Jesse OBrien Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I spent a long time trying to figure out which Toyota brakes work on the s30 a few years ago, and even after I had them installed, I wasn't quite sure what to believe. There's a lot of conflicting information out there, and too few people confirming which s12 calipers are which, and which ones work best. Finally, I asked Gollum (Nathan to you guys) to try to assemble the facts and put them into one concise article, and we polished it up a bit and published it. The final s30 with Toyota calipers post is hosted here, for those of you who care to look (please confirm/refute anything you're sure of), and we could use some better photos as well if you have some high-resolution shots you don't mind sharing. It wouldn't be too much work for me to put this together into an easy-to-download PDF, if you guys think it'd be worth having and passing around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Nice job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse OBrien Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 I'm pretty happy with how it came out, and after looking through the s30 forums a bit (it's been awhile since I came on here) I saw the s12 caliper question pop up a few times, just in the past few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Nice write up on the Toyota caliper swap. Metric non-compatibility of the Wilwood 1 inch master cylinder outlet ports is easy to resolve. Just remove the Wilwood outlet ports and replace them with outlet ports from the Datsun 240Z/260Z/280Z/280Zx master cylinder. Now the 10mm Datsun brake line flair nuts will screw into the Wilwood MC. There is a complete write-up on the Wilwood 1 inch MC upgrade in the Brake section that explains the complete swap procedure. It is the first sticky in the Brake section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse OBrien Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 Miles, that's great to know, I didn't know you could just swap the outlet ports. I'll update the writeup tomorrow. Any other tips/suggestions/expertise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Z Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 In your writeup, the only place you mention S12 calipers is in the summary. What is the difference between and S12 and an S12+8? I'm a complete newbie on this but I am trying to restore a 73 240 to daily driver / light autocross use and this looks like something I should definitely improve. I just want to figure out what the minimum is that I need to do, and be able to stop from 100+ without killing the brakes and also autocross without fade. I don't plan to really drive hard on a track. Thanks for your writeup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 In your writeup, the only place you mention S12 calipers is in the summary. What is the difference between and S12 and an S12+8? I'm a complete newbie on this but I am trying to restore a 73 240 to daily driver / light autocross use and this looks like something I should definitely improve. I just want to figure out what the minimum is that I need to do, and be able to stop from 100+ without killing the brakes and also autocross without fade. I don't plan to really drive hard on a track. Thanks for your writeup! Stock brakes with the proper friction compound will help you achieve that, no need for big, heavy calipers. Brake pad choice is extremely important. Fresh brake fluid is also key. As far as I'm concerned, the only time these calipers could benefit you is on long track sessions. Otherwise, they're just sitting there, increasing unsprung weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer Z Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Stock brakes with the proper friction compound will help you achieve that, no need for big, heavy calipers. Brake pad choice is extremely important. Fresh brake fluid is also key. As far as I'm concerned, the only time these calipers could benefit you is on long track sessions. Otherwise, they're just sitting there, increasing unsprung weight. Use a good DOT 4 brake fluid with a high boiling point (wet boiling point). We use ATE Super Blue. With DOT 3 we would boil the fluid and with the ATE and all other conditions being the same, we no longer loose our brakes due to boiling fluid. And yes, move into a better compound designed for your use. Hawk, Porterfield and a few others make racing compound pads to fit the stock calipers. Porterfield sells race compound shoes for the stock rear (not cheap). The thing nobody ever addresses here is the added weight. The stock 240z caliper is 9 pounds. The Toyota caliper is about 50. I did not put it on a scale, but I had to two-hand the thing. Adding more un-sprung weight is not what you want to do to a racecar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Use a good DOT 4 brake fluid with a high boiling point (wet boiling point). We use ATE Super Blue. With DOT 3 we would boil the fluid and with the ATE and all other conditions being the same, we no longer loose our brakes due to boiling fluid. And yes, move into a better compound designed for your use. Hawk, Porterfield and a few others make racing compound pads to fit the stock calipers. Porterfield sells race compound shoes for the stock rear (not cheap). The thing nobody ever addresses here is the added weight. The stock 240z caliper is 9 pounds. The Toyota caliper is about 50. I did not put it on a scale, but I had to two-hand the thing. Adding more un-sprung weight is not what you want to do to a racecar. Bingo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Juday Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) ... The thing nobody ever addresses here is the added weight. The stock 240z caliper is 9 pounds. The Toyota caliper is about 50. I did not put it on a scale, but I had to two-hand the thing. Adding more un-sprung weight is not what you want to do to a racecar. I have both calipers here on hand. And I have very accurate refigerant scales. The stock 240 caliper does, indeed, weight 9 lbs. almost exactly. The S12 Toyota weights 11 lbs. 4 oz. this is unloaded for both. I'm sure the Toyota pads weight an ounce or two more than the smaller Datsun pads. So figure about 2.4 lbs. per wheel heavier with the S12 swap. Edited April 27, 2012 by Dan Juday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer Z Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I have both calipers here on hand. And I have very accurate