jeffp

Hi lockjaw, you are correct about what turbonetics does with the pounds per minute figure, a pain in the butt. I used my engine math handbook to do the CFM calculation and it was in the 1000 CFM area, just about right for your calculation also. I also looked a corky bells formulas, but they were not to helpful with the conversion. He uses CFM in his book, but I was able to use one of his formulas to get the PR I would need in order to get the cylinder filled with the correct amount of air to produce 600Hp. Then I was able to calculate the cylinder pressure and I cant remember the psi exactly, but it was up into 300psi @ TDC with my current static compression ratio. I dont think I would try this on stock head bolts, Studs are a must, and a steel head gasket, or orings. We will see how it works out, I was thinking about bigger studs, but I would have to go through another set of formulas to convert the compression to pounds per Sq inch of pressure on the cylinder head, and the beat goes on. A number of things to consider and all of them need some head way in my opinion to have a reliable setup. I like building overkill it has helped me so many times when it comes to improvements and upgrades. The weak point in the system is the waste gate, no question about that, but if I can get to where I want to go without to much trouble on this one then that is what I will do. What Tim and James mentioned is very possible when you stop to consider this new compressor will be putting out 1 1/3 to 1 1/2 times the volume it is now. I love this stuff LOL, mo money jeff give me mo money LOL.

I did port work on my exhaust manifold. There is allot of material that can be removed from the flange area, and on the sides that the runners dump into. You have a few hours of work there with agood air grinder. You will want to open it up and smooth out the dump into the outlet. Really I am undecided how far you can go with the stock manifold. I do know I dont like the inlets to the manifold (head side) they are restricted to make room for the big washers to mount the part. That area needs work also, but watch the thickness when you remove material, and again, smooth the inlets and that will help also.

Hi Donna, I did the calculation but dont remember the exact numbers, napkin calculation LOL I need a PR of about 3.3 to get to the hp I want. I will have to go back to my notes and get the numbers. Basically, I need to build about another 100Hp and increase the flow rate of my turbo. This at the same time try to keep the spool up at a reasonable rpm range and that is the real trick. My first turbo spooled at 2500 rpm and it ran 15-16 psi, this turbo spools at 3000 rpm and it runs 23-25psi I am shooting for about 30psi and that should take me into the numbers I want. I am shooting for the 600hp and stop there. I dont think the car can handle any more then that, and really I need to take it easy turning on the power. I will need to ease into the power and not idle to 600hp off the line. The transmission is the real weak part of the drive train, so if I dont watch it a little I will make a junk transmission. I have talked to a number of people and they cant believe I am putting the torque throught it right now and it did not break. I did the calculation of the compression, I have to check it out and make sure I did the math right, but I am looking at about 300psi compression to get to 600hp.

ok James what do you got? I would also liketo get some info from you on the semi flexable coupler you have on your system in a 1 3/4" OD. I want to be able to make small adjustments in the pipe if I need to. No I haven't done any further cam work on the car. I was running the cam retarded in the first place and what I was wanting to do is bring it back to 0 and see what it was doing on the dyno. I guess I am going to have to consult my notes some on this one. I thought runnig retarded would bring in the lowend and advancing would bring up the topend. I have to get a new dampener before I continue with the test. I dont feel comfortable running it with the damaged part, so I am going to wait to get the new part from BHJ and do all the upgrades in that area at once. Lockjaw, I am already running a stage 5 exhaust turbine wheel in a stock (machined housing) .63 A/R Nissan housing.

Thanks Tim, that is correct regarding the flow of the turbo. I will make sure of what the system is doing and if it is operating within good specifications. I have already made arrangements to have an external waste gate installed on the manifold. I am going to try this steup first and see the outcome. Taking the intake and exhaust off the car is a pain in the A** anytime and if I do it now or one try later it really doesn't matter to me. I am also considering a smaller compressor housing, but I need to get some data from this first setup. You are more then likely correct in that I will need to go with an external unit, but I want to cover all the bases here. This work is not only installing a bigger turbo, but also some R&D for future builds of similar configurations. I have some what of a unique setup and I have not found any real data on what I am doing, so I will approach it in a step by step basis until it is correct, reliable, and accurate. One thing about me is that I am relentless in the persuit of making something do exactly what I want it to do when I build it.

