Coil-over install - sectioned struts

[redneck1545]

I started sectioning my struts and prepparing for my coil-over install and thought I'd post my experiences and pose some questions.

 

I purchased a set of Tokico struts part numbers TOHZ3015 and TOHZ3099. 2.5" diameter springs by 10" length 225/lb and 250/lb. 5" threaded sleeves with adjustable collars. I then purchased the Techno Toy Tuning weld-in camber plates and top hats with bearings.

 

So question one, my threaded sleeves have no anodizing on the threads and blue anodizing inside indicating they are pretty worn. The threaded collar is not very tight on the threads and the threaded sleeve is not very tight in the strut housing. I was told this could be because they are 280z threaded sleeves and I have an early 260z and the play in the sleeve is not really that big of a deal and is nothing I should worry about. The part I am worried about is the play in the threaded collar. Is everyone elses adjusting collars have a fair amount of play in them when screwed on the threaded sleeve? Should I look into buying a new set of the correct diameter threaded sleeves?

 

Question two, One of my 10" long springs is about 3/8" longer than the rest of the set. Will this cause handling issues or can I simply lower the adjusting collar when installed on the car to get the proper right height as al the other springs? Should I consider buying new springs?

 

 

Ok on with the install,

 

I followed the instructions listed in Johnc's website at BetaMotorsports.com

 

I am only sectioning the front strut tubes as I am doing a Q45 r-200 rear end install and using Techno Toy Tuning's custom strut tubes and they will fabricate a custom strut housing to fit my rear strut so I'm only going to be showing and asking questions about the front tubes.

 

I cut off the brake brackets and lower spring perch.

Don't try to grind the entire bracket down smooth with the strut housing as you will waste time and grinding wheels. All you need to do is cut into the spot welds on the brake braket and then remove the braket with a hammer. Using an angle grinder with a cutting wheel SLOWLY cut into the spring perch just above the weld being careful not cut into the strut housing. Again using the trusty hammer smack the perch all the way off the strut housing. Using about an 80grit flap disc smooth out the weld the perch was attached with. Again take your time, you do not want to thin the strut housing tube.

 

Following the instructions on betamotorsports measure 6.5" up from the top of the spindle housing Opposite of the spindle and make a mark.

Make a scribe into the metal and then place a tubing cutter on the scribe. I bought my tubing cutter from lowes for 20 bucks. You need one big enough to cut through 2" pipe. Do not try to do this with a chop saw or sawzall. These cuts need to be perfectly perpendicular and only a metal lathe or tubing cutter will do the job right.

Placing the strut housing in a vice take the tubing cutter and make the first round. The first cut needs to be looked at VERY CLOSELY as the tubing cutter will sometimes want to "spiral" down the strut housing instead of creating a nice perpendicular cut. Slowly tighten the cutter after about every 3 or 4 revolutions.

You should end up with two pieces when its all said and done.

 

You need a bastard file to take out the burrs from the tubing cutter. I chose to buy one with a curved side and a flat side. Makes things a bit easier.

We will do the beveling later on but for now just get the burrs out of the way and flaten out the rough spots on the top.

You want to do this for each side of the strut housing.

 

Now that the cut openings are clean we can slide in the actual strut.

Now we need to figure out exactly how much of the strut housing we are going to remove and to find that out we slide in the strut to the lower half of the housing and make a mark on the strut tube but make sure the strut is ALL the way in the lower half

 

Remove the strut from the lower half and slide it in the upper part of the housing. Make sure the gland nut is all the way tight on the upper strut housing. Make a mark or light scribe.

 

Now here's where I had a mini heart attack...saying to myself, wait, somethings not right...Keep in mind I haven't sectioned anything yet, merely cut the strut tube in half.

 

When I ordered the camber plate tops I told them I was getting them for the front but they only sent the bushing adapter for the rear struts so I assumed the thin threaded struts were the front. It was only later after I came back inside and hopped on here that I found out the 3015 struts are for the rear and the 3099 are the front struts. Ok back to work.

 

 

Using the same steps above, and the correct strut make your scribes. The scribe on the lower half should be HIGHER then the scribe made by the top half of the strut. You want to measure the distance between those scribes in order to find out how much of the lower portion of the top half of the strut housing to remove. Mine measured right about 1-3/16" of an inch.

