Not a Z but want opinions

[HowlerMonkey]

When the diff. goes, put a r200 into it......if your car has IRS.

[Tony D]

Why on earth would you do that? If he's not drag racing it, there's really no advantage to an R200.

 

I'd say before putting a heavy R200, and a Subaru R180 ATB or LSD would be a FAR better choice!

[HowlerMonkey]

Why on earth would he want a sunny GTi-R scoop on a 1981 810? (you suggested it above, tony)

 

It is surely not "period perfect" to put a 1990 scoop on a 1981 car yet you have a problem with my suggesting a R200 that bolts right in?

 

Tony will go to great lengths to throw his weight around and disagree with people while doing the exact same thing he tries to chide others about.

 

Maybe tony could work up the pricing for his r180 suggestion that will net you the same gearing variety and strength as the R200.

 

Since he plans to autocross it, how about doing an estimate (including labor if diffs need to be opened) for 3.9 or 4.1 gears and I will work up pricing for the complete R200 with 3.9 or 4.1 gears.

 

Let's compare if you want.

Edited May 26, 2012 by HowlerMonkey

[Tony D]

I didn't see where you said it bolts in, I merely questioned why on earth would he want to do it? It's all downsides compared to an R180 which is a BOLT-IN swap (kinda like the turbo engine was.... OP seems to like that kind of project, eh?)

 

Because the Sunny GTi-R scoop is period correct (If you're going to 'quote' me, do it correctly!) and designed for the intercooler position he currently is running--allaying the HEAT SOAK issue Sleeper Z alluded to in his post? Perhaps stating the obvious is too, uh....obvious. Car's 10 years old, bits from modern wrecks (though my GTi-R was an 87 so I don't know where you get 90 from...) Yep, period correct. Like the 67 Camaro Hood Vents on my 63 Corvair Spyder. I don't account for PO tastes, I just mention the trends I see (like Kenmary Skyline Lights in ZX's and Z's....) You know? Mix-and-Match? Guys put 83ZXT Lights into 240's, and 260/280 lights into them as well. Hell, I've even seen 89 COROLLA lights in a 240... You saying you can never backdate body parts, or (shivver) take something from one manufacturer, and put it into or onto a vehicle from another, different manufacturer? I fail to see any cogent point in your comment in this regard.

 

Most guys running autox I know don't want the heavier weight of the R200 out back, Subies come all day long with 3.7 & 3.9's in LSD and ATB, and if you think running a turbo with a 4.1 at an autox is a good idea, try it first. (My suggestion, after running 350rw Tq: use at least 265's in the back and get good at throttle modulation with anything lower than a 3.36!)

 

I'm not throwing my weight around to disagree. I just thought putting a differential into the car which never had one, nor had mounts for one, which weighed more, and offered no LSD or ATB availability out of the box in massive numbers to be just.... welll.... a stupid suggestion. Just my opinion. The cars came with H and R180's, and swapping a Subie differential is quick and easy. Subie R180's, or just about any R180 with ATB or LSD are plenty strong, the weak point is the SPIDER GEARS, not the R&P! (FYI: If you didn't know, The Four Pinion LSD's and ATB's really dont have spider gear breakage problems.... if they have spider gears at all!)

 

If you've done it once or twice, you might know that. I've done it more than once or twice. I know this. I'm trying to share my knowledge of what did and didn't work for me, and not trying to throw some guy something I read somewhere to meet some sort of benchracing formula.

 

What the hell got in your arse this morning. Man, talk about PO&B at the world! Take your medication, you're no fun like this whining and bitter over a simple opinion difference... You run the R200 in your Auto-X Car, I'm sure your car 'needs' the strength. Mine at 350+ ft-lbs of torque didn't seem to 'need' the R200. I guess some of that goes hand-in-hand with knowing how to drive the car properly...

Edited May 27, 2012 by Tony D

[HowlerMonkey]

$40.00 Junkyard R200 (biggest price variable depending on whether 4 pinion or lsd)

 

$10.00 Junkyard pinion flange from S12 200sx turbo

 

$10.00 Junkyard transmission mount from S12 200sx turbo....haven't seen one worn out yet.

 

$60.00 2X Cv type axle shafts from 280zx from upull yard.

 

$20.00 you might need 280zx axle flanges if your 810 or 910 was equipped with the early non-cv type axles.