You know, if you want to run 350Hp (ONLY) and not to much over that then I would suggest going with the first turbo I did. I was running an air research compressor (a grand national compressor housing and wheel) and a stock T3 nissan exhaust turbine wheel, I would suggest the stage 3 wheel tho. and a stock .63 exhaust turbine housing. I was able to push about 15psi of boost with the car and it was in full boost at 2500 rpm. I think that would do very well for your application. I also think that once you get to that power level you are going to want more LOL That would be my recommendation, good spool, good topend, and not really radical power to try to hold down.

Well now that I have bought the new turbo, I will tell you what it is. I decided on the 62-1 wheel, the TO4E housing with the 60 A/R The T350 series exhaust turbine wheel big shaft stage 5. I was able to get my hands on a stock Nissan .82 A/R exhaust turbine housing and it will be machined out to fit the stage 5 exhaust turbine wheel. I am going to at this point run the stock waste gate. I know you are not going to like this to much James, but if the turbo will maintain 8 psi (because I tightened up the actuator arm) under high rpm levels like it does now, then there really is no reason to go external on the waste gate. I think this will get me to where I want to go with the horse power. I need about 30psi of boost and I am looking for a turbo that will build about 35psi to give me some head way. The flow rate is right in there for what I need, With that, I am going to leave the car that way and finish up the rest of the modifications I have been waiting on.

I dont seem to have to much problems with my stock waste gate actuator. I did put a threaded end on it, but other then that it is a stock unit.

I can weigh a diesel crank. I have one still hanging out in the garage looking for a home. I have weighed them and if I remember correctly they weigh in at 56 pounds and some.

THE BEST COME BACK : Oh yea! LOL Maybe I was not clear enough on the dampener. The first issue regarding the Diesel part, not going to work. They are dfferent, and for that matter I have found a good percentage of them that have done the seperation thing, and they dont get anywhere near the rpm's I am spinning my engine to. As I said I looked at a number of different manufacturers and like Donna said she needs a stock configuration on the pully assembly. I could have gone with the ATI unit but I need the stock configuration also, so that was out. This dampener is going to be made by BHJ, you can call and talk to brian at (510) 797-6780 I made my requirements very clear to him regarding the stock configuration on the pullies for this dampener and that is not a problem. The difference is the dampener only, it will be made from higher quality materials, lighter and will last allot longer. I really havent noticed much difference between the stock L28 crank or the LD28 crank on the dampener question. All of them seperate when you start spinning the engine to 7000 rpm's, 6000 rpm's and they last just fine, but the higher range is where they start failing. Anyway, why dont you give Brian a call and talk to him about it, tell him Jeff Priddy sent you, maybe that will get it completed faster if he gets a few calls wanting them.

LOL funny James, you sure you can get that light rear to stick to the ground??? Maybe some lead weight may help. anyway, maybe I screwed up what I was doing, when I found out the dampener was toast it kinda messed me up a little. we will see, I think I am going to hold off on doing anymore runs until I get this new dampener, the idea of breaking a crank sure doesn't sound lik my idea of fun.

Well, you can give it a try, but I would not recommend going higher then the stock boost levels with the bottom end, pistons and that stuff. I would have to check, but I do believe the N/A piston moves the top compression ring closer to the top of the piston if memory serves me correctly. That could be a problem. I would get the complete ECCS fuel management system from the turbo car, the 82-83 year car is the best harness to get because of some of the things used on the earlier car is not as easy to install. You will need the ECU,distributor,AFM and plumbing, the injectors and the fuel rail, the turbo, and the Jpipe, the air cleaner and couplings, and that is about it. You will need to make sureit doesn't over boost. I guess the best thing would be to get the whole intake with the fuel rail, injectors in one shot because the turbo intake is made just for that, the turbo application. On theturbo side you will need the exhaust manifold, the down pipe, and I would suggest with the cat, and run a 3" cat back system with a dynomax muffler. Thats about it, and see how it goes, allot of people say it cant be done with the stock bottem end, but I think they are strongewr then most think. Really, the best you could go is to just get a turbo engine and go from there, the F54 block is stronger then the N42 (Ithink) block, and it is already setup for the turbo application. You may get a better price on a complete engine if you just yank it complete then to take all of the parts and throw them on the counter and buy them. I would ask what kind of prices you can get for a complete first and go from there. If it is just a matter of wanting higher compression with the turbo, then you can take the head and have it resurfaced to get the compression ratio you are looking for and call it even. hope that he lps you