 

Whatever your's measures DO NOT REMOVE THAT EXACT AMOUNT! Your leaving yourself with the very real possibility of cutting your strut housings TOO SHORT! I will probably remove 1-1/16" leaving me about an 1/8" worth of play. This play will allow me to buy a washer that is about 1/8" thick and stick it to the bottom of the strut before sliding it in the strut housing and will take up the slack in the play. Installing washers is a much easier task then pulling out the ole' strut housing stretchers and trying to lengthen your overly short strut tube.

 

There are so many write-ups on how to install coil-overs and section struts but they all say the same thing, remove 1-2" of the top half of the strut tube depending on how much you want to lower the car. Well in my case and many others im sure, they have said well hell I want the thing to sit as low as it can and cut the 2" off of the strut tube. In my case if I would have arbitrarily decided on cutting 2" then I would have ended up with a strut housing that was about 3/4" too short and an elevated heart rate.

 

So hopefully this method and pictorial will be a guide to some who are still warry about exactly how much strut housing to remove.

 

Ok so now that all thats straightened out back to the questions...

 

Camber plate tops-

Do I need to call Gabe at TTT and ask for a bushing for the monoball assembly? The bushing and nut only fit the back struts and Im only installing the plates up front. The front struts have thicker threads and If I" just threaded the nut on that was supplied by Tokico there would be considerable slack in the strut rod and monoball bushing assembly.

 

Top hats and torrington needle bearings-

Do the needle bearings sit directly on the bottom side of the anodized monoball assembly or is there supposed to be another washer or bushing that the bearings seat to? You can see in the above pics the bearings would simply sit on the bottom side of the plate housing the monoball assembly. Is this correct or am I missing something?

 

Thanks

[RebekahsZ]

I didn't use this kit, so I only have a few thoughts. I wouldn't worry about the lack of anodyzing-it scratches off when you adjust the threaded collar anyway. There will be a little play between the spring threaded collar and the strut tube, but I don't know just how much you have. I would think that as long as it doesn't fall off of the seat, you should be OK-it stays put thanks to the weight of the car. My threaded lower seat has virtually no play in the thread pitch as compared to the threaded collar, so that makes me think they sold you junk. On the different length springs: I would be concerned that the odd-ball may not be the rate that they quoted you-is the spring rate marked on the spring in some way? It won't affect performance if one spring is a little longer than the others. I set my ride height by moving up or down equally. If you have an odd-length spring, you will just have to remember which one it it-I'd rather have them all the same. My S10 truck does not have an equal ride height even from the factory and no one has commented on it-it only bothers me.

[Xylemer]

Great write up! There is a lot of information out there about sectioning, but some of it is vague at best.

I am the person that sold you the threaded sleeves. Those sleeves are not made specifically for a Z or for any specific suspension. They are just 2" dia threaded sleeves. Also, the anodizing was removed by me, not worn off. I was not a big fan of the blue, so I stripped it off.

As for the loose threaded collars, those particular collars use a set screw to lock it in place. From my understanding, they were always loose fitting. Once locked in place, they shouldn't move. Collars that fit too tight are a pain in the butt, especially when adjustment is needed.

I hope you are not disappointed with your purchase. I did not hear back from you, so I assumed you were happy with the items. I purchased the items used, so I cannot say exactly have they should fit. I can say I would have used them without question, if I had not went a different route.

Keep up the great posts. I look forward to watching your build.

Thanks,

Andy

[BluDestiny]

My s13 collars were a little lose( like you could shake and hear a rattle) but once you locked them in place they stay in place.

 

I think you got strut tubes that are a little big, early s30's have a smaller dia. tube.

 

Found the measurements, courtesy of JohnC

 

Not true. The ID of the 280Z strut tubes is larger then the ID of the 240Z strut tubes. I just pulled down a clean, media blasted front 240Z and front 280Z strut tube.240Z - OD 2.005" ID 1.690"280Z - OD 2.155" ID 1.728"There are variances in these dimension due to seamed tubing manufacturing tolerances. The variance is typically .005 to .010".

 

So if they are 2in ID then they should fit snugly.

