280zex Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Reciently I have been scouring the innerwebz researching Formula 1 type fuel injection setups. What I mean is ITB's with the injector pointing down the throat of the throttle body, so for our L28's that would be 6 ITB's and 6 suspended injectors. I was curious if anybody on HBZ has taken this aproach to FI yet?? You could (hypotheticly) fab an ITB with the throttle blades super close to the intake port in the head, so close infact that the blade could be somewhat inside the intake port. Then fab some TB horns/velocity stacks inside an air box. The air box cover itself could be fabbed to hold the injector rail, getting the spacing from the injector nozzle to velocity stack within the correct distance to use the maximum spray pattern of the injector to its full potential. I have done some hand sketches at 100% scale and used some tid-bits of old motorcycle carbs to mock-up a rough idea. What suprizes me the most is that from what I can tell from the you tube vids of F1 injection, they dont batch fire the injectors. They apear to just be open or closed, and when open the use of a rising rate FPR (RRFPR) of some type is used. When off throttle the injector is closed = zero fuel. In theory I "guess" that MSnS could be programmed like this?? Say batch fire the injectors until 3krpm, then go full open and use a RRFPR to up the fuel pressure? Right now I'm stil in the "guessing game" stages. I have an old head I can modify, a bunch of old CV type motorcycle carbs-they work just like SU carbs. I can cut off the throttle blade and linkage ends from the carb body, giving me 36mm ITB's with the linkage bits! I would like to weld the ITB's to an aluminum intake flange, getting the throttle blades as close to the intake port in the head as possible. I haven't cut anything yet. I think I might use the carb circuits for an idle circuit, so the injectors are off at idle. Mabe use the carbs for the low end/off idle, then crack the injectors at 2k to wot?? Not batch fire, but rather open/close, and use a RRFPR for the fuel flow. IF I had a mill, I would rather make an aluminum intake manifold flange with throttle blades just inside the gasket surface area. Just enough to get a throttle shaft through the 6 intake ports. This would definately get the throttle blades inside the intake ports, which would take some porting but no big deal there. I dont have a way to make corectly sized velocity stacks at this time either. Another question is would you want the entire velocity stack inside the air box, or just ends mounted flush, keeping the stack itself outside the airbox?? What lenght should the stacks be?? Like I said, I'm still in the "guessing game" part of this idea.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkspeed Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Good luck. I was reading an article about the Toyota F1 engine program. They had a dedicated building and about 25 engineers working on their fuel delivery system. Seems the pumps were very hi-tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Another member posted a link to a video of a mazda rotary with the injectors above the throttle blades squirting down velocity stacks.It was about a month ago in the non tech forum.Usually you only see this set up with the velocity stacks in vertical position only.The gasoline wont stay suspended in the air flow if the stacks are horizontal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Due to rule requirements Formula 1 is behind the curve when it comes to fuel management. This is where top line professional motorsports fuel management is going - except for Formula 1, NASCAR, and NHRA. http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/content/language2/html/4063.htm You may be able to adapt some the parts from the Bosch Formula 3 catalog: http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/content/downloads/FIA_Formel3/F3Catalog_2008.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Extrudabody has a "down the hroat" kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) Yes, It has been done on an L... As John C points out, rules retard development in the name of costs. There was extensive work done on this using sequential firing, but the rules dropped it out of the equation. F1 used it, now they don't. What I find hilarious is that the newest state of the art direct injection fueling system uses a plunger-cam configuration for fuel pressure, basically not much different than a 1934 VW! There is nothing new! Edited October 31, 2012 by Tony D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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