refigerant scales. The stock 240 caliper does, indeed, weight 9 lbs. almost exactly. The S12 Toyota weights 11 lbs. 4 oz. this is unloaded for both. I'm sure the Toyota pads weight an ounce or two more than the smaller Datsun pads. So figure about 2.4 lbs. per wheel heavier with the S12 swap. 2 extra pounds is not a big deal, especially for a street car. I was at the parts store and asked to see the Toyota caliper. I told him the year and model that I had seen in several threads here at Hybrid Z. I don't recall now exactly what that was, but he brought me a cast iron caliper that looked and felt like what I have on my F250 truck. I had to "umph" with both hands to pick it up. It was not 11 pounds. Perhaps he brought out the wrong part. I did do a tracing of the mounting flange that later matched up to a stock Z caliper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I have both calipers here on hand. And I have very accurate refigerant scales. The stock 240 caliper does, indeed, weight 9 lbs. almost exactly. The S12 Toyota weights 11 lbs. 4 oz. this is unloaded for both. I'm sure the Toyota pads weight an ounce or two more than the smaller Datsun pads. So figure about 2.4 lbs. per wheel heavier with the S12 swap. Good info, Dan. I was always curious as to the actual weight differences between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibby Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Metric non-compatibility of the Wilwood 1 inch master cylinder outlet ports is easy to resolve. Just remove the Wilwood outlet ports and replace them with outlet ports from the Datsun 240Z/260Z/280Z/280Zx master cylinder. Now the 10mm Datsun brake line flair nuts will screw into the Wilwood MC. There is a complete write-up on the Wilwood 1 inch MC upgrade in the Brake section that explains the complete swap procedure. It is the first sticky in the Brake section. You can also buy conversion lines and splices from the autoparts store. My Master had been replaced with aftermarket leaving me without the proper flares. The lines cost about $4.00 and just had to be twisted into shape. You can also reflare the lines but I wanted to leave the option to go back if i didn't like the cylinder. If you go this route pull your own part numbers and go get the parts yourself from behind the counter. My local Advance sold me the wrong splices twice before I went back and pulled them off the rack myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse OBrien Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share Posted April 26, 2012 So much more great info is coming out in this thread! Does anyone have an issue with me adding it all into that post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer Z Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 So much more great info is coming out in this thread! Does anyone have an issue with me adding it all into that post? Once it's been posted, it's public info. I will add that no matter what caliper a person uses, brake compound and fluid are important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibby Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I went and looked up the P/N for the conversion lines.The lines are3/8-24 inverted to M10x1.0 inverted. Poly-Armour PAA-0310 @ Advance Auto . The unions are M10x1.0 inverted to M10x1.0 inverted. I used these from AGS. They were a bit better quality then the Dorman unions and just as cheap. You need 2 lines and 2 unions. Just twist them up(use a tubing bender) like so: Attach your new adapters to the M/C hook up your unions and install normally. Everything will fit behind the stock heat shield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zex Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 How has good after market pad compounds for the toyota 4x4 calipers?? I would like to get some for more wet conditions, mine take to long to "warm up", kinda scary on the street. No I don't race my car so I don't need some super racing compounds.. I stoped by a local parts store and asked if EBC had anything, they looked it up and said no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jax 260z Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 check with summit racing equipment. if you have the 89 to 95 vented rotor calipers, they list 3 different compounds from hawk performance brakes. pn# hb315f669, hb315z669,and hb315y669. most cost around $69.00 a set, and they have most of them. sorry, but they don't list anything for the non vented calipers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Pads: Porterfield R4S are available for the Toyota calipers. Do not order the R4 pads as they are for racing and require warm up to be effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy455 Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 (edited) How has good after market pad compounds for the toyota 4x4 calipers?? I would like to get some for more wet conditions, mine take to long to "warm up", kinda scary on the street. No I don't race my car so I don't need some super racing compounds.. I stoped by a local parts store and asked if EBC had anything, they looked it up and said no. I'm running Project Mu HC+ with my new 240Z brake set-up -- Toyota calipers in front, Silvermine kit in back. Operating range for the pads is 0-1,400+ degrees F. During last Saturday's 90 degree day (130+ track temp) at Willow Springs raceway in 30 minute run sessions I had zero brake fade and zero noise. They're over double the cost of the Porterfields but I think 10 times better when it comes to stopping distance, consistency and wear. I ran the Porterfields last year with my stock front brakes and found them inconsistent, especially running the Auto Club Speedway roval and braking from 100+ to 30 at Turn 3. After the event, both sets were cracked. Then I changed to the Project Mu's and couldn't believe the difference. And now with vented rotors up front, I barely got them hot at Willow. Best of all, since the Project Mu's don't squeal like the Porterfields, I can drive them on the street without causing the neighborhood dogs to howl. Check 'em out. You won't ever want to run anything else again. And you'll forget all about that extra six pounds the first time you step on your bigger brakes IF you get the proper rear brake bias. Without that balance, it doesn't matter what pad you run up front. Edited April 27, 2012 by Sandy455 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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