itzgoten Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Hey itzgoten, you and your buddy with that blue S30 didn't happen to be at Infineon Raceway a year ago in June where you? I was attending the Sonoma Classic races and got pics of two really nice S30's that sure look AWFULLY similar.... If that was you I'm quite disappointed I didn't get a more detailed look at this WONDERFUL build of yours. Gollum, It was me and my buddy! We were there about a year ago in May I believe. for that "Turn 7 Z Meet". This was our cars the day before the event.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Should check out this thread I just posted, has pics from both of your cars. If you want I can email you the full size originals. http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/101252-4th-annual-norcal-hybridz-bbq/page__p__948783__fromsearch__1?do=findComment&comment=948783 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzgoten Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 (edited) On 7/22/2011 at 9:18 PM, Gollum said: Should check out this thread I just posted, has pics from both of your cars. If you want I can email you the full size originals. http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/101252-4th-annual-norcal-hybridz-bbq/page__p__948783__fromsearch__1?do=findComment&comment=948783 Gollum, any pics from the event would be great. I forgot my camera and only had pics from my buddies camera and my camera phone (which is ****.. as we all know).. Please send them! And just wondering.. that poster you made.. did you use my buddy's blue Z? if so.. it looks like a totally different car. great photoshop work.. i am only guessing because of the exhaust size, fairlady z badge and the flares. Edited October 18, 2019 by itzgoten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I believe that's your friend's car, yes. I actually didn't do too much work to it at all, just filters and such. I didn't have a ton of time to spend on it. I attribute most of the look to the angle. I purposely played with angle width of the lens to get the right about of distortion I wanted on the pic. Though I did change the license plate for privacy's sake. I'll email the pics to you from the event, but fair warning, there's quite a few and might take a few emails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzgoten Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 I believe that's your friend's car, yes. I actually didn't do too much work to it at all, just filters and such. I didn't have a ton of time to spend on it. I attribute most of the look to the angle. I purposely played with angle width of the lens to get the right about of distortion I wanted on the pic. Though I did change the license plate for privacy's sake. I'll email the pics to you from the event, but fair warning, there's quite a few and might take a few emails. no problem.. if maybe if you have an online album somewhere and you can PM it to me? This was I can browse through them all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzgoten Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 So I finally had time yesterday and today to tear the motor down. We pulled the motor out of the car a few days ago and it just sat until I had some time.. This has to be one of the more "painful" posts because is does not feel like progress.. but still felt like I should share what I learned from my mistakes.. we pulled the fenders, headlight buckets, flares, etc AGAIN.. I'm getting the feeling that my car rather have no front end.. LOL also took off the FMIC turbo mani, intake mani pulled out.. the worst part is the turbo mani.. everything is "set" because the dump tubes are welded together so essentially it's 1 whole piece.. and space is limited.. getting to the v-bands sucked.. ripped her heart out.. so depressing.. heartless.... motor sat a few days.. and then deconstruction begins... the tear down was just bad news after bad news.. the cams are scored and I can't use them anymore. I guess I'll just need to go and get a new set.. I'm going to try and see if I can salvage the head. I spent a bunch of money on it with the head work, port and all.. the journals are slightly scuffed and maybe a half mm size scratch.. I'll see what the machine shop says. The head had some metal flakes in the oil and the hydraulic lifters were "caked" with metal shavings.. I didn't take any pics of the head torn down because my hands were dirty.. but heres the oil pan.. NASTY I pulled the pistons out and you can see the #1 rod (on the right) is badly burnt.. the crank looked that bad too and here you can see the discoloration on the crank as well.. the journals on the crank is scored to hell as well.. bah! and the bottom of the block you can see on the #2 journal on the block that the spun rod bearing backed out and made it's way into the main bearing and sored the block real bad.. the block is done for as well.. so all said and done at the end of the day.. this is what I'll end up needing.. block, crank, 1 new rod, piston rings, oil pump, cams and I'll see if i can salvage the head. if not then I'll need a new head have it ported (again) and also