[redneck1545]

No worries, you didnt hear back from me yet because I'm just now getting to the point of using these thigns so I figured I'd ask around before hand. But no big deal if they are worn or dont fit as I have found a website that sells threaded sleeves with collars for about 30 bones a wheel. Still much better than buying a whole new Ground Control coil over kit or anything.

 

 

and blu destiny yea I have an early 260z, (240z size) strut tubes so they would be the smaller diameter strut housing. but I aparently have threaded sleeves that would fit a 280z strut tube so thats where the play is coming in from the threaded sleeve to strut tube.

 

What im worried about is the threaded sleeve to adjustable collar play....its fairly loose.

 

That and that camber plate tops, im still thinking im missing a bushing or something as the shaft fits perfect for the rear struts and fairly loose for the front struts.

 

 

 

[redneck1545]

Today I cut up the other strut tube and welded collars on both of them. Cleaned with flap disc and wire brush to prep for paint. I also put about 3 coats of rustoleom premium or professional grade gloss black on them and all was going well until i rushed the third coat and got some runs. Ill be sanding the runs out and putting another two coats or so on them tomorrow but my my my they are looking mighty nice so far.

I doubt pictures will do them justice but ill try to snap some good ones tomorrow and put em up here.

 

Update on the TTT mono ball play as well. The shorter strut for the front is a tokico TOHZ3099, this strut is out on an MR2 and needs a 15mm bushing to take out the play from the strut top and mono ball supplied by TTT. Gabe said he'd send me one ASAP to take care of the issue. He also said I would have to use the existing nut that was supplied with the strut and not the nut that was supplied by TTT with the camber plates.

 

Hope that helps people in the future.

Edited December 30, 2011 by redneck1545

[redneck1545]

I sprayed the strut housings a few days ago and ended up with runs. It ruined the look so i tried sanding them out, and miserably failed. So out came the whire wheel again and back to bare metal they went. And then more runs. I hate spray paint by the way. I should say im too impatient for spray paint i guess.

 

So after stripping them AGAIN I sprayed three coats on them today. May finish with about two more coats tomorrow but i've got a bigger problem on my hands at the moment.

 

One step forward two steps back.

 

After prepping the exposed seam welds for paint today I sprayed with another coat of Zero-rust...BUUUUUT, this coat went on MUCH thicker compared to the rest of the body.

 

In hindsight I think thinned out the first coats on the undercarriage and interior too much. The coats I put on previously were always a little "dusty" and light black color. The properly thinned coats I put on today are a dark rich smooth coat.

 

It looks MUCH better and has caused me to want to paint the whole undercarriage and engine bay again at a minimum. If I have enough left over I'll be re-doing the interior as well.

 

So plans for tomorrow include some 3M scouring pads to scuff up the previous coats, friends, and lots of beer. Hopefully the day will conclude with a fresh properly thinned coat getting sprayed on the whole underside and interior and the car will then be ready for the seam sealer.

Edited January 2, 2012 by redneck1545

[luseboy]

Interesting read. I'm wondering why you said to not use a chop saw. I finished my coilovers (with the GC kit from TTT) today acctually, and used a nice chop saw to section the tubes. No it wasn't a perfectly square cut, but both sides were cut at the same angle, so a rotation of the top piece found the two pieces to be perfectly parallel. It also took all of 10 minutes to make the cuts for the front tubes. I also measured differently, I measured the overall length of the stock strut insert, and the overall length of the bz3099 (illumina rear mr2), and cut out the difference. I double checked by measuring how much thread should be showing on top of the stock insert for the gland nut. I found the difference between them to be just under 4 cm, and the amount of threads to be about 1cm, or just under. It all worked out great. I plan to use the same procedure for the rear strut tubes. Anyways just found it interesting that you said not to do those things. Worked fine for me .

[redneck1545]

Interesting read. I'm wondering why you said to not use a chop saw....No it wasn't a perfectly square cut.

 

 

Kinda answered your own question here dont ya think?

 

cheap chop saw = 100 bucks, nice chop saw= much much more.

 

Tubing cutter = 20-30 bucks and a more precise and PERPENDICULAR cut.

Edited January 4, 2012 by redneck1545

[cockerstar]

Try cutting the tubes a few inches down from the gland nut threads. It makes it a lot easier to grind down the inside of the weld if you need to to fit the strut in. I don't think it's a problem with the blues, but it can be if you're using other types of struts that fit more snugly.

