Scottie-GNZ

Ever had one of those days that made you want to cry and laugh at the same time? Spent most of the afternoon with a buddy trying to get to the bottom of my fuel pressure problem. I think we finally found it and in the process made some eye-opening discoveries. We have concluded that the problem is the FPR. This is a brand new replacement that the vendor sent me. With the fuel pump running, we attached a Mity-vac pump to the vacuum port of the FPR and applied pressure which should simulate boost. We were not sure if this was going work so we tried it on another GN and got a steady increase of 1# fuel pressure per 1# "boost" applied by the Mity-vac. With mine, when we applied 20# pressure from the pump, the FPR was registering an increase of 24# . That explains why the car ran so rich Wed night. I am running an open loop mode chip that expects the pressure to be set at 46# at idle, vacuum line off. Dont know why I was reluctant to beleive I could have gotten 2 brand new FPRs and have both be defective. Then proceeded to check every connection for leaks with the Mity-vac and made 2 frightening discoveries. My boost gauge is badly miscalculated. At 20# on the gauge, it is reading 4# high. This is a gauge from a highly reputable aircraft instrument manufactuer who claims to calibrate their gauges carefully. Imagine if it was reading 4# low . To double check, we did the same test on his GN. Continued checking and then discovered an alsmost new PCV (Purolator) was not functional, which means I was dumping boost through that huge hose into my crankcase!!! The consolation is that if the gauge is really off by 4# at 20# boost, that means when I ran 11.50 @ 120.5 and thought I was running 21# boost was really only 17+# boost. In addition, how much boost was I losing pass the PCV? Guess I will be laid up for a little while but think I have finally herded those cats and have something to look forward to when I get it all right. I would highly recommend getting a Mity-vac and testing every hose. You might be surprised what you will find. Invest in a big bag of zipties. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ [This message has been edited by Scottie-GNZ (edited January 27, 2001).] [This message has been edited by Scottie-GNZ (edited January 27, 2001).]

Here are some responses to my query on the Buick turbo forums. http://www.turbobuick.com/bb/Forum1/HTML/019231.html http://www.turbobuicks.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000379.html I am sure there will be more responses, but you get the drift. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

As for a manual trans behind the Buick motor, the motor has the standard B-O-P bellhousing bolt pattern and it has been done. It just is not a popular option for the Buick and TransAm TTA crowd for some obvious reasons. It has been reported (never seen it confirmed) that it "slows" the car down. Remember, this is a drag racing mindset and lets face it, who is going to be putting a 3700lb Buick Regal through the twisties ? Besides, why go to the expense of swapping out the slushbox for a 5-spd then worry about the inconsistencies of launching a 500hp turbo motor and snapping parts? Not that launching off a transbrake with 15# wont hurt the car, but..... Since there seems to be some interest, I will inquire on the forums and see if I can get the details of the swap. As some of you might have gathered, I am not in my 20s . At last count, my latest car is my 42nd and only the 5th automatic. I was definitely in that "no slushbox" mindset. The first auto was my first car and I did not care if it had no tranny . The 2nd was to please my GF (now wife) and it was a '70 340 Duster and she was just learning to drive but wanted to hit the drag strip before she even got her license. The 3rd was a cherry '67 Plymouth Valiant convertible with a 273 V-8 (wish I had that one now). My current daily driver is a '73 Navajo. It was with some reluctance that I went with an auto in the Z but I just did not think it affordable to run in the 10s with the IRS with a manual. The Z is not a daily driver and I have another toy when I want to row gears and do the twisties, but I have to admit, I have no regrets at all about the auto in the Z. Enough rambling. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

This is exciting. I got page 4 and #75! ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

Jamie, you want to scrounge the classifieds of the popular forums, EVERYDAY, and be prepared to act fast when one pops up. I do not have the URLs for the various Sy/Ty forums but I am sure John Scott has a long list. If not, give me a day or so. Now, if you are considering V-6 turbo, let me tell you about this other little known V-6 turbo. It used to be available in a Buick (chuckle) and a special edition TransAm. Actually, it beats me why other folks are not looking at the Buick as an option. Must be the slushbox. IMO, for power potential and price/performance, it beats ANYTHING you can put in a Z, hands down. Bold statement , but it can back it up. If you are interested: http://www.turbobuick.com http://www.turbobuicks.com http://www.gnttype.org ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

Morgan, do not get excited. I do not remember what fittings I have since it has been over a year. However, whatever I have, I got from a conversation with Corky. I suggest you call him and have him tell you exactly what fitting to buy. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

