jakeshoe

Does it only do it when moving or anytime it is in gear? If it only does it when moving. but does so in any gear, it is probably in the rear geartrain. If it does it all the time except in park or neutral, it is likely a pump issue. The pressure is exhausted back to the pan when in neutral or park. So the pressure at the pump is reduced and would cause the noise to stop. Is it a squeel or a buzz. A buzzing sound can be the pressure regulator shuttling from air on the fluid (loose filter, plugged filter, low fluid, etc).

Mostly correct information about the variosu GM trans, particularly the 4L80E. The 4L80 went through a few design changes. They did move the cooling line from the "normal" location, back to the rear half of the case. This achieves better lube to the planets but can make it a bit more of a PITA to fit in a tight chassis. The early 91-95 trans had the more normal cooling line locations. They also made some changes to the reaction tube, center support, and other pieces a couple of times. There was an issue with the early models creating super high line pressure and busting the case due to no blow-off valve internally in the trans. The direct drum (also reverse) apply piston was known to crack and cause a loss of reverse and 3rd gear. They upgraded this to a steel piston with bonded rubber seals instead of lip seals.

Actually the Laycock design was used behind many much smaller and less powerful powertrains in the European vehicles. I believe they were uses in Jags, Triumphs, and other smaller type cars. There were several different variations. I think the GV is the "J" type. I think GV has simply taken the J box, and made it adaptable to many American transmission setups. They also hold the patent to do so.... If I ever run out of stuff to do, maybe I'll build an OD box using the OD setup from the front of a 4L80

Mike, I'm not familair with any. The GV is a Leycock design, British.

The rotating mass inside a 200-4R is gonan be less than a 4L80. It has some pretty lightweight parts, but this is also the reason they aren't as strong as a 400 or 4L80. MY personal feeling is the 200-4R can be reliably built to handle the 550-600 lb ft torque range for a "reasonable" price. They can be built to the 800 Hp/TQ range for a pretty spendy price but I think even with all the billet internals, the 200-4R will be marginal at the 800 range due to the direct clutch holding power. I prefer the 4L80 in anything over the 600 lb ft range, as I can build it with nothing fancy, honestly stock, except for a 34 element sprag (same upgrade as a TH400) some minor internal mods, and a valve body kit, and they can handle 800 HP with no sweat. If I need it to go over 800 HP, I can use a better billet forward hub (same as a 400), and do some other tricks internally. I am still cheaper off than doing a billet everything 200-4R and more peace of mind. I also like the programmability of an electronically controlled unit. As I stated before, about 450 lb ft is all I trust even a totally upgraded 700 or 4L60E to. I know of some who have made more power with them but it almost always short lived. Sometimes very short lived. The TH350, I build them and trust them to the 600 lb/ft or HP level easily. I have several proven Th350's in wheels up race cars. One ran for over 2 yrs without being touched in a mid 10 second car. It is probably still out there somewhere, the car was stolen. I think the Th350 can probablyt marginally handle 800 HP. Chris at CKperformance states that it is hydraullically capable of 1500 HP like a TH400, but that the planetaries will only hold 800 or so. I tend to agree. The 400 has been proven to handle 1200 hp fairly reliably with the right mods and honestly, it doesn't take much. I have built TH400's for a 1400-1500 HP monster truck. They were not very fancy... The Glide is a good unit due to it's simplicity. No sprags to break, one 2 speed, A low band and a high clutch, man it doesn't get any easier. One thiong that is good to remember when dealing with the Z car, it is a relatively lightweight package. It will make it easier on a trans. If you were making 600 HP/TQ and planned a small stage of N2O on a 3900 lb Chevelle, I would try to talk you into a 4L80. However the same package with a Z car, I think the 200-4R can be pretty reliable at the level of build I recommend. I recommend this level of build because I think it is reliable, but without getting into the point of diminishing returns where you have so much money invested in a trans but for the same amount you could have already had a better unit. Once you get into a trans, you have the converter, you have the driveshaft, you have the crossmember setup, etc. that to change units, is a real PITA. So then it becomes cheaper to fix the unreliable unit, than to swap over to a better trans. The key here is that you need to be honest with yourself and the builder of your power goals and intended use, and that way you can get a good unit up front and hopefully not have any issues. In the 200-4R world, there are only a few I would trust to build me a transmission. Chris at CK is at the top of that list. A 4L80E, you could likely run a wrecking yard unit reliably with minor mods. If it was healthy, nothing but a valve body kit should make it live forever in most Z car applications.

Are you including a converter with the 4L80 at that price? You can probably obtain a 4L80 for $1000 and then the manual kit and other assorted parts for about $300, since you dont need a speedo box or housing.

