Daeron
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Posts posted by Daeron
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When was your last compression test? Month, even week would be best. It is Cold and DRY right now in Florida, and if it was muggy before then even despite the warm, less dense air I would hazard a guess that with the humidity on a more NORMAL Florida day, the water vapor in the atmosphere just might cause increased static compression figures relative to today.
Compression check numbers, even using the same motor, same testing procedure, same tool, same user, WILL vary based on atmospheric conditions. This is why a leak-down test is considered the more informative diagnostic check.
Compression check is really best suited for comparing each cylinder to the others, when all are tested following as strict controls as the situation allows.
Try a wet compression check to see if the numbers go up, but if they don't, do a leakdown check.
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from above page:
and the second link...
THATS what i was lookin for!!Except this guy seems to love teaser shots....
It almost looks like an N42 head with only 5 combustion chambers visible... (ignoring oil, water, and pushrod passages of course)
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ahhhh.. I cannot tell you the last time I saw an SU setup complete with smog stuff, but I know that the air injection tube going into the exhaust manifold is usually crimped off, and there ARE a few hard lines that are left vacant and open afterwards when all the anti-pollution equipment is removed. HTH
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Damn, thats the first time I've seen a straight 8. Any chance of seeing more of the car that it's going in?
And just how did they get it to work properly with six carbs? It just seems...wrong somehow...
how did Nissan get a six cylinder working with two? Thats 3 cylinder per barrel on the 240Z stock, 2 cylinder per barrel on a stock SBC/4bbl, and with this straight eight, twelve barrels for eight cylinders, so its actually 1 1/2 barrels per cylinder.
The carbs just inject the proper fuel/air mix into the intake manifold. I think its bizarre just seeing six two bbl carbs, going into an intake manifold that has four siamesed outlet ports into the cylinder head, feeding eight cylinders.. It is an excellent illustration of EXACTLY where the differences between FI and carbs stop; the outer side intake manifold flange. (forget about the fact that 99% of EFI setups inject fuel more directly into the port; thats just a convenience thing.)
*I* would like to see what the shortblock looks like without a head on it. For that matter, the underside of the head, and the crankshaft, would be interesting shots too...
After looking at the photos again, I have to ask.. was the car running when you took these pics? #1 and #8 exhaust primaries almost look glowing red, but the rest don't. Is this motor OHV???
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Quoted from the other single-plane V8 thread, posted earlier today:
I am new here, but have been watching this thread for a while. The disclaimer is that I think you all are crazy, but that's fine. Designing a crankshaft is not an easy task. It is likely that your first few attempts will fail, probably spectacularly. This isn't meant as a slam, just a warning. Just because a crank cost X for a forging doesn't mean that the crank will cost you X once it's in the car and running. At any rate, borrowing from stuff that's already designed is a good way to start, although ferrari cranks don't often end up in my local boneyard. I started thinking about where to find any single plane V type crankshaft that could be modeled and reshaped for the application. I came across a few interesting leads. Mercruiser sold a few different engines that were basically a V8 Chevy or Ford that had been cut in half. I am assuming (not much information out there - they are not popular with boaters) that they used a single plane crank as nearly every four cylinder is. If so, you have the potential for a single plane crank meant for a V8 engine. All that you would need to do at that point is add the necessary journals for the other cylinder bank. I haven't exhaustively searched, but try:http://www.turboford.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000018;p=1
and
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=256713&highlight=mercruiser
Then there was sprint car following for the same type of engine. Any four cylinder sprint car (even modern day) is essentially a V8 cut in half. Mopar and Chevy both have recently used them. Again, I don't know if they are single plane or not, but if so, this could save you a lot of hassle. Check these guys out as they seem to be the only 'public' source of info for the innards of these engines.
http://www.kansasracingproducts.com/Machinist_Notes.html
-Brian
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i'll see what I can do
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So, you have to hold the accelerator down all the way to get it to even TRY to start. That means too much fuel is still getting in for some reason, or not enough at ALL. Does it start when you choke the fronts of the carbs off by hand?? If so, then your hands help increase the vacuum pressure action in the carb, sucking more fuel through the jet, and your problem is that your carbs aren't getting you enough fuel. If NOT, then you are definitely still getting too much fuel in the bowls.
Just re-analyzing and re-stating your situation to see if it helps jar anything loose in your brain.
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yes, but how long before Satan claims your eternal soul???
:flamedevi:flamedevi -
Its actually much harder to build power under a restrictive set of rules then it is when there are no rules at all. Remember, the best ITS 2.4L L6 engines made 208hp on a SAE certified engine dyno using unmodified engine internals, block, and head. It took hundreds of man hours to go from 190hp to 200hp and then a bunch more work to get to 208hp.