have the exhaust side milled +1mm over because the exhaust valves are +1mm FML!! total fail.. I guess you build and learn.. first motor build ever so this was expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six_Shooter Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Is the main cap also damaged? If it was me, I'd clean up that gouge and check for roundness, then as long as it was still round, I'd likely re-use that block, as long as there wasn't any other significant damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzgoten Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 Is the main cap also damaged? If it was me, I'd clean up that gouge and check for roundness, then as long as it was still round, I'd likely re-use that block, as long as there wasn't any other significant damage. I don't recall any damage to the main caps at all.. I'll go back and take a look again.. you think with that much damage on the journal it's still salvage able? I'm just skeptical.. maybe I'll have the machine shop look at it and see what they say.. thanks for the input. I'll get word back in a week or so after I send it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six_Shooter Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) I don't recall any damage to the main caps at all.. I'll go back and take a look again.. you think with that much damage on the journal it's still salvage able? I'm just skeptical.. maybe I'll have the machine shop look at it and see what they say.. thanks for the input. I'll get word back in a week or so after I send it out. At the very least I would have a machine shop look at it and suggest a course of action. I know for me, as long as there was no severe damage to the main cap, I would clean it up and re-use it but I do tend to live a little "on the edge" according to some people. lol Edited July 31, 2011 by Six_Shooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzgoten Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) I had my tuner look at it sand he didn't even let me finish.. His immediate answer was "new block" Ultimately it comes down to "do you want spend all that money if it blows again? Or you just want to do it right?" And from where I'm standing I don't feel like doing all of this a 3rd time.. New block it is! Edited August 1, 2011 by itzgoten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt K Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) I think you're wasting your money. I put down 522 on pump gas with a stock longblock...had a Tomei 1.2mm headgasket, HKS 264 cams, Tomei adjustable cam gears & ARP head studs as my only non-OEM internal parts. I beat on that motor for 5 years, and 2 years after selling it, it's still running hard. No headwork whatsoever. That was with a Full-Race GT3567R turbo. I've seen a lot of guys spend lots of cash having a bulletproof SR built, only to have some minor inattention to detail kill them. How cheap is a replacement (stock) engine? How many can you get for the same price as building a "bulletproof" one? I can get 6-8 engines for the price of building just one SR the "right" way. If I recall correctly, the highest HP stock internal SR put on 800-ish to the wheels. I's drop in a stock motor with some head studs & a metal head gasket, and spend your time getting it tuned well. Then, if it dies, toss in another... I did build a race SR a few years back. It sat in my crate for 2 years before I sold it off...my stock engine never died, so I never needed the race motor. Fully ported head, Tomei solid lifter with 272 12.5mm cams, Eagle rods, Wiseco pistons, Nismo bearings, knife edged crank, balanced, all ARP studs (mains, head, etc), new oil pump & timing set...blah blah blah. Sure, it would have made more power, but at my level I killed an OS Giken full 1-5 Crossmission (purchased new-died in 5,000 miles), OS Giken triple plate (also new, died at the same time). There went $7500 down the drain! I decided I had my fun, and detuned my setup to a "small" GT2871R .64 AR & 740cc injectors (from the 1000cc I was running)...it was WAY more fun to drive. Not as fast, but I didn't break everything anymore. I also think you may want to re-evaluate who's been building your engines...no offense! Edited August 2, 2011 by Matt K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzgoten Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 Matt, I see where you are coming from.. But here is my point of view. First and foremost the person building the motor is me and my brother. With the support of his shop for space and time everything I am doing is on me. If you read the posts without the pictured you'll see me explaining that this is my first build and I am learning from this build. Am I a mechanic? Hell no. Heck, I don't even like getting my hands dirty. I just like to drive and race. So if there's anyone to blame then I would be the one. Second, everyone makes mistakes. I've read many posts here on HBZ where their SR build went bad. I'm just humble enough to post mistures and admit my ignorance and lack of experience. I could have just not posted anything and pretended it all alright. But guess what.. That's not how