 

Also, try clamping the two halves of the housing in a piece of angle iron with an old insert placed through them to keep everything nice and in-line while tack welding it all up. Do not weld more than tack welds with an insert in the housing.

 

After sectioning a few sets for customers I really prefer using a tubing cutter to make my cuts. It's just more precise than a chop saw. The cut doesn't need to be perpendicular as long as both cut edges are parallel, but it takes out one less step if you don't have to worry about keeping the two halves aligned rotationally.

[luseboy]

Kinda answered your own question here dont ya think?

 

cheap chop saw = 100 bucks, nice chop saw= much much more.

 

Tubing cutter = 20-30 bucks and a more precise and PERPENDICULAR cut.

 

Well I used a really nice milwaukee chop saw that a guy I work with let me use. It was really clean, and chopped through like butter. If you kept reading my post, you would see me say that since both were cut at the same angle, you can rotate them and get them perfectly straight. I will do the same thing on the rear struts, it was a nice clean cut, and everything worked out perfectly. I installed my struts today and wow, perfect fit with the gland nut included with the struts. A tubing cutter seems like a pain, these tubes are pretty darn thick. You can talk trash about my methods, but I think my finished product speaks for itself.

[redneck1545]

Also, try clamping the two halves of the housing in a piece of angle iron with an old insert placed through them to keep everything nice and in-line while tack welding it all up. Do not weld more than tack welds with an insert in the housing.

 

After sectioning a few sets for customers I really prefer using a tubing cutter to make my cuts. It's just more precise than a chop saw. The cut doesn't need to be perpendicular as long as both cut edges are parallel, but it takes out one less step if you don't have to worry about keeping the two halves aligned rotationally.

I have some pics I need to upload on here but I did just that. I used a piece of 2x2 angle iron and four clamps to hold everything in place.

 

You can talk trash about my methods

Not talking trash my friend. I just prefer to use a method that has a proven track record with less leg work in the long run.

[luseboy]

I have some pics I need to upload on here but I did just that. I used a piece of 2x2 angle iron and four clamps to hold everything in place.

 

 

Not talking trash my friend. I just prefer to use a method that has a proven track record with less leg work in the long run.

 

Well the way I see it I used less leg work... But either way, I like my method better, it's a much cleaner cut. You can use your pipe cutters all you want, I'll stick with a chop saw. Granted if I had to buy the tool, a pipe cutter would probably be what I'd choose due to the cost, but if I can borrow a chop saw, I will use it.

[redneck1545]

Now were getting somewhere.

 

I wanted a more precise cuts with simple measurements...One thing you probably never took into account was the thickness of the blade on the chop saw you were using.

I wanted to know EXACTLY how much I would have to section and measure everything with a dial caliper and came up with the exact measurements to within about 0.010" and both struts are exactly the same.

 

Johnc posted on his site and his recommendations as to how to go about sectioning struts. He owns a race car fabrication shop and I value his take considering his history and knowledge base about this very subject. I'm pretty sure he has a really nice chop saw somewhere in his shop and CHOOSES to use a pipe cutter or a lathe for the PRECISION! I agree and so have many others on here. I made this thread to serve as a pictorial guide to a different way or, "A WAY", to measure to see how much you should section before people start cutting up good tubes and say well hell im gonna cut 2" from each tube.

 

I didn't want people pulling numbers from the sky and cutting up good parts just because of misdirection or lack of understanding. But it seems we have moved more towards the picture referenced above.

 

Your method, my method...who cares...ure happy as am I.

Now if your finished I'm sure there are someone's elses cornflakes you can tend to.

Edited January 4, 2012 by redneck1545

[redneck1545]

Finished the sectioning and painting so here are the pics.

 

After remoiving the desired amount from the strut I beveled both sides at about a 45 degree angle to make sure the weld had enough area to "fill".

 

I took a piece of 2x2 angle iron 1/8" thick and placed both halves of the strut housing inside it. Using four c-clamps I made sure they were aligned and dropped the insert inside the strut housing just to make sure.

 

I left the insert in the housing while adding about 6 tack welds.

 

After I welded all the way around the housing ensuring that no weld protruded inside the housing I took an 80grit flap disc on an angle grinder to smooth everything out.