John, your comments are appreciated. All of us are VERY well aware of the realities of a competitive ITS engine build, and the biggest thing that keeps us from sending him an E31 head is the idea of shipping expenses; Not the sheer dollar cost, but the debate over whether some other alternative trade may be better worth it. Regardless, your comments as a racer carry a rather large amount of weight. We need to have a bit of a family pow-wow over all this
but enough with the threadjacking. -
The above comments are about as good as anyone can say about it; top tieer is thrilling to see, and nobody thinks it isn't fun to DO.. but its dirt track driving. Here, in America, we have lots and lots of dirt roads, AND lots of vehicles that don't even USE roads! How many dirt roads do they have over in Japan? Instead, they have vast lengths of curvy mountain highways with rapid elevation changes. In other words, where an the Duke boys would say "Eat my dirt" their Japanese counterparts would have made a tire smoke reference.
Thats my perspective based on what I've seen and heard thus far in my life, anyhow. I'm just sick of the drifting bandwaggoners, but I abhor all bandwaggoners, so thats no big surprise.
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how immediate are your swap plans? if you are really on the ball about it, you *might* be able to find someone local with some real SUs they might loan/"rent" you to use as long as you're using the L-gata?
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and i realy like the lawn ornament idea. I'll hide the pistons in my sock drawer, and put my crankshaft in my fishtank and hope no one notices...
The fish might.
There is absolutely NO cut and dry rule for when you need to run high octane. The rule is that "you should run the lowest octane fuel you can run with your tuning settings without detonating." "Tuning settings" are not being changed on your car (yet) and there are many ways, with the L6 engines, to achieve a given compression ratio. that being the case, even such a bold statement as "9.5:1 compression does/doesn't require high test gasoline" is impossible. The cam, the shape of the combustion chamber, the piston.. EVERYTHING comes into play. I have a Subaru that runs 9.5:1 compression with flattop pistons and a combustion chamber very very much like that in an N42 head, and the reason THAT thing runs so well on low octane and high compression is the rod/stroke ratio!!!
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Yah, the mechanical is the primary pump; the electric is there to supplement it. You may have noticed (or I may be wrong about your flattop setup and this only applies to the earlier, mechanical pump only cars) but there is no fuel pressure regulator either.. the mechanical pump delivers the fuel needed for the engine at any given RPM. More than enough to keep the float bowls full anyhow.
Its probably hard to see it, looking at your Falttops, but when it was first put together the dual SU carburetor setup used by nissan was an AMAZINGLY WONDERFULLY well designed fuel intake; Essentially the same setup is used on everything from the mid sixties through 1980s and fuel injection. A few vehicles came with downdraft setups (mostly larger 4 cylinders or the ultra econobox 210s) but any of the cars COULD be run with SUs if you could get a manifold for the engine, and frequently were. Simple, Effective, Potent, and Reliable.
Then the US Gov'mint told 'em they had to comply to fifty bajillion pollution control laws because the American Public couldn't dontrol their own excessive behavior, and they (the cheap Japanese economy car company) decided it would be cheaper and easier to go with computer controlled fuel injection. Not many other inexpensive car companies switched over their entire US production line to EFI like Nissan did.. Starting in '75 with the Z, every car in due time was FI, and the last to succumb was the venerable Datsun Pickup; Not until it was a Nissan Hardbody (late 86) but when it did, All nissans (AFAIK) were fuel injected.
/history lesson
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how are the chokes working?? Not much of a carb man here, but im getting a baptism by fire with this junker 240 we're getting running for me.
Can you get it to start with someone (mostly) choking off the front intakes of the carbs with their hands?
Pull a plug after trying to start and make sure it smells like fuel and is wet... If so, then you aren likely getting too much fuel. If not, try pouring a little fuel into the carburetor before you try to crank it, or get some starter fluid. If that starts it, you aren't getting enough fuel.
Simple, I know, but its about my limits with carbs.
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post some pictures of your manifold, please, to help us identify it... the sooner the better.
I can look tomorrow if I get a picture before I go to the shop.
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Interested would be an understatement! That intake is my dream topper for an N/A single-plane V-8 crankshaft. Just need to find that part/s-service I have to offer in trade that will seal the deal.
Quite frankly, in my mind (and by extension, the minds of those in my family) the manifold is yours already. Sometime in the fairly near future I should probably give you a call and talk about what is to be done, but in case I haven't said it before.. you can "owe me" if/when you want the manifold. As soon as you have the motor for it to go on I'll ship it; don't wait for me to say what I/we want. A cylinder head for my brother's ITS 240 car would probably be the no brainer.. IF that didn't require a straight, intracontinental-disco-stylin' corner to corner shipment of a cylinder head
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What I find strange is no one else really volunteers for the events. A lot of drivers are driving AND doing whatever they can to help the event run smoothly.
I heard a quote on Speed channel the other day, forget what I was watching. I *think* it was at laguna seca but I forget which race. I cannot even recall the specific wording of it, but one announcer said to the other (who said the same applied to him) "the first job I had in motorsports was free.. in fact the first several jobs!"
Racecar drivers of any stripe, from local autocrossers to Richard Petty and the Andretti clan, all know that there is a VERY nonzero chance of ending their life on a track; as such, we all pitch in and help as much as possible, because none of us ever know when WE will be the one getting the help. That, plus.. you can't get any seat time for free!!!!! I've only been in the drivers seat on a track one day of my life.. but I've worked corners ALOT.