I doubt it could be done for $1200, but maybe $1500. The cheapest I have gotten 4L80 cores for is about $450, you might luck upon one cheaper, but it's unlikely. The cheapest I have bought a "good working" unit for from a wrecking yard was $1100. So say you found a trans with some type of warranty from a wrecking yard for $1000, then $200 for the manual kit, then a few bucks more for a filter, pan gasket, front and rear seals, and then you still need a converter. A stock replacement converter is about $200, any type of mild performance converter (2000-2500 stall) is $400+, and any type of real performance converter is a $700+ deal. Then you still have the issues with speedo hookup. It is a $500 kit to make it work with a mechanical speedo, or a $300 converter box, or you could use an electronic speedo for $200 or so. It adds up.

Expect to pay from $600-1000 for a 4L80E unit from a wrecking yard. If you want to install the kit to make it manual yourself, it is ~$200-250. Then you will need a converter, they are more expensive for the 4L80E, but not terribly so usually, just limited suppliers. The Z car being lightweight does help the reliability of a trans that would be marginal in another heavier application.

On a 4L80E the OD is located in the front of the case, similar to a 200-4R. GM took an existing 3 speed, and added the OD unit in the front, almost a seperate deal. The 700-R4 they basically took a TH350, changed the planets for a lower ratio, and redesigned it to allow a portion of the planets to overrun allowing a 4th forward gear. This creates one of the problems with the 700 being weaker too.

I hate to burst your bubble but a 700-R4 built by anyone isn't good to 700 HP...not for any length of time anyway. I personally don't build them for anything past about 450 hp/tq. They have issues with the input drum and 3-4 clutches which due to the design are very difficult to fix. Difficult enough that nobody has done it yet. Some beef up the input drum by using a sleeve inside where the input shaft comes through, but this is still a band aid fix. The input shafts break at the oil holes, and the 3-4 clutches don't hold up due to their surface area and the method used to apply them. You can only put so much pressure on them because there are sheetmetal "fingers" that apply the clutches.

I'm not sure you would have the space for a 4L80 and a GV lengthwise under a Z. The driveshaft would be SHORT. I would have to weight each trans apart. I don't have a 4L80 in pieces right now, it is mostly a TH400 with a OD unit to the front. I have all the TH400 weights recorded. There will be some rotating mass difference because the 2004R uses pretty light internals, hence all the billet stuff when you start making power. I should have all the 200-4R stuff in pieces, I'll have to weigh it sometime.

No. I haven't weighed a 200-4R but I have weighed a complete dry TH350 short shaft, TH400 short shaft, and 4L80E, all without the converter. TH350- 125 lbs Th400- 135 lbs 4L80E- 173 lbs The 200-4R is probably about the same weight as a TH400. So about 40 lbs difference in weight. The amount of HP a trans "uses" isn't a set number. This is another myth that seems to be blindly thrown about on the internet. A 4L80E would only use a very slight amount more HP than even a Powerglide at steady RPM in Drive, a bit more in OD because of the loss through the planetaries. The difference in HP used is only really different when you start accelerating or decelerating the difference in rotating mass. A TH350 and Th400 weight is 10 lbs different. All of this difference is rotating mass. A Th400 also has quite a bit larger planetary contact surfaces. In mid 10 second and slower combo's that I have been involved in a Th350-400 swap, I have never seen any loss of ET. In faster combos that accelerate the parts quicker, you will start to see slight difference in the ET. So nobody can say a 4L80 uses "30 hp" more than a TH400, etc. My questions would be, What type of dyno was used? what was the rate of acceleration when tested? etc.

I always hear how "HEAVY" the 4L80 is, Does anybody actually know what it weighs? I do and it's not all that much heavier than a TH350, TH400, 700-R4, or 200-4R... I've heard some pretty crazy claims as to how heavy it is.. Like 275 lbs.. LOL They do have a heavy converter in stock applications but any performace vehicle will be using a reduced diameter converter that would weigh less. They aren't really any larger in the bellhousing area than a TH400. My TH350 was pretty tight in the trans tunnel area up at the bellhousing area, so it would be a tight fit, but it would fit without too much hammering in a Z car. I am using a 4L80 in the '55 LSx swap I'm doing, and I pulled the 200-4R from my Chevelle and sold it, so I could install a 4L80 in it.

