Sam280Z Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) spoke too soon again. Sync loss started happening again today. I'm pulling my hair out... Reading: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_tooth_logger.html Edited January 30, 2012 by Sam280Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FricFrac Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Did you try adjusting R52,56 on the main board and R11,32 on 3X? Could be you are on the hairy edge of them triggering.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam280Z Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) I did double check the settings and they are set as per the MS3 manual. I went back through all of my old data logs and found that it started on the 16th. The same day I installed new firmware. I had no sync losses on the way in to work this morning. If they start up again, I will revert back to the old firmware. Forgot to note that I also reduced the dwell duty from 50% to 25% this morning. Edited January 31, 2012 by Sam280Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam280Z Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 2 days with no sync loss. I'm wondering if the dwell settings had anything to do with it. Will change back to 50% when I have some time to test even though I don't understand how that could cause loss of sync. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FricFrac Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I did double check the settings and they are set as per the MS3 manual. I went back through all of my old data logs and found that it started on the 16th. The same day I installed new firmware. I had no sync losses on the way in to work this morning. If they start up again, I will revert back to the old firmware. Forgot to note that I also reduced the dwell duty from 50% to 25% this morning. The manual gives you a default setting to get it in the ballpark.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam280Z Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Well I'll have to mess with it some more. Random sync loss came back on Sunday. Not as frequent, but very annoying. I had not changed anything at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam280Z Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 And now I have a MAP sensor problem. http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=43918 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam280Z Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 MAP sensor problem fixed. MapDaddy surface mount IC detached from PCB. New one installed and it is working again. Still fighting sync loss. It comes and goes. See my thread at MSextra: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=43936 It seems to happen at the same place on the trigger wheel almost every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam280Z Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Pretty sure I'm dealing with a noise issue. Switching the Crane HI-6 to single spark has helped a lot, but I'm still getting sync loss at weird times. It seems to happen most often if I run the car for a while, turn it off for a few minutes, then get going again. After a while of more running it starts up again. I'm playing with the pots per: http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_articles/vrsensor/megasquirt_vr_index.htm Problem is, it is so intermittent, I can't be sure of any changes' effects immediately. Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam280Z Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 FIXED!!! Tried everything I could think of. Re-routed wires, re-did ignition wiring, consolidated even more grounds, upgraded chassis ground strap, turned off the multi-spark, and did innumerable fiddling with conditioning circuit pots. Did everything one at a time. Some had no improvements. Others had minor improvements, but none completely eliminated the sync loss. Finally, I replaced the sparkplug wires with the old magnacores and lo and behold - no sync loss for 3 days. Yesterday, I put on a set of NGK wires. Again, no sync loss. I have reset the pots to the recommended settings with no issues - even with the multi-spark back on. I have a large capacitor (28 f) coming that I am going to put on the power supply and I will retest the MSD wires. Thanks to everyone who tried to hep out with this. Hopefully the issue is gone permanently... Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FricFrac Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 A large cap isn't good for filtering noise. I'm assuming you are using a stiffening cap for car audio? Those are typically for large current draw for transients. You want a 1uF or 0.1uF cap. I recomend a 630V poly cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam280Z Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 A large cap isn't good for filtering noise. I'm assuming you are using a stiffening cap for car audio? Those are typically for large current draw for transients. You want a 1uF or 0.1uF cap. I recomend a 630V poly cap. The large cap is what was recommended by Crane when the power lead on the Hi-6 is extended. It is a Crane part. It also came with some MOVs to install on solenoids. Where would the smaller cap go? On the battery, MS power, other? Thanks, Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FricFrac Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) You want to cancel out the noise as close to the source as possible. Put the cap from the + side of the coil to ground. You can hook it up to the chasis but personally I'd probably run a ground wire from the battery to the body where you attached to the chasis. I really think running a wiring harness in an engine bay without shielded wires is a really bad idea. Even the stock harness at least shields the O2 sensor and CAS sensor - the DIY harness has nothing shielded. A shielded cable basically