build after 24 years

[munters]

XNKE Thanks for your inputs.

The Z market here is extreemly small. 240 arrived 43 times in Switzerland for example if I'm not wrong informed.

To find parts not so easy and just one Racer with some knowledge.

I think I have to look for parts and shops outside of the country anyways.

HS-30H

Youre right it is a Europe version with a 5 Gear.

What do you mean with Paper you can help?

and do you know someone with a Z not "Factory like" in Switzerland?

[munters]

After another 6 Month of reading and preparation the rebuild finaly started.

Disassembled the hole suspension.

The first decisions made are

Install new Springs From I don't know yet and Illumina Shocks from Tokico

Bigger front break kit and Rear Disc conversion and all bushings in urethan.

Pictures to come

[clutchdust]

The thing that's been bothering me about your build is having to stick with a factory exhaust casting. This is seriously going to restrict how much power you can build in any engine. So my question is, will this be a one-time inspection? Or will the officials inspect your car annually? If it's a one-time thing, then just slap on whatever they want to see, pass, drive home and put good stuff on. If this will be an annual inspection, you may want to consider something like THIS for the stock manifold. You can do both intake and exhaust.

[Pharaohabq]

Munter glad to see you're back. You might consider the Arizona Zcar suspension/brakes setup. it's really nice stuff. The swap for inspections part you might consider. Alternately, you might look into what the regulations are for Specialty or Modified cars. some governments make wide allowances for classic/vintage cars. I'm really interrested in seeing what you end up doing. Hope you'll post pictures.

[munters]

I do need to show the car every 2 years except if it can pass as classic car. Then I would need to show the car every 6 years but would be allowed to drive only 3000 miles /year.

Im at the F1 Race in Valencia at the moment and will be back next week with the ideas i wrote down.

[Pharaohabq]

what is the penalty for overmilage?

[munters]

if it's to mutch you loose the classic car status and go back to test every 2 years.

[Tony D]

The thing that's been bothering me about your build is having to stick with a factory exhaust casting. This is seriously going to restrict how much power you can build in any engine. So my question is, will this be a one-time inspection? Or will the officials inspect your car annually? If it's a one-time thing, then just slap on whatever they want to see, pass, drive home and put good stuff on. If this will be an annual inspection, you may want to consider something like THIS for the stock manifold. You can do both intake and exhaust.

 

 

This is really overblown. The factory cast iron exhaust manifold isn't as bad as you make it out to be--and with a little carbide work to remove some ovbiousl flow restrictions can be a VERY good manifold with nobody being the wiser.

 

This goes for both N/A and Turbo Manifolds. You really have to look at what power he's looking to make as "Seriously Restrict" may be (is) quite a bit of overstatement IMO. With 150+RWHP from unported stock manifolds a matter of no issue whatsoever, and quite a few 170 and 180HP cars out there with ported stock cast steel manifolds exactly how much horsepower is his goal?

 

 

The original stated purpose of 'mild cam and mild porting' would easily come within that realm. And even the Rebello "Purist 2.7" (CRANK HP RATED--maybe 200-210 RWHP at best!) would not suffer much of a loss with a stock cast steel ported manifold running appropriately sized 'replica exhaust' of 75mm mandrel bent tubing. The headers aren't giving you 100HP like on a big block Chevy. Maybe 1/3 that if you are lucky. Realistically, maybe 15HP. The power really is in the head, and not what you bolt on to it. Review the difference between SU's and Webers on Scott Burkhardt's build, it's a good example.

 

For me, 15-20HP is not a 'serious restriction' when you consider the ease of passing through any inspection, any time. If it's street-driven and not a full time racer...it's really spending money and effort on bits that you remove all the time. What a pain! Easiest to comply and remain under the radar. The tuning of the engine and suspension will always be more important than a single bolt-on component external to the engine. Always.

 

<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>And the Kennemetal process will run him $450+ shipping two ways. There's almost nothing you can't reach in the stock manifold with a standard carbide, a 6" carbide, and a standard set of cartridge rolls. An old flexible shaft collet head, connected to an old washing machine motor will return the same results for far less money and time expended. Extrude Hone stock EFI manifold, maybe... Turbo Hot Side Housing, yes. </div><div><br></div><div>The exhaust manifold? Meh, lots of cost and no discernable gain from what you can do on your own! If you have a welder that can bulk up some of the outside areas to allow a better match porting (see JeffP's exhaust manifold page on what he did near the head flange area on his turbo manifold) and you will have something that is amazingly good in flow for what it cost!</div>

Edited June 25, 2012 by Tony D

[BlueStag]

I'm a bit further with my research on how to...

There is still a problem. I can not install any headers. Is there a way to "open" the stock manifold to flow better?

I could not find to much informations on that.

 

There is a long way of research and calculations before I can even Start to buy parts

 

The summary till now:

Rebello = 6k + shippement 1k or 2k

 

Bore and hone here 2K

Head here (no porting involved) 2k

Pistons Crank Rods here 2k

Parts for Head incl. Cam here 500

Build the engine here without porting 6500$

 

Compared to a rebello between 6k and 8k incl. ported head and tuned carbs.

Looks like the engine will be shipped to the US and back.

 

Sort of crazy but makes sense.

Any thoughts?

 

Find an Alfa Montreal.

[munters]

This is really overblown. The factory cast iron exhaust manifold isn't as bad as you make it out to be--and with a little carbide work to remove some ovbiousl flow restrictions can be a VERY good manifold with nobody being the wiser.

 

This goes for both N/A and Turbo Manifolds. You really have to look at what power he's looking to make as "Seriously Restrict" may be (is) quite a bit of overstatement IMO. With 150+RWHP from unported stock manifolds a matter of no issue whatsoever, and quite a few 170 and 180HP cars out there with ported stock cast steel manifolds exactly how much horsepower is his goal?