It would be basically the same as the CK Stage 1 trans. I would use Chris's billet forward drum, and all the same components, with a BRF valve body. The billet input shaft, OD ring gear, OD carrier, and other bilelt stuff adds up in cost and IMO isn't necessary until over the 600 lb/ft level. My theory is that if you NEED all those parts, you need to start with a better trans. I can build a 4L80E cheaper than an all billet 200-4R and it is a much stronger trans that I can trust and so can the customer. I had a 200-4R in my '69 Chevelle that was basically identical to what you would be getting, and pretty much the same as the CK Stage 1. Mid 12 second 3900 lb car. Probably a bottom 12 second car with more converter. We'll have to get into converter selection and shift firmness before I build it.

Yes, 60 day shouldnt be a problem. Im buried up in two LSx conversions, one in a 55 chevy, another in a 69 Firebird. I also have 3 Th400 builds to do. I will likely have one of the 400s built this weekend, and the 55 LS1 initially started. The other 400 I have to do has to be done by early Dec. so it will also be out of the way.

Shipping is usually about $125 terminal to terminal. Might be cheaper since it doesnt leave Texas.

I'm a few weeks out right now, really a couple of months out.

Yes it includes a BRF valve body from a 86-87 GN.

At 500 lb ft, use the 200-4R. It is more than capable of that powr level if you do a quality rebuild with a large 2nd servo, good 2nd band, alto red direct clutches, dual feed the directs, good 10 or 13 vane pump with chromoly rings, and a billet forward drum.

At 500 lb ft, use the 200-4R. It is more than capable of that powr level if you do a quality rebuild with a large 2nd servo, good 2nd band, alto red direct clutches, dual feed the directs, good 10 or 13 vane pump with chromoly rings, and a billet forward drum.

Les, A stock GN 200-4R isn't all that stout although it is a good unit to stat with, and will work fine in a Z car with the right upgrades, but it will still be at least a $2000 transmission for any type of power (400HP+).

We are mostly discussing late model electronically controlled transmissions that have a lockup converter. A lockup converter acts as a positive link between the engine and trans input shaft, so no the converter won't just slip until the engine speed matches up. A downshift during deceleration is very hard on the trans internals especially if you are above the stall speed of the converter or if it is a lockup type converter. When we "re-engineer" the trans to make firm upshifts under throttle, by installing a valve body or shift improver kit, often-times we are deleting the important accumulation that the OEM engineers designed into the transmission. They didn't just design this into the unit to soften upshifts for comfort. It is for reliability also. Each transmission design has specific reasons that it is harmful to downshift. On a 4L60-E or 700-R4 (same basic design) a downshift from 4th to 3rd under decel will kill the over-run clutches VERY quickly. There are only two small clutches and they weren't intended to be shifting under load clutches. You also have the forward sprag, and on a 4-3 shift, it must relock. It is a known weak point in the trans, it has been known to fail even when doing a acceleration downshift from 4th to 3rd, such as a factory kickdown while going up a grade. They were upgraded to a 29 element unit in the late 80's but it is still a small sprag unit and not intended to be abused. Best bet is to avoid doing decel downshifts, especially from higher rpms.

About $1900 off the top of my head after running up the basic rebuild parts and that would include a billet forward drum, BRF valve body, 3 clutch OD, alto red directs and 2nd band, Super servo, modified pan pickup, etc. That would also include a new GM TV cable, proper speedo gears, TCC solenoid/wiring and dipstick. You would need a converter and then install it.

It would be about the same as Chris's price honestly, I can't beat him by much because of all the billet parts that I have to buy from him. You realize that there is about $1200 worth of billet parts in that transmission? I get a discount from Chris because I deal with him often but this is one of those instance where you may be better off looking at another transmission. If you need a 800 lb ft capable transmission, I would look at a 4L80E. If you need a 500-600 lb ft capable transmission, then you can do a 200-4R without some of the billet pieces and get it a bit cheaper.

Honestly, you aren't getting a 200-4R that is capable of over 400 lb ft for less than $1800-2000. I have no real overhead to speak of, my shop is paid for, my tools are paid for, etc. and I wouldn't build a trans equivalent to CK's Stage II for less than $1800. I would have to run up a parts list to figure out exact pricing but they aren't cheap to build. Complete Rebuild kit- $250 Servo-$120 10 or 13 vane pump kit- $40 Alto band- $25 Hardened sun shell- $15 Hardened stator- $15 Valve body kit- $80 TV boost valves- $30 Deep pan- $150 That's $800 or so without any labor cost or any billet parts. Add $425 for a billet forward drum. Add my time to machine the OD piston, the pump, assemble the trans, etc.. Plus add core cost and any other additional expenses. Very easily gets into $2k. Most of the prices you see on the net for a built trans do NOT include the core. If you want it to have decent shift rpm placement, you need the good core, if not you'll spend as much on time to make a cheaper VB work anyway. I have ONE of the desirable 86-87 GN valve bodies on hand, it's for sale but it's not cheap.