New Tuning Toy

[rayaapp2]

Back in the day, long ago, probably before I was born there was this really cool tool. I know its pretty old because it was designed to universally latch onto a big chrome bumper like the ones found on old muscle cars and muscle was dead almost a decade in my opinion before I was born...

It was a large box that strapped to the bumper with a rubber hose probe and an analog AFR gauge.

 

This gave me an idea for a crude tool that would probably not be the most accurate but would get the job done close enough.

 

 

Yes, yes I did, and because I might be slightly autistic or whatever.

 

Im thinking about extending my lead about 10 more feet though. I will have to source some premo wiring for that. Im still working on the probe. Im thinking about a small 1" piece of stainless with a flex pipe on the front. Ill use a wing nut on a bracket to secure it to the exhaust.

 

The only reason it will not be accurate is that it will be grounded through the cigarette lighter which is not optimal. Depending on how my test runs go against a calibrated machine I may add a second ground that secures to a more appropriate spot.

 

Now I can use this on any of my vehicles so long as I do not run leaded fuel in any of them.

 

Flame away, but secretly I know your jealous or have to much money.

 

EDIT: I am Not a Tweeker...

Edited June 1, 2012 by rayaapp2

[randy 77zt]

No flaming here.Just trying to figure out where the exhaust gas goes in & out.I am sure there is some high dollar gadget for this but you are doing the best you can with a limited budget.You will learn from doing something.I could use some kind of portable wide band because I do alot of motorcycle carb work.If you lived close to me we could try it on my z to see if it matches the permanently installed inovate unit on my car.Welding bungs on something you just want to check quickly is not an option.

[Lazeum]

I don't understand why you do not get a portative unit as the LM1 or LM2 from Innovate.

If cost is an issue, LM1 could be get for cheap nowadays.

For your info, LM1 & LM2 units are getting power for cigarette lighter so you should be fine with your setup.

 

Innovate is making a very smart clamp to hold the O2 sensor at the tip of the exhaust. It is not cheap by any mean ($75) but it is clever & doable if you have some welding capabilities. I've purchased it after many months of hesitation, I don't regret it.

 

The best feature you need when you're tuning is recording capabilities since you do not see all variations recorded by the sensor with a gage.

[rayaapp2]

No flaming here.Just trying to figure out where the exhaust gas goes in & out.I am sure there is some high dollar gadget for this but you are doing the best you can with a limited budget.You will learn from doing something.I could use some kind of portable wide band because I do alot of motorcycle carb work.If you lived close to me we could try it on my z to see if it matches the permanently installed inovate unit on my car.Welding bungs on something you just want to check quickly is not an option.

Its a portable Innovate LC-1. The AFR sensor and probe are missing from the picture. Im going to build my own probe from the scrape steel pile I have rather than spend $75 + shipping on the innovate probe.

 

 

I don't understand why you do not get a portative unit as the LM1 or LM2 from Innovate.

If cost is an issue, LM1 could be get for cheap nowadays.

For your info, LM1 & LM2 units are getting power for cigarette lighter so you should be fine with your setup.

 

Innovate is making a very smart clamp to hold the O2 sensor at the tip of the exhaust. It is not cheap by any mean ($75) but it is clever & doable if you have some welding capabilities. I've purchased it after many months of hesitation, I don't regret it.

 

The best feature you need when you're tuning is recording capabilities since you do not see all variations recorded by the sensor with a gage.

 

I have not seen a cheap LM1 or LM2 unit. Ive got the support system for this as I run an innovate LC1 in my 260Z. Mini HP Net book and USB to com cables. The 3.5mm jacks are going to be on the side of the box as well when its finished. I litterally got the LC1 in the mail yesterday and spent 2 hours throwing that together including cutting, riveting, soldering and such.

 

Now that you mention it I do not remember if the LC1 records... I know my car does but I have a datalogger tied into it. Hmmm

 

 

EDIT: Actually I intend to use this on carburated vehicles so there will be no swing in AFR to watch out for. Thinking crude but effective here. If I want to use it on a FI vehicle I may have some issues.