What is the chance this post will hit 100? Roamer, if you have decided on the 4.1L with the eventual goal of forced induction, you might want to consider the following. Unless startup funds are limited and you do not care about the final cost (final cost, thats hilarious), it might be better to start off searching for a Sy/Ty drivetrain that includes the electronics and I/C. Buying an N/A might be initially less expensive, but getting all the pieces later to forced induction is going to be killer. I firmly believe, and John Scott can chime in, that it will cost considerably less to start with a complete OEM forced induction setup. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

I really question the need for a 6-spd trans on a street car. As I look at the performance data on cars with 6-spds, I do not think it offers any performance advantage and in fact every one I have seen shows the car slows down in 6th gear. The only purpose I see them serving is allowing a performance car to have a very high overall gear ratio to lug the engine for better gas mileage to meet CAFE requirements. Am I missing something? Is performance the reason why the SBC guys want a T56 or is it just the best option available? ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

Corky is correct about the Pierburg outlet. I questioned it too but he said it was no problem even for someone running insane HP. I dumped it into a -8 immediately after the pump. Patrick's 11-sec L28T also has the Pierburg and I am close to 400RWHP and counting and no problem. 240Z Turbo also has one on his insane 3.1 L6 with a T64 turbo and NOS. As they say in NYC, "fuggedaboudit" . I ran the SVO/X4Rti 36# injs and I have the mod on my L28T page. I was around 300RWHP with the stock engine and turbo spinning at 17psi with about 75% duty cycle. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

A good source for parts and information is from the Buick turbo forums. The 200R4 was standard in the Buick Turbo cars and there are folks running some serious HP in those Buicks. The 200R4 in the Buick Turbos were also more heavy duty (do not know the specifics) than other 200R4 applications. If you are in the market for a torque converter in the 2500RPM range, thats standard in the Turbos and a dime a dozen. Go to the Buick forums and check out their transmission sections: http://www.turbobuick.com http://www.turbobuicks.com http://www.gnttype.org/ My keyboard did not stutter . Go to the Technical section of the last URL and there is enough information to make your head hurt. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

At the time I did my SDS conversion, high impedance injs was not even a consideration. But, also keep in mind that none of these programable systems are made for a specific car. Once you eliminate the OEM wiring and computer, it is just another 6 cyl. What makes a Z unique in that sense is the mappings it ends up with. Imagine if these vendors were to try and sell a unique system for every car and have to take into consideration the level of modifications? That said, I made the discovery when RCI sent Patrick hi-impedance injs and we had an SDS low-impedance driver. SDS was more than willing to send us a different driver, for a cost of course. After all, would you take back a used electrical part? We eventually forced RCI into swapping out the injs. Why is that not on the SDS page? Only thing I can think of is that it is not common for cars to switch inj impedance and it is expected you would order what the car normally uses. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

Morgan, one correction. You do not need any resistors for the SDS. They support low OR high impedance injectors. Just tell them what you plan on running and they will send the appropriate inj driver. That provides a wider selection of injectors, leaving you to be concerned only about finding one that requires little or no mods to fit. Of course, if you select one and decide to switch later, no problem, but you pay for another inj driver. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

You said you wanted someone else to answer so I did not respond. I used all NPT and did the appropriate tapping. I used the therm housing from a later model that had all the crap on it and plugged what I did not use. SDS will give zcar.com members the standard 10%. Carlos will give 15% to a small group of 5 or 20% to the larger group purchase. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

David, not sure I agree with the statement that the injs are his weak point. When he gets to the 500hp level, yes, but 52# injs should be able to support up to mid-400hp level at 85% duty cycle and w/o turning up the fuel pressure. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

It certainly is an alternative. That guy has a ton of $$$ into that project. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

Spoke to Carlos again recently and he is willing to offer 15% to a smaller group purchase of 5. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

Chris, glad to see another turbo guy out there. There are a few of us. Why no consideration for turbos? I think it is a matter of unfamiliarity and a believe that there is some black magic involved with turbos. Dont start a war guys, there is supposed to be a little humor there . Kind of puzzling, actually, as I would not approach a S-charger differently from a turbo. The turbo has more plumbing, but if the S-charger was running more boost, it would have to have an I/C also. After all, it is the compression of the intake charge that generates most all the heat. I take a very simplistic approach to turbos. Make sure you have the components to eliminate heat, supply all the fuel needed, and make sure the engine can breathe. With that, turn up the boost to the beginning point of detonation then back off a notch. No black magic there, because I cannot imagine the approach to maximizing an S-charger any different. Of course, all the S-charger folks will tell me I am wrong ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

