MJ.gif


Edited by Lurcher, 21 December 2016 - 06:55 PM.


#7 fraz

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 12:55 AM

Finally got the LD block (V07 casting) bored to 89 mm. And, would you believe it didn't break through to water? Crazy I know. But it is obviously paper thin at this point. We'll be doing some more cutting on it to explore what we are dealing with. We're thinking brazing the liners in is the way to go now. So, looking for some assistance locating someone who can furnace braze the LD block. If you have leads, please send them my way. This is not a common thing these days.


My brother in law bored a v57 block to see how far he could go and it would not take 89mm so he kept going and has brazed a sleeve in.
Only 1 so far to do a test run.
I'll take a photo when I visit in a week.

Interested to see your progress with furnace brazing. We have a gas supply and the space to build one if it is a good solution

#8 inline6

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 08:12 AM

Here are the bored blocks.  N42 on the left, V07 on the right.  The guy that did the boring said you could hear that the diesel block was thin while machining the bores.  Both blocks were machined to 89 mm (actually about .004" under that).  No break through to water on the diesel. 

 

Still looking for a place that can do the furnace brazing.  Thought we got lucky with this place only about 30 minutes from Bryan, my engine builder, but they are shutting down and in the middle of moving the equipment to SC.  

 

Attached File  bored blocks n42 v07 websize.JPG   117.06KB   2 downloads


Edited by inline6, 07 January 2017 - 04:51 PM.


#9 WhitleyTune

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 02:57 PM

I'm curious to understand how you are planning to sleeve these? If you want a 89mm bore you would need to bore out to ~95mm and braze in a 3mm wall thickness iron sleeve? 



#10 inline6

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 07:26 PM

We'll need to go bigger with the diesel block, yes.  We didn't want the guy doing the boring to do more without Bryan (my engine builder) being there... and timing didn't work out right.  The guy that did the boring took more than 8 months to get to it, so we were happy just to get this far.  Bryan will do some manual cutting and examination to see exactly what we have to work with - the lower and upper decks.  Liners will be custom designed, and may include a step, so we are wanting to move slowly rather than bore out another .120" and just go with what is left.  

 

The N42 will be run as is (after finish honing).  After sonic testing, we offset bored three of the cylinders - (4, 5, and 6) .010" for wall thickness reasons leaving the minimal thickness (one spot in cylinder 4) at .170".  It seems this N42 would be good for 90 mm... if .150" walls would be sufficient for normal aspiration.  The N42 engine will be the temporary replacement in the car until the 3.5 L engine build has been completed.


Edited by inline6, 27 December 2016 - 07:32 PM.


#11 ThatOneZ

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 05:54 PM

How far are you into this build so far?



#12 inline6

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 04:43 PM

Lots of research and planning but not terribly far into the execution.  I've settled on an N42 head which has had all of valve seats removed and it has had the chambers welded up.  There is a lot more work to do on the head.  We are working now to determine what to do for the valve train.  We're wanting to go with valves with 7 mm stems and beehive springs.  Right now, we're researching what spring retainers will work with the nissan keepers (collets). We're looking at machining the diameter down on some of the chrome-moly Schneider ones.

 

We've got the LD28 block bored to 89 mm, but have to figure out how to proceed with liner design and have yet to source someone to make the liners and someone who can do the furnace brazing operation.  We also plan to do Kolene® Kastech® Electrolytic to the block before brazing the liners into place.  The next step Bryan will do is exploratory surgery on the bores of the LD28 to learn what we can about the bottom and top decks.  

 

I am not terribly concerned about pace of this project as we are building a 3.0 liter to replace the engine that was in the car for now. The head for that engine is only needing minor work.  And the N42 block we are using for that engine has had all of the boring and other necessary machine work completed.  I hope to have that engine in the car in March or April.

 

Garrett


Edited by inline6, 07 January 2017 - 04:46 PM.


#13 texis30O

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 09:53 AM

Garrett, You are going down a path that I would like to go down as well.  I had intended on possibly using the Datsunworks head and a 3.0 or 3.1 to achieve the target 1000whp marque.  I am curious what you are going to use for electronic controls ( ECU) Motec? AEM? Haltech?  Were you going dual injector? Obviously there are lots of questions but if you would prefer to discuss off line I am good with that.  I also tagged Blake in a FB post about this engine build as well. 


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#14 inline6

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 12:42 PM

I have an Electromotive Tec3r that I am planning to use.  My plans are for a normally aspirated engine with a redline of 8000 to 8500.  We'll have to see what the head will flow, but I'd like to see 400 hp.  I am not well versed in fuel injection yet, but I think single injectors should be fine for my application.   

 

If we can find someone to do the block prep and furnace brazing work, I would think they would be more willing to do two than just one.  



#15 WhitleyTune

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 06:55 PM

Could be worthwhile talking to Darton or LA Sleeves. I think it could be worthwhile to develop a system, as Z prices increase and people are more happy to drop more money on high end builds. 



#16 Lurcher

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 12:07 AM

So how are you going to gain access to the bottom of the liners to seal them in position?



#17 inline6

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 07:58 AM

Bryan will need to come up with a plan.  My understanding is that the furnace brazing process heats the entire block to a specific temperature and that the brazing material, wherever it has been applied, will flow.  We have discussed creating "stepped" liners.  These would have machined steps where they seat in both the top and bottom decks.  For the brazing, there is an ideal fit - the liners cannot be too tight or too loose.  And of course the entire block will have to be remachined after the furnace...  



#18 WhitleyTune

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 01:43 PM

Furnace brazing can be applied with a paste, shim, round wire for fillets and as inline6 mentions uses capillary action to flow. You could have the brazing shim all cut to perfect size and held in place then should be fairly easy to find someone with a vacuum furnace to do the job for you - doesn't need to be a proper furnace brazing outfit, they are normally set up for continuous parts run. Hell you could even do it by hand with a gas torch and the block on the BBQ if you are keen. 






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