Well, you can give it a try, but I would not recommend going higher then the stock boost levels with the bottom end, pistons and that stuff. I would have to check, but I do believe the N/A piston moves the top compression ring closer to the top of the piston if memory serves me correctly. That could be a problem. I would get the complete ECCS fuel management system from the turbo car, the 82-83 year car is the best harness to get because of some of the things used on the earlier car is not as easy to install. You will need the ECU,distributor,AFM and plumbing, the injectors and the fuel rail, the turbo, and the Jpipe, the air cleaner and couplings, and that is about it. You will need to make sureit doesn't over boost. I guess the best thing would be to get the whole intake with the fuel rail, injectors in one shot because the turbo intake is made just for that, the turbo application. On theturbo side you will need the exhaust manifold, the down pipe, and I would suggest with the cat, and run a 3" cat back system with a dynomax muffler. Thats about it, and see how it goes, allot of people say it cant be done with the stock bottem end, but I think they are strongewr then most think. Really, the best you could go is to just get a turbo engine and go from there, the F54 block is stronger then the N42 (Ithink) block, and it is already setup for the turbo application. You may get a better price on a complete engine if you just yank it complete then to take all of the parts and throw them on the counter and buy them. I would ask what kind of prices you can get for a complete first and go from there. If it is just a matter of wanting higher compression with the turbo, then you can take the head and have it resurfaced to get the compression ratio you are looking for and call it even. hope that he lps you

>Jeff - should I infer that this is somebody from Unorthodox Racing that is making you a dampner? < Hi Tim, no this is another company that is doing the R&D on this part. I keep getting the name mixed up so I wont say who they are, except that the gut I talk to is named Brian. I was refered to them by one of the companies I was tring to get to do a dampener. Funny thing about that is that it seemed like a trail right behind Dave Robello that landed me in the same place. This will be an honest to goodness dampener for our cars. I wouldn't have bothered with them if it was not. They will make the single shiv pully and the three shiv pully so you can have your A/C and power steering if you want that to, hey Donna, right up your alley with your car, and my car. I told Brian I wanted the third pully bolt on just like the stock unit and he said no problem. Rest assured if it was not a viable solution, Dave Robello would have dumped the prospects long ago. Those guys are turning the engines they build to 8500 rpm, really crazy stuff. I am hopeful this will be a good solution and save engines and some money in the long run. Right now I am chicken to even run my car with the dampener the way it is. Get rid of the stroker, yea that longed rod, long throw crank, reminds me of an old WWll jeep, what a dog LOL I have been waiting on a number of upgrades to my car to get this part. I still need to do the oil pan, and a brass oil pump gear, and I would like to do all of them at the same time. Frankly I am tired of getting under the car, so I am going to wait an all this stuff, including a manual rack and pinion steering unit that will require the cross member to be changed out also, so what better time to do the oil pan. I keep eyeing the cross member on the floor. I have it almost ready to install. I welded all the spot welds and seams on the part and just need to have it powder coated to finish it up. I have all the new parts for the rack also. I need to get off my butt and get the parts down for coating and put them together. I have decided on a turbo and will get that going here Monday. I also need to do myself a big favor and find out exactly what the back pressure is right now, got to take the turbo lose to get a fitting on the spacer for the pressure gauge, under the car again I guess. Really I am almost done with the car LOL or at least I find some new gadget to install for something LOL That is my story and I'm stickin to it. LOL I will keep you guys updated on what is happening with the dampener. I know it will be a good seller, and I was thinking of letting David at innovative Zcar know about it so he can sell it through his business.

