CrayZ Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 Doing work on these spacers, Almost done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Well i got the spacers made! bad news is I ordered the wrong bolts.. I ordered 10/1.0/45mm and thats not correct. Hopefully i can find a set locally when i get off tomorrow. Any idea what the thread pitch is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Try 1.25 pitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texis30O Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I wanted to pull the axles. I have a R200 LSD now. I just secured one. I am going to use the halfshafts that were with it on a 280z until I destroy them....... which with me it is a matter of time..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 Spacers are causing the bearing cups to rub the control arms.. I'm going to have to install them on the hub side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 Well I swapped the spacers out to the hubs and everything was going fine untill boom.. Snap ring came out ball bearings MIA.. I don't know what else to do here.. I'm about to say screw it and throw a 9" under it... I'm open to other options as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) I wanted to pull the axles. I have a R200 LSD now. I just secured one. I am going to use the halfshafts that were with it on a 280z until I destroy them....... which with me it is a matter of time..... Well at least they work for now.. I can't get these axles to work to save my life.. Edited January 13, 2013 by CrayZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) clearly the stops are chewed up Not sure what you call the part that holds the ball bearings and rides inside the cage.. well it has worked it's way down the driveshaft and wedged itself there.. Once the spacers where in place (hub side on both wheels) the axles had about 1/2" movement give or take from left to right. The part that im confused on is this. IF they are still to short why are the stops chewed up? would that not indicate that they where to long? and if that where the case why are they pulling out of the cups again? Im confused.. incase anyone was wondering the spacers difered .200 from one side to the other. The passenger side seems to be ok for now, But i can hear what seems to be grinding on left hand turns (im assuming it is the shaft grinding down the stops) and there is a clicking noise on left hand turns Edited January 14, 2013 by CrayZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) This is the passenger side, that is "intact" for now.. This angle is just makes me concerned, Is this normal? Edited January 14, 2013 by CrayZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I think some people call it the "star wheel" or something like that. But in bearing terms I think that it is the cage and race combined. Maybe the stops are there more to keep the axle from moving far enough to let the balls out of their "cage". Axle with "cage" moves (too far), balls get left behind, come out of cage, get stuck between cage and circlip, circlip pops out on the reverse movement. There is probably a critical relationship between the cage, cup, stops, circlips and cage/star position on the shaft. The balls should never be able to come out of their spot between cup and cage/star, but yours might be. Hard to tell what happens first but you might be able to work the joint with the shaft off the car and figure it out. I would guess that the stops should have been taller. As far as the stops getting worn down, if you take a compass to the drawing in the FSM, draw some lines and take some measurements you'll see that the drive shaft is most extended with the wheels hanging, and most compressed with them up. You might not have needed that spacer at all, and your problem was the stops all along. The spacer may have destroyed your stops. Sorry I didn't suggest this sooner, you could have at least considered it and taken some measurements on the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Your setup is custom. There is no normal. That said, the CV joints can can handle quite a bit of misalignment as long as there is no binding. Have you verified that the axles don't bind thru the entire range of suspension motion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 Your setup is custom. There is no normal. That said, the CV joints can can handle quite a bit of misalignment as long as there is no binding. Have you verified that the axles don't bind thru the entire range of suspension motion? What is te best way to verify this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 I think some people call it the "star wheel" or something like that. But in bearing terms I think that it is the cage and race combined. Maybe the stops are there more to keep the axle from moving far enough to let the balls out of their "cage". Axle with "cage" moves (too far), balls get left behind, come out of cage, get stuck between cage and circlip, circlip pops out on the reverse movement. There is probably a critical relationship between the cage, cup, stops, circlips and cage/star position on the shaft. The balls should never be able to come out of their spot between cup and cage/star, but yours might be. Hard to tell what happens first but you might be able to work the joint with the shaft off the car and figure it out. I would guess that the stops should have been taller. As far as the stops getting worn down, if you take a compass to the drawing in the FSM, draw some lines and take some measurements you'll see that the drive shaft is most extended with the wheels hanging, and most compressed with them up. You might not have needed that spacer at all, and your problem was the stops all along. The spacer may have destroyed your stops. Sorry I didn't suggest this sooner, you could have at least considered it and taken some measurements on the car. Even with the spacer in place and wheels hanging I had between 1/8"-1/4" gap in between the companion flange and cup. From what I've read this is the sweet spot. That would have meant when the car is on the ground I have about 1/2" maybe more of axle movement. Is this not what is needed? I'm not sure I understand your logic of the stops needing to be longer. In my mind it would have only made the grinding worse and axle travel less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texis30O Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I would say get he back of the car on jack stands. use a jack to move the suspension up and down and rotate the wheel at the same time. maybe move the suspension up from full droop at 1" increments to see/feel if there is any binding or knocking in the axle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 ^what he said. Also, removing the strut springs makes the job much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 I'm starting to think the diff might be mounted to low causing an extreme angle and unwanted stress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayZ Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) My diff MM If its a simple as raising the diff a little higher and using the axles I have I would be all ears. The MM setup looks like it put the diff higher Edited January 14, 2013 by CrayZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Think about where the balls are in the cage, relative to the end of your available travel (with your mind: make the CV housings see-thru). You've had it apart, so you know what things look like. Then, relax your springs either by lowering your coilover collar, or by taking the suspension apart and removing the springs and re-assembling without springs. Then, disconnect your CV axles at the outboard end (near the hub). Put a jack under your spindle pins. Put one hand on the outer CV and one hand on the jack handle. Jack the suspension all the way up, wiggling the CV as you go. Honestly, the gap should change very little. If you run out of wiggle room (no gap), the axle is too long. If the gap becomes excessive (you will have to imagine where the balls are), then your axle is too short. If you are unsure if the axle is too short, push the CV boot up the axle so you can actually see where the balls are with your eyes. If all the clearances check out, replace the boot and bolt up the axle, replace your spring and go do some burn-outs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I'm short on terminology also, so my post might not have made much sense. And I don't understand the fine details of the CV joints, that's why this thread is interesting. Rossman and texis offer the best suggestion, especailly after you've had so many problems. Put one or both axles back together with no boots and watch what happens as you lift the suspension up and down and rotate the wheel. You've probably seen this thread (it's in the FAQ's), it mentions joint problems if you put the cages in backward (Post #48) and has pictures of assembling the joint. Circa 2005, yours is not a new problem. http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/25054-r230-axle-assembly-a-pictoral-review/ As far as the length, everything pivots around the inner control arm attachment point. The inner CV joint is above the control arm attachment point, therefore gets longer as the wheel drops and shorter as the wheel rises. You can verify this by moving the suspension up and down as suggested. If your diff really is lower its CV joint axis might be the same as the control arm's so it will be shortest when level. See the attached picture. I could be wrong but that's what the picture tells me. Maybe one axle joint is binding under load and pulling the other side out. Another possibility, hard to verify in the garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) I can't tell anything by looking at the pictures. Lowering the differential will limit the amount the shaft needs to extend at full droop. Do you have to compress the suspension or pry on the shaft to install the shafts? If I understand correctly, your shafts and bearing cages can float on both ends when installed. I believe this means that the shaft splines can ride on the inner side of the CV cup or spacer in your case. To me that seems like a poor design...but, maybe it has worked for other people. Edited January 14, 2013 by rossman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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