Edited June 1, 2012 by rayaapp2

[Lazeum]

I haven't been on the market for LM1 for awhile... they are indeed more expensive than LC1 (quick search made the LC1 with no gauge at $140 vs. $250 for LM1)

Regarding LC1, there's a output signal to be recorded but I don't know how that works (do you need a another Innovate tool for that such as LMA3? )

 

 

EDIT: Actually I intend to use this on carburated vehicles so there will be no swing in AFR to watch out for.

I have swing with my carburated engine. I run 3xDCOE however and my AFR curve is not flat at all.  

Edited June 1, 2012 by Lazeum

[JSM]

...Yes, yes I did, and because I might be slightly autistic or whatever.

 

Let's just go with this! It's much more fun! I'm just kidding of course.

[Gollum]

Well ray, That looks like something I would do. Great minds think alike? Or maybe we're both only half there anymore!

[Six_Shooter]

I did something similar with one of my LC-1s...

 

 

 

 

I didn't add a gauge to it, since I planned to use LogWorks with it. After changing to Windoze7, my Serial to USB converters decided they no longer wanted to communicate, so I sold the one in the pictures above, I have one still installed in my car, but will be selling at the end of the year, works fine, just pulling the car off the road for various reasons. When it goes back on the road it will likely have the updated unit of what I replaced that LC-1 with:

 

 

 

 

 

SLC_DIY V1 from 14point7.com.

 

The V1 is no longer available, and the only real difference between V1 and V2, is V2 is pre-assembled, just needs the harness pinned and assembled. I actually enjoyed assembling the V1 kit, took about 4 hours.

 

The SLC_DIY has multiple inputs, that can be used with pretty much an sensor available, onboard RPM input, built in display, that can be cycled between AFR, RPM, boost (when the MAP sensor is installed) and one other display, I believe V2 is the same. This also has native USB connetion, no serial to USB converter needed.

 

There is also the SLC_PURE PLUS 2, that has all the same features, but comes with a pre assembled harness, warranty, and onboard datalogging.

 

You'll be amazed at the pricing.

 

I use my SLC_DIY V1 for tuning other people's cars, use it as a portable unit, that stays in my tuning bag. I wish I knew about 14point7.com before I bought my LC-1s.

Edited June 2, 2012 by Six_Shooter

[rayaapp2]

I haven't been on the market for LM1 for awhile... they are indeed more expensive than LC1 (quick search made the LC1 with no gauge at $140 vs. $250 for LM1)

Regarding LC1, there's a output signal to be recorded but I don't know how that works (do you need a another Innovate tool for that such as LMA3? )

 

 

 

I have swing with my carburated engine. I run 3xDCOE however and my AFR curve is not flat at all.  

It was $170 with the gauge to my door. I think I can use one of the innovate programs to capture the AFR and log it in a round about way. Ill keep working on it.

Really you have swing on your DCOE's? That shouldnt happen as swing is created by an ECU that modulates the fuel trim of the fuel injector duty cycle. I cant imagine what that means for your carbs. I would be curious as to the the dynamic that would cause that. On dyno runs I dont remember ever seeing anything like that occur with carbs that were not electronically controlled. Maybe a cam phenomenon?

 

Well ray, That looks like something I would do. Great minds think alike? Or maybe we're both only half there anymore!

Well, admitting your sick is the first step. Step to what I do not know... definitely not a cure and that's for sure.

 

 

I did something similar with one of mt LC-1s...

 

 

 

 

I didn't add a gauge to it, since I planned to use LogWorks with it. After changing to Windoze7, my Serial to USB converters decided they no longer wanted to communicate, so I sold the one in the pictures above, I have one still installed in my car, but will be selling at the end of the year, works fine, just pulling the car off the road for various reasons. When it goes back on the road it will likely have the updated unit of what I replaced that LC-1 with:

 

 

 

 

 

SLC_DIY V1 from 14point7.com.