takes any noise that would be induced into the signal wire and it takes it instead along the outside shield and where it gets shorted out to ground at one end. There are enough challenges getting everything up and running let alone having to fight with EMI issues.... MOVs are for taking care of voltage spikes not typically canceling noise - not sure why they would use those on the solenoids? Typically you would use a snubber diode or cap for back EMF noise from a solenoid. You have a MOV built into your Mega Squirt PCB. The large cap would be to supply a large current surge to the coil charging it more quickly and giving you a hotter spark (hopefully....) but not for noise supression. Edited March 21, 2012 by FricFrac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam280Z Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 It appears that the problem was the use of non-resistor plugs. See my post at MSExtra: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=45296 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam280Z Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 A couple of weeks ago, my HG blew. Turns out to be improper installation by the idiot that assembled the engine (me). I used pieces from two different MLS head gaskets to get the required 1.5mm thickness and neglected to alternate the layers properly (embossed, shim, embossed, shim, embossed) and had the two shims (and two embossed) next to each other. This lasted for two years before it gave up. I think it explains the slight loss of coolant over time that I was attributing to evaporation because Nothing showed up with a pressure test of the cooling system. Right before the HG blew, I has started a project to move the injectors from the TB's to the intake at the head. Basically, I cut a flange from a stock manifold and welded it to a cannon manifold and opened the injector ports form 11mm to 14mm. I have also taken the opportunity to add vacuum ports in each runner to assist in balancing the TBs and a port for the IAT sensor in the 5th runner. I was having a real bitch of time tuning transients because (I assume) the large injectors were so far from the head and the fuel was wetting the walls excessively and extremely long delays between changing inputs and subsequent changes in AFR (nearly 1s lambda delay). I will be using a set of 19lb injectors at the head and the larger 60lb injectors in the TBs with staged injection. Hopefully this will help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam280Z Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Link to larger pics: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/110595327894846974778/albums/5827006289261665345 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam280Z Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 Well it is done and I'm driving it again. I don't know if it is the balance tube, smaller injectors, or the new placement of the injectors - but it runs much better that it ever has before. The engine is way more responsive and results of tuning changes are much more repeatable. The turbo spools quicker off the line and the MAP dropped about 5kPa at idle. When the HG blew I had switched algorithms from Speed Density to Alpha N with another VE table set up to multiply MAP per this post: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=42398&p=344034&hilit=ITB+turbo#p324832 It was working better than just SD but not nearly as well as it is working now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95i4 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Sam -- im deciding now b/t MS2 and MS3, Im curious if you feel that the sequential injection is worth the extra expense and effort, for a mild street build. With peak power potential being the same, the guys at DIY say he sequential injection can lead to a smoother idle and better light throttle drivability, but im not sure that is worth the added effort. What are your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam280Z Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 I'd need to know much more about the engine components you plan to use to tell you if sequential would be worth it . You have so much more room for easy upgrading with the MS3 & MS3X than the MS2 provides. THe only additional effort required to go to sequential is running 6 wires to the injectors instead of 2. I would say that you will eventually have more effort with the MS2 by the time you start implementing various options, but less expense. If I were in your shoes, I would take a serious look at the MS3Pro. Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Sam ~ You're running staged injection but are they both running the same fuel source? Also, are you running both banks sequential? From what I understand, even though MS3X how supports sequential V12 operation, it doesn't support staged 6 cylinder sequential, since the banking happens between MS3X outputs versus V3 outputs. Overall I'm glad I found this thread and look forward to following where it goes, and maybe pick your brain down the road. I'm hoping to finally bite the bullet on MS this year and will most likely end up with a MS3X mostly to save time which I don't have a ton of these days. The complication for me is deciding how I want to configure it at first, considering where I want to go down the road. Eventually I'm going to build up a second L motor with staged injection, one bank being pump gas, the other being E85. A lot about what I want to do will be unconventional and I'm not even sure MS3X can control everything I want to do, but it'll get the job done one way or another. I'll probably just end up triggering the stock dizzy/ignitor/coil like a MS2 setup, just with sequential fuel, since I'll have it. Again, thanks for taking the time to write all this up, and please keep us updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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