 

 

The original stated purpose of 'mild cam and mild porting' would easily come within that realm. And even the Rebello "Purist 2.7" (CRANK HP RATED--maybe 200-210 RWHP at best!) would not suffer much of a loss with a stock cast steel ported manifold running appropriately sized 'replica exhaust' of 75mm mandrel bent tubing. The headers aren't giving you 100HP like on a big block Chevy. Maybe 1/3 that if you are lucky. Realistically, maybe 15HP. The power really is in the head, and not what you bolt on to it. Review the difference between SU's and Webers on Scott Burkhardt's build, it's a good example.

 

For me, 15-20HP is not a 'serious restriction' when you consider the ease of passing through any inspection, any time. If it's street-driven and not a full time racer...it's really spending money and effort on bits that you remove all the time. What a pain! Easiest to comply and remain under the radar. The tuning of the engine and suspension will always be more important than a single bolt-on component external to the engine. Always.

 

<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>And the Kennemetal process will run him $450+ shipping two ways. There's almost nothing you can't reach in the stock manifold with a standard carbide, a 6" carbide, and a standard set of cartridge rolls. An old flexible shaft collet head, connected to an old washing machine motor will return the same results for far less money and time expended. Extrude Hone stock EFI manifold, maybe... Turbo Hot Side Housing, yes. </div><div><br></div><div>The exhaust manifold? Meh, lots of cost and no discernable gain from what you can do on your own! If you have a welder that can bulk up some of the outside areas to allow a better match porting (see JeffP's exhaust manifold page on what he did near the head flange area on his turbo manifold) and you will have something that is amazingly good in flow for what it cost!</div>

 

I thought exactly the same. I do need to change just the wheels and the muffler on my 59 Corvette every 6 years and this is already enough. If I loose a bit oh well. that's live. I like to do work on my car with a sense behind it but not otherwise.

[munters]

Find an Alfa Montreal.

 

If I wanted a Montreal I would have one.

[motomanmike]

I'm pretty confident it will be a better motor if you shipped it to rebello. How is this build coming along?

[HowlerMonkey]

TonyD is correct.

 

The stock manifolding is not bad at all and I would guess that there is one factory manifold which flows a little better than the rest.

 

There are also "down pipes" that are different dimensions depending on the year and I also believe that one would flow better than the rest but I don't know which one.

[munters]

Finally Some Pictures.

 

All the disasemble is done

 

 

Now the cleaning, aranging and organizing everything starts.

Then get down to the bare metal.

Started to build a rotisserie with two Motorlifts. will see how this works out.

[munters]

Startet with the underbody and there is a lot of Tectyl (3mm to 5mm.) Heating it up and scraping is a lot of work.

 

The body shop did a really bad job 15 years ago before the body went to sleep till now.

Many hidden rosty parts to be repaired again. (Grr paid 10'000 $ at that time for the body shop.)

 

They did a good job at the back but a really bad one in the front.

Like two people worked on it.

 

There are up to 3 layers of metal.

This time Im going to do it myself.

 

To bad I tought I could go to the bare metal and bring it to the paint shop.

 

So the whole mecanical part of the rebuild is a bit on hold.

The list is huge there. roughly 8K$ of parts till now without the engine.

 

I heard already a few times are you out of your mind?

maybe I am. But this was my first car. I don't care it's like go back in time.

Some people want young GF and I want my first car back

[munters]

The whole project is still on hold because I cant find parts like the inner fender to do the repair as you can see. This work would never pass the government inspection. The crazy thing is I could find a rolling chassis, but the transport to europe is around 4500$.

I'm still hoping to find basicly the whole front to exchange everything.

[munters]

The Project is not dead and now even advancing.

 

Finally I found a body shop 600 Miles away to redo the body. Delivered last week and should be back in a few month.

 

In the meanwhile all the mechanical parts are powdercoated and reassembled.

Steering overholed, all shafts redone, the suspension all done, big brake kit intalled.

 

The things on the to do list is finally getting smaller.

 

At the moment disassemble all the electric components like combi switch (nearly done), speedo, tach, clock and so on.

 

The engine is on the way as well.

After realizing the costs for a rebello is lower then stroking it myself with new parts and honing labor. I will have a Rebello in 6 to 8 weeks.

[Pharaohabq]

Munters - Hey, Wow, is that metal welded over bad rusted metal?  It's hard to tell from the picture. It doesn't look right in any case.  I hope that your new body shop can handle it.  There are a lot of places that can ship you new or used body panels for not too much.  I'd imagine Rebello could also throw some in the box too when they ship you back your engine.  It may be a lot cheaper to have rebello source an engine here, rather than shipping them yours. That way you'd also have yours as a "spare" and the rebello built engine as the primary. It should be much cheaper than shipping.  Let us know what we can help you source. Tabco.com makes a lot of S30 body panels for instance.

[munters]

Yup The metal was welded from both sides over the rust. The new Bodyshop is one of the few Z body specialist's in Europe (at least payable).

The problem with the bodypannels is, I needed the front inner fenders (between the engine bay and wheel) and this is not easy to find and the Firewall. but this guy now knows what he is doing he has over 20z in his garage to rebuild the body. Cool guy. and he does cool work as well. At least what I could see.

 

About the Rebello, Yes the shipping from here to the us would have been 1k$ per way whitch doesn't make sence so I just sent my tripples, cast exhaust manifold to port, distributor and the MSD. He sources the rest of the engine in the US. (nobody wants an L24 anyways, but all the L28). Good for me.

 

Here a pic of the Light Combi Switch disassembled if someone wants to see how it looks in pcs. a bit blurry and before cleaning.

[grretc]

Did you send it to Martin in France?