I roll. Third, this isn't being built "for fun" I have fun driving but I plan on racing competitvly when its all done and the Z will be in the GT1 class racing againt porsches, ferraris, vettes and even some vipers.. Will I win? That's another story. But I would love to try. Young asian kid racing with a buncha old white guys. LOL Lastly, if I didn't do this then I wouldn't feel accomplished. I could have slapped this twin scroll mani on my old stock SR but that isn't what I wanted. If I went on everyones post bashing their dreams then these type of forums wouldn't exsist. That's just like everyone saying. "Why go SR when you can just put a LSx motor in it?" Because I don't want a shitty LSx I want my SR. So why ask why. Better to inspire others or not say anything at all. I've read your posts and you know your stuff. But at the end of the day I'm not you. If you did 500+ on pump gas then sweet. But on 91 here I've never seen a SR do over 400 without blowing. The tranny can't even handle 400hp. And I beg you to show me a stock internal SR doing 800. I am doubtful. Anywhere else I've read the SR will do about 400 stock at best and I'm aiming for 600+ on e85. But I gotta make 400 without blowing before I can make 600. And I kind of did take offense. I'd hope for words encouragement instead of words of doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 (edited) I'm not one who's extremely knowledgeable about SR motors, but I'd like to bring hopefully a balanced view of the situations to the table. I read what Matt said and I didn't think he was attacking you in any way. Never once did he come at you telling you what you "should have done" or demeaning you for the choices you've made. He was simply asking for clarification because he has experience that would have lead HIM down a different road, that's all. I see the same stuff with the L motors all the time. People want to "build it right" and attempt to build a shortblock that will hold 600+hp, then they end up blowing up the motor before they even reach 400. Well sad to say plenty of people make 400 on junkyard longblocks. OEM's tend to build motors REALLY WELL. For some of us we'd rather just take our chances with a motor that's never been opened than take our chances at screwing up something worth a lot of money. If it were me, I'd get even more pride from going out there and racing in GT1 with a factory built shortblock/longblock. All the better to prove it's never the parts the win a race, but the builder and the driver. But that's just me. If you were just to say "I need to do this for me since I've never built a motor" then 99% of the people on this board would understand and let you have at it. When 1faztZ wanted to chop up KA heads to throw onto a L motor "just cuz" most people encouraged him, and naysayers were in the minority. But to be fair to Matt, I've read this whole thread an I don't remember you saying anything to that affect, so his comments should never have been taken as a personal attack, just an innocent inquiry. On another note: If you're going to run E85 I'd highly suggest installing the GM sensor and gauge that shows your fuel content percentages, so you know exactly what ethanol mixture you're burning. Ethanol mixes will fluctuate a good 15% throughout the year which is more than enough to be loosing considerable power, or be breaking parts. Most people just make sure to tune on something closer to E70 then just give up the power they're loosing on E85, but having a meter read out allows you to adjust on the fly with each tank to make sure you've got reliable HP. Edited August 3, 2011 by Gollum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzgoten Posted August 3, 2011 Author Share Posted August 3, 2011 Gollum I know Matt wasn't "attacking" me. But to tell me not to build it kind of sucked to hear. At this point I'm too invested to turn back. So if I had to spend another thousand I guess I will. On a lighter note.. I sent out my cams, pistons and a rod. Going to see what deal I can get. A guy at Brian Crower said he'll work out a deal if the parts aren't repairable. Let's hope I get some good news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitz17 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Although I do not think Matt was disrespectful, to tell someone who's build, which already took a unfortunate direction, is a "waste his money" is like kicking someone who is already on ground. Itzgoten obviously has a lot of pride in what he is doing with his Z, and took the time to share something new on this site. Some people love to do something different, and I would never say they are wasting their money if it is what they believe in. He is the first to admit he overlooked a few things, but I would not recommend him to go through 6-8 motors, especially if he does not like to get his hands dirty. His mistakes and corrections may lead for another person's SR20 build to be successful. His brother's shop is reputable in the area, and does not need to be reevaluated. Everyone makes mistakes, regardless if it it was his or the shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt K Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Nope, not attacking you...Like I said, I had to learn this lesson too. My max power was made through an OS Giken (race built) Crossmission, not a stock transmission, along with an OS Giken triple plate non-dampered clutch. NO way will an production SR mission last long over 400hp. As it was, I killed my Crossmission & triple plate too. I wanted to eventually go with a Viper-spec T56 transmission, with an adapter plate...but wound up detuning it & eventually getting rid of everything. Here are a few sites showing stock internals holding up over 500 rwhp. http://www.240sxforums.com/forums/sr20de-det/14128-max-hp-sr20det-w-stock-internals.html http://www.freshalloy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94790&page=2 http://pittspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18072 http://zilvia.net/f/chat/286753-sr20det-world-record-pump-gas.html The big thing that will kill any engine with a quickness is poor tuning. I kept my A/F ratio around 11.5-11.7 at full boost in high gear, and EGTs under 1000 degrees C at full boost on sustained runs. I was also using a large Greddy oil cooler setup, which alone dropped my cruising EGTs by 100 degrees C. I datalogged everything, to ensure I could keep fine tuning out any issues. I still had working air conditioning too...We street tuned for real world results, and I only went to the local dyno at Ototech to see what level it was at. I'm just trying to relay to you that at your desired level of power, you don't NEED to spend on a built engine. You'd probably be better off selling most of the stuff & investing in a few decent OEM SR's. It's really frustrating...I've been there too. My first SR had been driven for an extended period of time with a blown headgasket. The previous owner literally removed the head, coated the replacement gasket with RTV on both sides, and slapped it back together. When I pulled it to go with a metal headgasket for insurance, the block was ruined already. Superheated steam in the combustion chambers had deteriorated the cylinder walls at the top, and they were eroded away maybe 1/8" in two cylinders. I picked up another with only 39,000 KM of documented miles (paid about twice as much as usual) and started building my race motor...I wound up spending about $8500 building that race motor...but the stock motor held up so nicely, I couldn't justify pulling it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzgoten Posted August 3, 2011 Author Share Posted August 3, 2011 Matt, Sad to say I sold my perfectly working stock SR making a clean 250hp on stock everything w/ minor bolt-ons to fund this build. I'm going for as much HP as possible. But I don't want big HP over night. I'm going to try for a good 400-450 for a year then go e85. Before my setup blew my tuner said I can make an easy 500 w/ advanced timing (we left it relatively stock so it can break in). So I'm sure I'll hit 500-550 with what I have.. And I'm praying for a lot more HP when e85.. when I'm ready and the engine is broken in and kinks worked out. My old motor was CHERRY and bought in Japan and cut off and sent to me. It was a low mileage motor owned by an older person. Took me 6 months to get.. but that is said and done. If I could have gone back in time I wouldn't have sold it knowing that this would happen. Either way I'm proceeding with the build. I'm going to replace whatever broke and I'll try again. Updates in a few weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six_Shooter Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I think if it was me at this stage, I would drop a stock SR20 into the car with all the good external bits, drive it, tune it, abuse it, and build a new SR, to what I wanted. That way you can enjoy the car, while building a long block that will/should make more power. But then again, I'm a fan of boosting stock engines that "can't be" or "shouldn't be boosted." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzgoten Posted August 3, 2011 Author Share Posted August 3, 2011 I think if it was me at this stage, I would drop a stock SR20 into the car with all the good external bits, drive it, tune it, abuse it, and build a new SR, to what I wanted. That way you can enjoy the car, while building a long block that will/should make more power. But then again, I'm a fan of boosting stock engines that "can't be" or "shouldn't be boosted." Yea, tell me about it. As I said earlier.. I totally regret selling my perfectly good SR. If I had kept it I would have put that in instead and driving that around. But since I sold it.. I'm SOL driving a Ford Excursion killing all of my gas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six_Shooter Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Yea, tell me about it. As I said earlier.. I totally regret selling my perfectly good SR. If I had kept it I would have put that in instead and driving that around. But since I sold it.. I'm SOL driving a Ford Excursion killing all of my gas... Can you find another stock long block cheap? Or at least cheap-ish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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