>Well, the pistons is made for turbo application. There cut for RB26DETT by JE. There is .240" of metal on top of the pistons uncut. Forged pistons too. Do you think I can't coat the pistons and get away with .100" to "140 of metal?< You might be able to get by on .250 thick, but man it is taking a chance. With this case the issue becomes the heat sink capabilities of the top of the piston. You need to dissipate the heat and you need a X amount of material that will accept the heat, dissipate and distribute the heat without getting so hot that the aluminum gets soft or even molten. One thing I have noted about all of these coatings is that they work well, but they are short lived relatively speaking when you want to run the car say 100k or along those lines. I almost got that poly/molly coating on the piston skirts when I did my engine, but decided against it when I found out it would last only about 50K or so and that was not in a race engine. The cost was to much in my opinion. You know, David at Malvern Racing would probably have some good insight on the minimum thickness of the piston tops. He is a prety smart guy and I like to run stuff by him I cant make up my mind on just for a different perspective. One thing I have learned is that it is never stupid to get more opinions, the more information you can get the better off you will be in making an intelligent informed decision.

Thanks Tim, I was a little bothered by the harmonic dampener tho, really messed up my test. I think I am going to do the turbo thing first with the car and then continue the cam project. I made a few calls today and decided on a turbo for the car. I think I am going to hold off on the T66 compressor for now and go with a To4E .60 compressor housing with a 62-1 wheel. The exhaust will be a couple of choices, but I need to make another call and decide then. I really dont want to go to the T4 exhaust, but I just might end up there, but for now I will try this setup and see what that does. I really need to get the power curve a little more flat line, and I think with a little tweeking I can get it, but it just takes time to get the right combination of parts that will work good together. I got to get this dampener issue solved once and for all. I am really hoping Brian will come up with a unit that will last. I cant be changing out dampeners every 7K miles. You know, I am starting to get real surprised that T5 doesn't break, that is allot of torque going through that tranny. anyway I guess it'stime to putthe car up on jack stands again, I hate pulling the intake off that car.

shaving the top of a piston that was not made for a turbo application is not recommended. First, .100 thick on the top is about 1/3 the thickness it needs to be, so you will end up blowing a hole in the top. Also the piston does act like a heat sink so that thin on the top will just melt. Then there is the issue of the pressure that will be produced by compressing the air, and then the combustion, to thin, way to thin.

I called Brian today and the dampeners are on their way back to him. He thinks he has a solution for all of the dampeners. He mentioned that they are going to make a standard dampener and machine the pully's (of the various types) to bolt on the unit. Sounds like a winner to me. The units will be lighter, that is good and I am guessing they will be made of aluminum, that is way cool. I will keep you updated on the progerss.

Well I have good news and I have bad news. The good news is that I got the output Hp to 415.1 and the torque to 473.2 and stopped there at about 23-25 psi. I started to do the cam timing and found out the harmonic dampener is gone, the timing mark is way off and I can see where the rubber is getting munched. I realized this after I had the cam sprocket loose and had no wqay of figuring the degrees of retard on the cam. I did not have a dial indicator to get TDC on the piston, and I tried to use the screw driver old trick, but that was a waste of time. For anyones information, doing the screw driver is a complete waste of time as there are a number of degrees of crank rotation that move the piston just slightly and you cant tell exactly where TDC is without a dial indicator, so dont even bother. I did advance the cam to where I thought 4 degrees was, but that to was a waste of time. We ran the car and it caughed good once and it felt rough when I started it. I thankfully did have a mark to where I had the cam before I started, and you know sometimes I think I am real smart, because I forgot I did that mark, so I set it back to where it was ran the car one time to make sure we did not do any damage with it's little cough and called it even. Here is the thing tho, the power comes on at 3500 very hard and lasts till almost 5000. The boost gauge starts fluttering at about 23 psi, so now I'm thinking it just may not be the cam causing the drop in power/torque, but the turbo just running out of air flow. Now I'm thinking the best way to go is to get the bigger turbo, run it up to 23-25psi and see what the results are on the power band. What do you guys think would be the best next step with this thing???? My reasoning is that I know I need a bigger turbo anyway, so start there and then start testing again once I know for damn sure the flow rate is there (pounds per minute) and then start testing again. I think I am going to make a few calls and try to get some more input even on the head and make sure the valves are no floating or something like that, because when they start resonating, and they do, the power dropps off real quick also. I will scan the dyno results and post them on my page later today so you can get a look at what I am talking about. I'm all ears guys and gals. Jeff