I had no clue that this camaraderie was lacking at drifting events.. Never gone to see one in person. Is this an isolated experience, or do others notice the same lack of enthusiasm amongst the fans/lay people?
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mechanical fuel injection manifold, looks like maybe SBC, I would hazard a guess at what brand but I cant think of the name of the company right now.
I have one of those manifolds sitting in a box in the back of my 75 right now; BRAAP has expressed interest in it. Unfair advantage
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LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!!!!!!!
I am overjoyed to annouce, *trumpet*clarion*
The hybridZ Quote Of The Day!!!
That's part of what's always bugged me about it. It's the automotive equivalent of ice dancing. Sure, it takes tremendous skill and talent, but what for? Style points? Lots of smoke and noise and not much else.It's a skill a good driver should be able to master...but it should be treated as a tool in the bag of tricks - something to use when you've buggered up a corner. There's more to driving than just being able to go sideways.
The way I look at it is this: fishtailing around a wide turn is fun. Who DOESN'T like that?? Its sorta like how we used to roll down a grassy hill when we were little kids... Fun!
If, somehow, somewhere, SOMEbody found a way to essentially roll down a grassy hill in a competitive fashion, that could sell unrelated products, and be at least conceivably, moderately entertaining.... I betcha the grassrolling trend would catch fire all through western culture. (I want to say America, but the good ol US of A does NOT have a monopoly on being easily entertained.)
If it "looks cool" it gets your brain set into the jell-o mold that the advertisers want, so they can show you their commercials four times during the program.
THIS is my favorite drifting video.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8Ciu8nGVYI
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uhhh... if the tubes were bent to clear the intake manifold, then the options are
A. Different intake manifold or
B. New tubes
Hasn't this exhaust manifold surfaced in the past?? The Ebay seller has a +1 feedback rating, and for all we know that came from our Dear Little Friend, bigphil. (We all love ya guy
) Not to rain on any parades, I just caught a whiff of fishy is all. Hopefully I am being overly paranoid.What *I* would do if I were holding this piece, is first, mock it up on a car with turbos. Check clearances on fender side and on block side, and if all is groovy, I would remove the flange, and tilt the entire manifold ever so slightly down/towards the block. Repair/replace dented in tubes, and re weld the flange. This give you the clearance on the intake manifold runners, increases distance between turbo heat and intake aluminum, and should help allow you to fit larger turbochargers on there without interfering with steering or hitting the frame.
Then again, that is SUPER easy to say when I didn't just drop 300 buxx0rs on the bloody thing
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Too Cool!!! Any better carburetor porn?
I sure would like to meet the guy who first thought "Lets put SIX single-throat carbs, breathing through FOUR ports, on our Eight cylinder motor!"
After all, it takes a little crazy to make good people.
I noticed that motor had a non-crossflow head on it.
I BET you could take a couple of RB heads, cut one in half right down the middle.........................
..but seriously, any chance of a video so we could hear that beast?
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......so, then, it sounds like maybe getting a raw, un-twisted crank forging and having it treated and prepared for hi-po use might not be out of the question after all?????
And where, in all this buzz, is the question?!!
Racerstech: How did you get those cranks, from whom, for how much, and how long did Satan tell you before he came back to claim your eternal soul???
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Hey Dareon:
Suggest away, as I need out of the box ideas!
I would, if I had any.. I was merely stepping back from the "anti-hybrid" stance on this chassis. Really, about the only thing that makes any sense in my mind would be to lop the front half off and go tube frame on it.... but then we once again run into the "but its chassis #935!" conflict. I have put that conflict to bed in my mind, for this case, and just wanna see that 4200cc, dual overhead cam, cross-flow'd headed in line six cylinder in an S30.
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Next thing, which may be a little harder. Add a quadrant to you throttle linkage and slow down the lower opening movement. You want to have to move your foot more at the lower openings. This can really be important with a V8 car.
I was thinking of suggesting this same thing, but I didn't last night because it was in the sticky "max power stroker" thread.
since I wanted to subscribe to this thread anyway, I figured I would give this a +1
THATS what i was lookin for!!
:flamedevi:flamedevi
but enough with the threadjacking.
That intake is my dream topper for an N/A single-plane V-8 crankshaft. Just need to find that part/s-service I have to offer in trade that will seal the deal. 
Acceptable Comp Loss
in Nissan L6 Forum
Posted
No; last December was unnaturally warm. VERY Cold November, warm December last year. I was talking about it with my dad tonight actually..... (Of course, you ARE about 250 miles north of me.. and the fronts seem to have been stalling right around the tampa/daytona line rather more often than not in the last two or three years.)
I'm kinda guessing on the humidity thing, the logic seems acceptable to me but I am not sure my facts are 100% right; but we all know water compresses less readily than air, so I was figuring it might offer more resistance to compression, hence higher PSI figures. BUT.... that was just a stab at explaining why exactly the compression check itself might be uncontrolled. The fact remains that two compressions checks performed 24 hours apart can be fairly different for no reason other than the atmospheric conditions at the time of the test.