 

The V1 is no longer available, and the only real difference between V1 and V2, is V2 is pre-assembled, just needs the harness pinned and assembled. I actually enjoyed assembling the V1 kit, took about 4 hours.

 

The SLC_DIY has multiple inputs, that can be used with pretty much an sensor available, onboard RPM input, built in display, that can be cycled between AFR, RPM, boost (when the MAP sensor is installed) and one other display, I believe V2 is the same. This also has native USB connetion, no serial to USB converter needed.

 

There is also the SLC_PURE PLUS 2, that has all the same features, but comes with a pre assembled harness, warranty, and onboard datalogging.

 

You'll be amazed at the pricing.

 

I use my SLC_DIY V1 for tuning other people's cars, use it as a portable unit, that stays in my tuning bag. I wish I knew about 14point7.com before I bought my LC-1s.

 

 

Oh, your super sick! And here I was thinking I was a little twisted for even thinking about the idea and others have already laid the path. I know Ive heard of 14point7 before. I forgot about them. Ill have to look back into them, I think they were the one that didn't require calibration, but Ill find out soon enough. Calibration is a pain, but it makes sense to me as to why it should be done and on a regular basis(which no instruction sheet or place Ive seen on the internet will tell you). Thanks for the input! And nice setup, it sure puts my aluminum box to shame. Oh well mine has 'character'.

[Six_Shooter]

Wasn't knocking your set-up, I had an idea to add a gauge to my LC-1 as well after the failed to communicate USB to Serial converters were discovered, but just made more sense to replace the entire controller.

 

I've been very happy with my SLC_DIY. I haven't even begun using it's capabilities, mostly because I tune GM EFI, which has many other parameters that are displayed through the ALDL connection on my laptop, just true AFR is not one of them (except with certain custom code), so I really just need an AFR display. I may need to tap into some of it's capabilities though with some of the possible cars that people want me to tune for them.

 

Also check out the brand new iDash, if I wasn't planning to go to college starting in the fall, I'd so be all over getting one of those.

Edited June 2, 2012 by Six_Shooter

[rayaapp2]

Wasn't knocking your set-up, I had an idea to add a gauge to my LC-1 as well after the failed to communicate USB to Serial converters were discovered, but just made more sense to replace the entire controller.

 

I've been very happy with my SLC_DIY. I haven't even begun using it's capabilities, mostly because I tune GM EFI, which has many other parameters that are displayed through the ALDL connection on my laptop, just true AFR is not one of them (except with certain custom code), so I really just need an AFR display. I may need to tap into some of it's capabilities though with some of the possible cars that people want me to tune for them.

 

Also check out the brand new iDash, if I wasn't planning to go to college starting in the fall, I'd so be all over getting one of those.

 

 

Oh no, I was being sarcastic.

ALDL? Old school chevy stuff eh? Ive played around with a tech 1 and tech 2. I will be doing some GM modifications to a Datsun in the near future. I always get thrown for a loop going from STFT/LTFT to block learn modifiers. What kind of program are you using to communicate with a ALDL system on a laptop. Im not really gonna jump in on that stuff, but its cool to see whats out there and see if there is a practical usage for my job.

[Six_Shooter]

Even the newest GM diagnositic connector is commonly referred to as an "ALDL" (Assembly Line Diagnostic Link).

 

I use a program called Tuner Pro RT (www.tunerpro.net), it has been developed by a single guy over at least the last 10 years, current version in V5, one of the best interfaces I have seen, especially when using the OBD1 GM EFI, and will work with many other manufacturers, including Ford, BMW, Nissan, etc. It's basically a shell program that you load certain files to that tell the program where to look at in the bin files and how to interpret the incoming diagnostic links, so possibilities are virtually endless, especially when coupled with tuning devices from moates.net.

 

Personally I use an OBD1 GM ECM (1227749) in my 240Z, running $59 (www.code59.org).

 

I use GM EFI for many conversions as well.

[rayaapp2]

...Calibration is a pain, but it makes sense to me as to why it should be done and on a regular basis(which no instruction sheet or place Ive seen on the internet will tell you). ...

