RTz
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Posts posted by RTz
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He said to do the standard racer trick of using bearings under the spring to reduce friction and that's about the best you could hope for.
Cary
Cary,
I was just thinking about this a couple weeks ago. You're talking about running needle thrust bearings between the spring and perch right? Have you tried this? How much benefit are we talking about? Would they normally go top and bottom (of spring) or is one bearing per spring typical?
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Guy's,
This was never intended to be precise. I kept hearing rumors of 75lbs, 60lbs, 90lbs, etc. I had reasons to believe otherwise. We did what we did to see if there was a SIGNIFICANT difference. We didn't find it in the short block. Yeah, there are a few small parts missing but not 50Lbs of them. Yes, the LS1 is lighter. *If* its 55 lbs lighter, it not in the shortblock.
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You can't pile a bunch of parts ontop of either motor and weigh them like that and consider it myth busting... Don't get me wrong guys, YOU'RE ON TO SOMETHING... Now follow thru with it.
Do the parts weigh more installed then they do on top?
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The big thing with a V8 is gas consumption. I still have to be able to drive this car 350 miles and not not be broke at the end of the day. With a performance V8 I am guessing I could get maybe 12mpg or upto 15 with an LSx motor.
Not true. Plenty V8Z's get over 20. My LT1/T56 240z got 28+ on the highway.
If you make big power you WILL burn fuel, regardless of engine, period.
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Well let's just let the thread roll on. I keep reading it and I keep reading that he's being sarcastic and saying that the two idiots in their garage with some bathroom scales are wrong and that GM wouldn't have spent billions of dollars in vain.
Jon,
Don't sweat it. We knew full well it would be controversial. People can believe what they want... my Rice Crispies will still be crispy
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This thread prompts some questions. Let's assume for argument sake that the LS1 and L98 short blocks are similar in weight. Is the major advantage in the more modern EFI and head design? The LSx series engines and especially the LS7 have such a superbly flat powerband for the power they make. Could you get close with a L98 or LT1 with aluminum heads?
Kurzahls,
One thing I hope this thread does NOT turn into is a debate about which motor is superior. For what its worth, both Paul and I feel that the LSx series is better in almost every way... you'll get no debate from us.
Glad you're back!
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For some reason I didn't open this thread initially... glad I did. Congrats to all of you.
At 21 I married the coolest woman on the planet (aside from yours
)... 15 years next month. -
Any opinions or other ideas?
Flying lessons?
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Ron Tyler: Actually if you go to Z***.com you will get that.
...and I thought I was on to something.
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I'm not crazy about convertible S30's... but if I was, I'd like yours
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Olderthanyou,
There is no right or wrong answer.
If there's something that tickles you, use it.
If you want to get into the nitty-gritty of each, search.
Another way to look at it... In about 5 years I'm going to start a forum called "NonHybridZ". 8 people will subscribe.
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Cary,
In your linked pictures, the rear (outboard, toe link) pivot is not substantially supported vertically. Jon doesn't seem terribly comfortable with the extra side loads this would impart on the strut. If I read you correctly, not only have you driven the car in that configuration, but you're also doing it again on the revised car?
What are your thoughts on the increased side loads?
Thanks,
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Jon,
Something was bugging me about my numbers... I went back and found an error. 189LBS should be more accurate. I edited the previous picture to reflect that.
Sorry.
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The spindle is in front of the strut.
Opps
I made an effort to calculate this out. I don't expect it to be exactly accurate, but I think its close enough for the purpose, just as 3g's is probably close enough... I come up with 189 LBS.
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Jon,
The thing that I struggle with the most, with the track that you are on, and I think we've discussed it in PM, is that if you succeeded in making all the suspension components absolutely rigid (to reduce the longitudinal stiction) then all the mounts in the car have to be PERFECTLY aligned. If you succedded in that, then there can be NO flex in the chassis. If there is, then something else has to flex.
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It'll still get wet and read inaccurately.
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Jon,
I started drawing this (instead of studying like I’m supposed to be) and quickly came to realize that it doesn't matter (at least with the perameters you gave). *IF* the spindle is in the center, then the loads are the same on each side. The only way they’ll be different is if there is an imbalance. So what imbalance are you concerned about? Friction, braking, accell, the pot-hole? I might be able to figure it out with more info.
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From the jist I'm getting is that I need to put the IAT right before the fuel injection point which is acctually really easy for me so I'll probably put it there.
I think you're in an unusual position to do what I described. There is one flaw that I see though... If its too close to the injector, you could easily get fuel on the IAT sensor due to reversion. Not good.
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I think I'm in the process of building a car serious enough...
Can't someone with some math skill (this precludes me) figure out what the actual loading would be?
I *might* be able to figure that out but I think its more complicated than that... wouldn't the spring and shock rate be a factor? (its the reaction force right?).
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Jon,
In looking at it again, I didn't say that well to begin with. I was trying to reference the entire toe link, including the clevis, as a flexible arm vertically, with only the clevis to stop it.
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Ouch! that's gonna leave a mark
I have not yet experienced the bending J bar that you guy's have (guess I havn't built a serious enough car). In looking at the front design, I really didn't figure the rotational loads to be THAT high. The only reason is does rotate, as far as I can tell is becuse the BJ isn't centered up in the same plane as the TC rod. It is, however, close so I assumed the rotational loads would be minimal. Apparently, they are greater than I expected. BUT, I do believe it takes a VERY extreme car under exteme conditions to cause a problem with that design. I don't belive its the same as what we're talking about in the back.
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Jon,
Honestly, I am not able to see the clevis providing the kind of strength that you're talking about. I see it as pretty weak in bending.
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The issue I see, using an isulator, is that it could possibly work against you, especially in a street driven car.
For example, Pauls manifold heats up under cruise when the airflow (through the manifold) is low for a long period. Its heating up mostly from exhaust (as you mentioned earlier, Pete) and to a lesser extent from contact with the head, and mabey a touch from reversion. This heat soaks the manifold, and in turn, heat soaks the IAT's mount. When he goes WOT, this "air cools" the manifold, in turn, cooling the IAT's mount. If you used an insulator (teflon tape, delrin, etc) then its an insulator both ways... drive for an hour on the freeway and the INSULATOR is going to heat soak... and it will take even longer to cool down at WOT.
In my opinion, there is no perfect place for an IAT. Just before the point of fuel contact would probably be ideal. Readily available sensors don't allow us to do that. So, every location is a compromise. The compromise that I choose to make is just upstream of the TB, mounted in some sort of plastic. Obviously, that won't work in your SC car.
Is an LS1 really lighter than a traditional iron block SBC?
in Gen III & IV Chevy V8Z Tech Board
Posted
Nailed it.
Thank You.