 

It bolts right in and is all nissan parts.

 

How much will it cost for you fit a 3.9 or 4.1 equipped R180?

 

[Tony D]

Can you show me that 4-Pinion (is that LSD like the Subie?) R200 sir? S12 R200 that longnose or short? Short would require a new driveshaft, wouldn't it? If long, I guess not. But the junkyard where you obtained it for $40 would be good to know about.

 

If we're going to falsify fantasy numbers I'll stick with yours then:

 

Subie R180 from STi in either LSD or ATB 3.7 or 3.9: $40

Axle Rebuild to swap with Subie Tripods to the Datsun Carriers(That's what they are, Tripods, not "CV"---you're a little low on price if you are doing a true CV conversion): $50rp (Brian S knows where that was done...)

All the other stuff the same, save for the pinion flange you can stick yours on from your existing R180...if you need it.

Oh, and you can subtract from the special mounts, because its a Long-Nosed R-180 drops right in where the old one was.

 

So if anything, somewhat less than the "4 Pinion R200" found at a junkyard that sells R200's for $40.

 

That effectively ends this discussion with the point I made in the beginning: The R180 is a bolt-in swap, you don't NEED conversion parts, and have just as much durability without the added weight.

 

Edited May 27, 2012 by Tony D

[HowlerMonkey]

LOL.....tony starts the smokescreen to cloud up things a bit.

 

Do us and yourself a favor by reviewing your past postings featuring being harsh for no apparent reason and a condescending attitude.

 

This conversion, which I have done on the 810/910/maxima and tony has not, cost exactly what I stated and required no going into the differential or converting the diff. to fit axle shafts...........which is where the major expense or labor is incurred with tony's suggestion.

 

You need to stop arguing for argument's sake.

 

BTW.....I picked up a 4 pinion longnose R200 (3.9) at the yard yesterday for $35.00 and checked prices on the rest.

 

Here is the list of all needed with pricing checked today.

 

$35.00 3.9 4-pinion R200 longnose from infiniti M30 (there are two in the yard....I got both of them)

$10.00 Pinion flange for r200 from r200 equipped s12.

$17.50 X2 halfshafts from 280zx

$10.00 X2 stub axle flanges from R180 equipped 200sx (there are 3 in the yard)

I didn't need these on my 910/maxima but some early cars might.

$5.00 R200 diff mount for R200 equipped S12 200sx.

 

This is a bolt in affair without the need to open the differential and incur the labor required for tony's conversion.

 

Tony surely won't be finding a locking subie diff. for 40 bucks as I won't be finding a R200 longnose with mechanical lsd from a late z31 turbo for 40 bucks.............well.....actually I have....... but the pricing of a locking diff. in R180 or R200 flavors will be about the same.

 

This disagreement started because Tony thinks swapping in a R200 that bolts in is ridiculous while suggesting a sunny/pulsar GTi-r scoop is period perfect on a datsun 810.

 

The GTI-r came out in 1990 and has this scoop which would look ridiculous on the original poster's car for the simple reason of the hood slope being drastically different between a GTI-r and the 810.

 

Edited May 28, 2012 by HowlerMonkey

[Tony D]

My contention was there is not an advantage of an R200 over the R180 in Auto-X, and it adds weight.

 

And yes, the tripod section from the Subie R180 is 100% compatible with the ZXT Tripod, you simply take it to the driveline shop and have them do the swap. In L.A. that is $50 for new boots, grease, & labor per PAIR of axles (as I said, Brian S. knows where this gets done!)

 

So the Subie differential, bolting directly in, with a $50 axle change. If you want one without the ATB or LSD (don't know where 'locking' came into it) you just need look. The R200 goes for around $80 here in the PYP yards as they usually call it 'Truck Third Member' whereas the R180 for some inexplicable reason goes for $20 Less and is tagged as 'Third Member' (note, not referred to as 'truck'...) http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/107093-r200-390-open-differential/

 

No smokescreen. We got a LOT of subaru's out in SoCal. Probably up in the Atlantic Northeast as well. Abundance drops the price. It's not "arguing for arguments' sake"--I STILL don't know why you insist the differential needs to be opened up. You do nothing of the sort!