Really that would put me where I want to be to gain that much power. You need to stop to considr the loss through the drive train and that is said to be anywhere from 15-20& depending on who you talk to so 415 Hp at the wheels is 498 Hp @ the flywheel, if I am doing the math correctly. Not to bad I say. I just want to get the power band in a better range. I do need a better compressor, and I really need to find out the actual back pressure at the turbo inlet. The dampener, I knew it was going to go, but not this fast. I have a guy designing a new dampener as we speak. Dave Robello is having the older three shiv dampener in to him also and the Euro dampener. He is spinning the engines to 8500 rpm and he said they are lasting about five races and they are toast. The dampeners are being frequency tested right now and with that information Brian can come up with a solution. ATI also makes a dampener already for the L28 engines, but I haven't looked at them closely to figure out if that unit will work on my car. The ATI unit is NHRA approved and are serviceable. I have been thinking about this problem for some time because I wanted to set the rev limit to 7200 rpm because I am having a hard time shifting fast enough at times to get it into second before the rev limiter kicks in. I have looked at the fluidamper and possibly in an application of a serpentine belt configuration. That really would be the best way to go I think.

oh, sorry for the bad spelling.

Hi Glenn there are a couple people running that setup here. Where did you find the setup at. I got a link from Donna to their site, but it was not the correct site to check it out.

I haven't gotten the price of the pump or the plumbing yet. I need to design a good block to run the fittings and mount it to the front of the engine. I know what I want to do with it, but I just need to get the time to do the work. I have a number of projects going right now and I need to finish some of them first. I have a friend that can do the CNC work on the block so that really is not a problem, but I need to make a drawing of what I want and go for it. I just may call Moroso and get the pump to get a better idea of what I am dealing with here. What my plan is will be to make the block, plumb it with 3/4 A/N fittings, one from the side (inlet to the pump) and noe from the top with a 90 degree fitting (outlet ofthe pump) and mount the pump around the vacuum pump on the inner fender. I want to keep the lines as short as possible and use steel braided lines and I think it will be a masintenance free system. I was considering a sensor that would trigger the pump to start once the water temp was to about 160 degrees and go from there. I could also have the pump start when the car is running as well. I do need to provide more bypass relief in the thermostat so that the pump will move some coolant while the thermostat is closed, but that is not much of a problem. So thats the plan.

go to my web page and I have a complete write up on the install. http://www.angelfire.com/extreme/280zxt just click on the T/B thumb on the front page. The install is easily done and the T/B is easily modified. I have done a number of them.

I was talking to Moroso regarding a electric water pump and was hoping they would do a pump for our cars. I spoke to Bill yesterday and they would have to sell about 100 pumps a year to make it worth all the R&D for the project. I mentioned all ofthe various race shops that might be interested in the unit as well, but am not sure if they called anyone. anyway, he suggested a external pum configuration and said he would give me a good deal on a pump if I caould come up with an adapter to bolt to the front of the cover. Now I was not really interested in an external pump configuration because I did not want all the hoses and hardware in my engine compartment. I got to thinking tho, I could design a water pump block that would bolt directly to the front cover like the stock pump, run -12 lines into and out of the block and just get rid of the belt stuff all together. I think it could be a very clean install, and the adapter would not be that hard to make and use the A/N fittings to and from the pump. The pump will flow 20 gallons a minute so that is some really good flow andthat spec was taken with the pump installed on an engine so it is actual flow rates. An electric fan would be required for the application, but allot of guys like the electric fan better anyway. So what do you guys and gals (Donna ) think. I can do the R&D on the unit, run it with A/N fittings with a -12 line and it will install just like the stock unit, with the exception of a change in some of the mounting screws. The best part is that Moroso just might market the unit.