 

I stand corrected:

"4.3 Calibration Schedule

Normally aspirated daily driver:

- Calibrate before installation of new sensor

- Calibrate new sensor again after 3 month of use

- Thereafter calibrate once a year or every 20,000 miles, whichever comes first

Turbo car, daily driver (tuned rich):

- Calibrate before installation of new sensor

- Calibrate new sensor again after 3 month of use

- Thereafter calibrate twice a year or every 10,000 miles, whichever comes first

Race car

- Calibrate before first installation of new sensor

- Calibrate once per race weekend

Dyno use

- Calibrate a new sensor

- Calibrate every 2-3 days, depending on usage"

From Innovates 'complete' LC-1 Manual that is NOT included with any LC-1 kit I have every purchased(total of 4 so far).

[rayaapp2]

With the exception of a human installation error(miss-connected the gauge and had to re-solder a few wires, but nothing serious that could have caused damage), this thing works like a champ. With the stock length wires it fits in the center console of the Z and the probe I made clamps to the exhaust.

I did get small amounts of swing in the mixture. My guess is that it is a cam dynamic as I stated above. Very interesting. It settles out though in a about a minute. And really its only swinging at idle as it the engine settles to idle. I tossed it on my 240Z with SU carbs.

 

 

Im sitting at 14.1-14.5 at idle which I interpret to be a little to lean for this car(I have aux metered air port for idle mixture control though). Im seeing 13.1-13.4 at 2500 rpms no load so Im guessing I have fuel drop out under load which I would expect to see with this setup as well. The last Dyno run revealed 16-17:1 AFR's under load which is why I installed the metered air at idle so I could fatten up the mixture.

Yes Im excited.

 

I came up with a piece of stainless from a Toyota 3.0 V6 coolant pipe I had from an engine R&R at work. One spare tire hold down bolt and some bits of other scrap and I have a probe. I had concern that Id get dilution at idle or low speeds so I decided it would be best to have a slight restriction at the tip of the probe. Its approx a 1" ID probe so its fairly large and only about 10" long. I grabbed a bit of 90* rubber coolant hose and shoved it over the end of the pipe 'for now'. Readings before and after revealed it only really helped with deceleration readings.

 

 

 

Im still playing with it. I will fine tune my probe a bit more before I call it good. Over all Im happy with it for a portable universal wideband for less than $200.

[Lazeum]

Looks like fun

When I was talking about swing, I was talking about variations across rpm range at WOT or during accel event..

If that could be of any help, here's how the Innovate clamp works. Your system is most likely ok for high rpm (> 2000rpm) but not for idle (but who cares since we do not setup idle with a WB anyway

 

 

Since inlet port is at higher pressure than outlet, Innovate clamp sucks the exhaust gas towards the sensor making the reading much more effective very effective at exhaust tip.

 

[rayaapp2]

Yeah, after seeing a couple pictures of the innovate clamp I figured out how it worked. Surprisingly though Im getting very little dilution with the stockish Z. At least from what I can tell so far. Since my probe is so large I cannot duplicate the innovate clamp in terms of functionality without becoming a restriction to the whole exhaust and therefore altering AFR. If I want to tune closer to idle though I can restrict the flow through the probe to get a more accurate reading. A friend gave me one of those titanium exhaust valves from a Suzuki GSX1000. Im thinking about modifying it with a set screw to tune my restriction through the probe. For now the rubber coolant hose provides enough restriction with its bend to prevent to much dilution. Problem is loaded tuning has to be open. So it has its limitations, but I can work with it.

I get what you mean by swing now. Thats actually a term in the industry for something else that I was describing for future reference, if you care. Hence the confusion.

[Lazeum]

I get what you mean by swing now. Thats actually a term in the industry for something else that I was describing for future reference, if you care. Hence the confusion.

 

Sure, I care English is not my native language so it is always good to clarify confusion.

[Tony D]

The fine people at Gunson (those that gave us the Colortune) also make a 12V CO/HC Meter....