 

I just think the R200 is a LOT more work than the R180. The only thing you need is a tripod grafting that costs $50---you want the companion flanges, they're the same as you are doing on the R200. But no special mounts, none of that other stuff. Just seems like a lot more work. HENCE MY ORIGINAL QUESTION: "Why on earth would he want to do that (for an Auto-X Car)?

 

Drags, maybe. Auto X? What's the point. It's just adding weight.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Tony D

[HowlerMonkey]

Price your entire swap.

 

purchase of 2x 280zx tripod axles

 

purchase of 2x subie tripod axles

 

purchase of R180 subaru differential.

 

LOL at your stating that $50 will get you.....

 

the subie axles disassembled

the zx axles disassembled

the subie inners installed on the 280zx axles, and the boots replaced.

 

Don't omit any parts required because I will surely point out the omissions.

 

My suggestion bolts straight in and can be done in an hour without trips to any shop and some of the parts are not necessary but were included in my estimate of what might be needed to cover all years of putting the R200 into the 810/910 equipped with IRS.

 

Include the 280zx axle flanges in your swap because they will be needed.

 

I've done the swap.....it's pictured earlier in the thread.

 

You have not done the swap and are going on about mounting issues that don't exist with my swap suggestion.

 

If his car is equipped with a H190, then none of this matters except for my learning further that tony will talk about something he hasn't yet done as if he's done it.

Edited May 29, 2012 by HowlerMonkey

[Tony D]

When you gas-axe the Subie Differential out of the back of the car, the stub Tripods come with the differential for the cost...

 

And taking those to the (same 280ZX Tripods you need for your setup so that's a part wash pricing wise) axle shop for the $50 swap onto the ZXT Axles (they pop out, you know) isn't a big labor charge if you can figure out how to drop the pumpkin in the JY I figure you can pop the tripods out of a Subie Diff same as out of a Nissan Diff (since they are made by the same people, that's not surprising.)

 

Like I said, this swap is VERY popular with the guys in SoCal. There is a shop downtown that does the tripod end swap for $50 a pair with new boots and grease. You just bring them the Subie Stubs, the ZXT Axles, and say "I want these stubs on this axle" and in 45 minutes (if they are slow) you got them, along with the ZXT stubs that went in that heavy noisy R200 you left in the junkyard where it belongs when you're watching your weight!

 

I'm not going on about anything. You simply can't grasp my simplest of statements: An R180 fits right in where an R180 came out. No mounts to change. You have a shop change your axles (you CAN keep flanged axles, but I haven't done that swap. I HAVE done the Tripod Swap countless times...) and you change the grease seals and companion flanges on the stub axles.

 

It is less work, and weighs less than your proposal. No matter how much you talk around it and belittle me, nothing will change that fact. My original comment was 'why would they want to do that' and clarified it being a weight and unnecessary swapping of components. The ONLY advantage you have in your little tirade is the possibility of keeping flanged axles. I don't run flanged axles on anything anyway so that never entered my consideration.

 

Take the R180 out, put and R180 back in with LSD or ATB and smoother running (less vibration) axles. Man I'm an ******* for suggesting such a travesty. Get a life, dude.

[HowlerMonkey]

My setup bolts straight in without incurring the cost of two sets of axles.

 

Junkyards will charge you for destroying a set of axles to get the inner tripods.

 

They will charge you the amount of the axle itself.

 

If they find you out in the junkyard destroying parts to build a subie/nissan hybrid axle, they will charge you for everything or simply eject you from the yard.

 

You will need both axles from the subie and both axles from the 280zx.

 

My setup costs less, is stronger, bolts in, and doesn't require anything other than swapping out the parts I detailed above.

 

Please give us the number for the guy who will do the axles for the pricing you quoted because I will surely want to get in on this bargain that is too good to be true.

Edited May 30, 2012 by HowlerMonkey

[B. Whisky]

I lurk this site to learn from you people! I dont take unwarranted breaks from work to watch a friggin soap opera, so if you guys could cut the crap, I'm sure the OP would benefit, as would I. HowlerMonkey, If the OP decides on Tony's route, does that REALLY affect you in any way? Or Tony, vice versa? No.

 

As far as the pick-a-parts are concerned, Its not hard to get away with the stuff that Tony suggests. Factor in the weight advantage, and even if it costs $150 for the tripod graft its still an attractive option.