You want to turn the boost up, but before you touch that dial, do the following: Install a boost guage - $35 Install an air/fuel meter - $30 or better yet an EGT guage with the probe - $80-100 Install an I/C with mandrel plumbing. At a minimum, get one from a Supra - $275+ Upgrade the exhaust to 3" - varies with type of pipe & muffler Install an adjustable fuel pressure regulator - $75-125. Bigger injectors is the right way to do it but expensive Modify the wastegate actuator rod to adjust the boost - $2.50 if you have a die Once you have these installed, start turning up the boost in small increments while increasing the fuel pressure to increase the injector flow to match the increased fuel demand. The limitation will be the injectors, so monitor the a/f meter or EGT to make sure you do not go lean at WOT. Do not concern yourself with how much boost you can run. The stock fuel pressure is probably 36# (vacuum off) and you probably can work your way up to 43#. Let the guage tell you when you have hit your limit. Remeber, you cannot always hear detonation. AT THIS POINT 93-OCTANE IS NOT AN OPTION Good Luck. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

Havok, Welcome. The least expensive way (in the long run, it is debatable) is to adapt the factory wiring. The best way to do it is like Randy said, trash all the factory electricals and use a programmable system. I and many have had success with the SDS system. The reason why I said the factory option being the least expensive is debatable is because many have had problems connecting the wiring and recalibrating the AFM. When you do get it running and have the urge for more HP (and you will), you are limited with what you can do. Bottom line is, if you are not fairly knowledgable with the OEm system and EFi in general, you end up $.05 & $.10 yourself to death, thinking you are saving money. I am sure many here will offer help and you can start here: http://www.zdriver.com/members/scottiegnz/scotties240zt.htm ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

Judging from the Moster tach on the dash, I would agree that is a 5" up pipe. Here is what I know about the car: It weighs 2705lbs w/driver. It has a mild-steel tube frame with 100.5" wb. Plans are to redo the frame to 25:1c specs and stretch the wb to 112". I am surpised at the current weight. The engine is a twin-turbo 274ci Stage2. The car does not have a lot of passes on it and the reported best is 1.22 60' (HOLY SLINGSHOT!) and a 7.97 ET. Do not know the mph, but I would guess at low-mid 160s. That was done at a somewhat conservative boost level of 28-29# with the RPMs limited to low-8000s. With a little more boost and higher RPMs there is more, but my cabobulator melted down at 1004rwhp. With a little more power and less weight, it should go....... . He is going to need that extra wb. I supposed Ron could relate somewhat. I know the Opel GT's nose looks like a Vette, but from the base of the windshield back, it is pure 1st-gen Z-car. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

Your nuts have to go clank when you strap yourself in this short wheelbase rocket. Regardles, what a gorgeous car. For the uninitiated, a Buick Stage2 motor is the one to die for. It is the one used in the Indy Car program and 1000+hp is common. http://www.turbobuick.com/bb/Forum13/HTML/008943.html ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

If one could get the I/C, engine, trans and electronics for $4000, I think that is a good price IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR 450hp. After all, what are the alternatives? A 450hp crate SBC will probably run $4-6K + the T-56 & induction a "standard" SBC with a supercharger is probably the same A GN with a good I/C, upgraded turbo and injectors will do it (I am working my way there) Not sure what it takes to get a 4.3L forced-induction engine to put out 450hp A L28T buildup to produce and support 450hp will be in that same price range The VG30DETT is another option The RB-series is definitely there but as Morgan ststed, the price and parts availability is an issue. If you have the $$$, what a wonderful dilemna trying to make a decision ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

Whenever you see a late-model Supra running, keep in mind that it probably weighs in at over 3700lbs with the driver. My buddy and friendly rival does not want to put a cage in his daily driver so he always hits the brakes at the top-end. His quickest 1/8-mile is 7.21 @ 97.1 and they are stronger on the top-end. This is his daily driver and we estimate it is pumping out 525RWHP from upgraded turbos & injectors, monster I/C, and the requisite electronics. This would make a killer engine for an early Z. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

See my response in the Post where I was looking for Pad Recommendations. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ

Jeromio, the 82 calipers/84 vented rotor is not quite a bolt-in but not very difficult. My memory is fuzzy and I would have to jack up the car to double check, but here goes. You need the 82 caliper bracket and mounting bolts for it to work. If I recall, on the stock setup, the bolt went through the caliper bracket and threaded into the spindle. On this setup, the threads are in the caliper bracket, so the spindle must be drilled out precisely for the bolt to pass through it to thread into the bracket. Once that is done, then the rotor needs to be cut down. Do not know how much. I just gave it to my machinist and VOILA. On the early Zs, a spacer is needed to center up the caliper over the rotor. In the case of my 71, it took 3 VERY THIN washers. Because the later Zs have a different size hat, I cannot say what it will take. Again, that is from memory and I know I probably should have documented it. If you want a verification, I will jack the car and double check but I am preety sure that is accurate. As for the KVRs, I tried only the fronts and can get lock up in a panic stop with the brakes cold, so they will serve my purpose and work much better when I do the rears and fiddle with the prop valve. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