 

I followed that up with a crimped wire wheel to try and further smooth out the imperfections in the castings.

 

heres the difference in an 80grit finish vs wire wheel.

 

 

After cleaning the entire housing I located the spring perch by taking my thread collar and placing it on the housing. Using the measurements found on Johns website I tacked the back side down so as to allow me to center and square up the rest. The important thing here is to make sure the threaded collar sits flush ALL the way around the perch. If its cocked off to one side you will see a gap between the threaded collar and the perch when weight is put on the car...not a good thing.

 

Heres the perch welded.

prepped for paint

 

and painted!

Pictures really dont do it justice, this stuff after about three coats resembles a smooth high gloss powder coating more than rattle can paint.

 

Here's the paint I used in case anyone is wondering.

 

Anyways, thats all for now on the coil-over install. More to come in my other threads!

[JMortensen]

For the next guy: hose clamps are a lot easier than C-clamps when trying to align the strut tube in the angle iron.

 

I used a chop saw for mine as well. I put a piece of 2" tape around the top of the strut and cut to it, and put another one 1.5" or whatever it was down from there and cut to it. No problems with the thickness of the blade if you do it that way. If you just draw a line and try to hit it, yeah, there's a decent amount of slop there and you might make a mistake.

 

The tubing cutter makes a better cut, but as I recall there is a lot more elbow grease involved. Been probably 20 years since I've used a big tube cutter though...

[luseboy]

Well to my defense, I did take the blade into account. But it does not matter.

 

Your strut tubes look great! Looks like you spent a little more time than I did as far as flap sanding them down, I simply just wire brushed mine a bit, washed them really well, then primed and painted them. But I'm sure yours will continue to look good longer than mine haha.

 

I was just admiring your rotisserie ( I know this is off topic... ), is it basically two engine stands, one on the front of the car and one on the back? Looks like it, except with modified "arms."

[redneck1545]

Thanks! I get bored far too often in this crappy town im stuck in for the time being, so time is not something I mind spending lol.

 

As far as the rotisserie yea its just two engine stands. I bought two harbor freight engine stands when they were on sale and then chopped them up and added about a 1' section of whatever size metal the upright was made out of. I made the "arms" out of 1.5"x1.5" square, welded them to the "engine" backing plate that came with the stand, and cut holes appropriately where needed and mounted them to the front and then to the the rear bumper mounts.

 

i actually used this idea form a neighbor and then looked at some pics on here to make it work for the z car. I'm not the first person to use engine stands for a rotisserie on here...in fact there is a whole thread dedicated to the topic i believe. Go look for it.

 

Much cheaper than buying a "real" one. I think I have about 200 bucks in the whole setup and my car has been flipped about a 100 times, been through about a dozen trailer hauls and is still holding strong.

 

I cant take some additional pics if you want them.

Edited January 9, 2012 by redneck1545

[luseboy]

Thanks! I get bored far too often in this crappy town im stuck in for the time being, so time is not something I mind spending lol.

 

As far as the rotisserie yea its just two engine stands. I bought two harbor freight engine stands when they were on sale and then chopped them up and added about a 1' section of whatever size metal the upright was made out of. I made the "arms" out of 1.5"x1.5" square, welded them to the "engine" backing plate that came with the stand, and cut holes appropriately where needed and mounted them to the front and then to the the rear bumper mounts.

 

i actually used this idea form a neighbor and then looked at some pics on here to make it work for the z car. I'm not the first person to use engine stands for a rotisserie on here...in fact there is a whole thread dedicated to the topic i believe. Go look for it.

 

Much cheaper than buying a "real" one. I think I have about 200 bucks in the whole setup and my car has been flipped about a 100 times, been through about a dozen trailer hauls and is still holding strong.

 

I cant take some additional pics if you want them.

 

Haha ya I feel the same way, but I'm still in highschool so homework, work, friends, the girlfriend, etc. all get in the way sometimes haha.

 

Sounds like an easy way to do it... I may have to do that myself. Seems simple enough. More pics would be cool, you can PM them if you don't want to get the thread off topic or something. Where did you mount the front one to the front of the car? Well, now it looks like I'll have to do this as well...

[RebekahsZ]

Looks great-nice work.