 

As for the r200, unless it's an lsd its just an increase in weight thats just waiting to burn a few spider gears on a turbo l-series. That being said, if OP decides on a putting down hella torque, yea, r200 (lsd or welded only) it is.

 

I tend to side with tony on this, but that isnt meant to detract from howlermonkey in anyway. I've done alot of reading, and both of you seem to bring alot to the table.

 

Anyway, good luck to the OP, it goes without saying that's a nice ride you got there. Gotta get off the phone and back to work

[Mack]

Could you not just swap in an entire S130 rear cross member, complete with axles, diff, hubs, arms, all that crap? I am sure you could find someone parting out a 280ZX and just snag the whole damn thing for CHEAP.

 

I would go R200 IF the guy is planning on running more power in the future, especially with the maxima weighing more than the 280ZX. How much weight difference are we talking between an R180 and an R200? 15, maybe 20lbs? Also, if he wants LSD that doesn't suck *cough* viscous *cough* (the R180 clutch types are hard to come by around here, as well as the R200 clutch types), the R200 offers the OBX quaife knock off torsen LSD upgrade for relatively cheap. oh, and all S12s are long nose R200 and R180s. The turbo variant is where all of the 4.11 long nose R200s come from! Also, an Infiniti M30 will have a long nose R200 with 4 spider gears and a 3.9 ratio, but needs slight grinding/modding to the bottom of the diff to work in a 280ZX.

 

To the original OP: I do really like your car! I have been wanting to do a blacked out, tinted out maxima with a 280ZX turbo or RB25DET swap for some time, but those old maximas are getting REALLY hard to find nowadays! Keep up the good work with whatever route you decide to go!

[Tony D]

"As far as the pick-a-parts are concerned, Its not hard to get away with the stuff that Tony suggests. Factor in the weight advantage, and even if it costs $150 for the tripod graft its still an attractive option."

 

All I ever suggested. Why he got such a freakin' hard on at an alternative opinion is beyond me.

 

And to retort to his last comments showing his ignorance of PYP Yards in SoCal, obviously: "No, they won't" And I don't see how taking Subie tripods off any less 'destroys the axle' as I don't know if there is a big market for the axles for a Subaru...

 

Mack: The STi's have LSDs or even better, ATB's (Think Quaife...) All installed, in corporate packaging, corporately set up for 200,000miles + of motoring.

[HowlerMonkey]

How about I show pricing and availability of my setup that can be confirmed.....and tony does the same with his setup.

 

Remember that tony is the one who said "why on earth would you do that" at the thought of suggesting a R200 setup that bolts straight in yet has no trouble suggesting a solution that requires far more work, labor, and money spent.

 

He needs to temper his initial reactions to other people's opinions with a bit of wisdom BEFORE spewing them on the forum.

 

This is immediately obvious from his posting history and the fact that he will author posts that attack me without provocation.

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/107059-because-im-stuck-in-a-20-conex-box-for-the-weekend/page__st__20__gopid__1002141

Edited May 31, 2012 by HowlerMonkey

[SleeperZ]

Enough already.

[HowlerMonkey]

Mack mentioned swapping the entire 280zx stuff into the 810.

 

I can't find the measurements at this moment but I did compare a 910 irs to the 280zx irs and found some differences.

 

One difference is that the 910 has a 300zx type of offset rather than the 280zx offset.

 

This is evidenced by the Z31 wheels bolting straight on without spacing while the 280zx wheels sit out at the fender lips which makes them rub.

 

 

There may have been a difference in the "height" of the shock mounting location on the arms between the S130 and the maxima.

 

Complicating measurement is the fact that 810/910/maxima FSM state positive camber for the rear irs and the 280zx fsm states negative camber.

Edited May 31, 2012 by HowlerMonkey

[kaito]

The datsun maxima or Toyota Cressida are both my top picks for potential grandma sleeper cars. I don't know why but they are both gangster as ****! I'm very jealous of your car btw.

[BluDestiny]

My friend had a cressida with a lexus v8, 1UZ I believe. That thing flew.

[82-810 L28et]

 Alright guys, I hate to do it, but the 810 is for sale. Asking $4,000 obo. If anyone is interested please PM me or reply to this post. I will also be posting it in the classifieds, as well as on CL.

 

Thanks