Tony D Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Like I have repeatedly stated, sounds like everybody here is getting worked up over what SPEEDHUNTER'S said on their inter webs page. Nowhere have I heard what WANTANABE-San said. In fact, I have sent correspondence to my distributor there... I WILL visit Rocky Auto on my next trip, and am already formulating the questions I will ask. AGAIN I state some people here need to watch "Corvette Summer" again as they obviously relate to Mark Hammil's character. I am still putting this down to western application of ego to rhetoric on the Internet meant to fill white space and nothing more. Next time I see something OTHER than Speedhunter's Typical fanboy palaver online, I'll make note of it... My point being since day one was that they are NOT Walter Cronchite, or Edgar R. Murrow steeped in journalistic integrity, and HAVE been known to (uhm, ahem, urr...) "embellish" when needing to fill space. In western black-white verbiage, some would say "they make crap up and lie" --likely this is how it would be characterised in Texas. Now, if you can see my last two sentences sat the EXACT SAME THING... you get my point. If you DON'T see that, likely you never will, and are likely misunderstanding the way things are done regarding this stuff in Japan. Kurosawa sued because someone stole his IDEA and sold it as their own. Violating copyright laws. Those don't apply to individuals customising cars unless you are well known AND CAN PROVE DAMAGES! So you show me he damages if everything being said was ABSOLUTELY TRUE. WHAT DAMAGE OTHER THAN EGO HAS BEEN PERPETRATED? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 And, Kiwi, you are condemning Rocky Auto "for what they are doing".... Based on inferences from what a THIRD PARTY has said, without seeing a SINGLE quotation from the principal involved at Rocky Auto! Heresay! I would tend to stand more on the builders viewpoint side of things had Speedhunters QUOTED someone from RA in their palaver. But fact is, they didn't! So I don't think I will join the group jumping off the bridge on the "that rapacious thieving no-good son-of--bitch Rocky Auto Bastard" inner tube until I at least see something credible to justify it. At this pont, not being a big joiner of causes...all I see is a guy brokering cars. And one that didn't get what he initially wanted, now somewhat upset that the prospect exists that someone else MIGHT (car isn't sold yet as far as I know... Not uncommon for cars like this to sit for years in Japan...) Now, worst case...what if Wantanabe bought he car to draw in customers and has it in his showroom with "Rocky Auto" stickers all over it? He is the seller... And to a Japanese buyer, (and this may be the root of the ego thing here as nobody likes to realise their own irrelevance...) do they even know or for that matter even CARE who built it...other than Rocky Auto, who is selling it to them now, and who pledges lifetime of service support on the vehicle? Everybody step back a few steps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 " They sue, just like us, if someone steals their creations. " The BIG problem, and I think the ROOT of the issue here is nothing was STOLEN.... He bought it. Which, if you read my points earlier....kinda changes stuff. Those of you referring to copyrights and etc referring to 'creations' seem to miss my point earlier about Henry Ford and ZZ Top Eliminator, et al... That's just as stolen from that standpoint. What happened in "Yojimbo" was not that they took his film, and put their name on it (distributed by Miramar---which is basically what looks to be the case here...) What happened was the IDEA for the film was stolen without credit being given, or royalties paid. They then proceeded to make an IDENTICAL creation, and bill it as their own. Not what happened here... The idea wasn't stolen, the car was bought and paid for (and I don't know about you guys, but I don't have a royalty or license agreement contract I sign when I sell a car, and I HIGHLY doubt this builder did, either!) Now, it's halfway around the world for 3X the money and someone's pissed about it. It's supposedly about the theft of the creative juices that went into it (which I haven't seen any evidence of as yet....) But I suspect it's sour grapes over the possible thought someone would sell the car for 2X what you asked for, and couldn't get. Let's be real about possible motivations here. Were RA selling the car at a loss, would the PO offer to give them the $$$ to cover their poor 'investment'? Or would they be of the 'you bought it, you own it' mindset. Honestly answered? I'll ask some questions when I'm in the area. I'm curious. But being at arms length to all parties involved, and happening to have an in to speak with one of the concerned parties supposedly being a SOB.... I'm curious as to what the REAL story is, and not what some internet hawker fanboy site says to fill white space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 The car is no longer on their website, wonder if they sold it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLATA Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 The car is no longer on their website, wonder if they sold it? Bet it was, and for good $$$$$$. Good to see a nice/clean/detail Z Hybrid bringing top money, to bad that they don't command those figures in the US Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 The BIG problem, and I think the ROOT of the issue here is nothing was STOLEN.... He bought it. Which, if you read my points earlier....kinda changes stuff. Those of you referring to copyrights and etc referring to 'creations' seem to miss my point earlier about Henry Ford and ZZ Top Eliminator, et al... That's just as stolen from that standpoint. .... Not what happened here... The idea wasn't stolen, the car was bought and paid for (and I don't know about you guys, but I don't have a royalty or license agreement contract I sign when I sell a car, and I HIGHLY doubt this builder did, either!) Now, it's halfway around the world for 3X the money and someone's pissed about it. You're beating around the bush. It's a lie, a dishonesty, a fib, for Rocky Auto to say that they built that car. That's the issue. This isn't about the car, it's about what Rocky Auto said. It's about the words used to sell the car. Does Rocky Auto tell lies to sell cars? This question has to be answered first, then, of course, many words can be written about how "everybody lies" therefore it's okay. As far as stealing, taking credit for someone else's work is stealing. Doesn't matter if you bought the material good. Just like selling prints of of a painting tht you didn't paint is illegal. It's your paper and your printing equipment but the "thought" that went in to the work of art isn't yours to resell. To be blunt, Rocky Auto looks like a group of lying con men. If they were advertising "cars that we liked and bought and are now reselling", then everything you say about ownership would matter. But they're telling lies, so it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLATA Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) ^^^^^ I am getting a bag of pop corn , this saga continues>>>>>>>>>> Edited May 12, 2013 by PLATA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilC Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 Time to close this one.................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Let's at least define the issue correctly first. PLATA's just here for the entertainment, he has nothing useful to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLATA Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) MY dos centavitos>>>>What is wrong in stating that the car came from an avid Z lover that built this Z to that level, and that Rocky has done additional work to meet the NIPPON rules for street use, after all it is a very unique Z and a rare find that the current vendor/dealer can justified the price tag ^^^ that was a few days ago >>>>> Edited May 12, 2013 by PLATA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLATA Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) Let's at least define the issue correctly first. PLATA's just here for the entertainment, he has nothing useful ........... Well, soon my silver Z will travel the big pond>>>>>> and working on this deal for my next Z Edited May 12, 2013 by PLATA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 "It's a lie, a dishonesty, a fib, for Rocky Auto to say that they built that car." Not to be blunt r foul, but show me where the hell that's PROVEN WITH A VERIFIABLE QUOTE! SPEEDHUNTER'S offers it as "Rocky Auto's Latest Offering" and AGAIN I see NOWHERE a quote from ANYBODY at Rocky Auto CLAIMING THIS! "If they were advertising "cars that we liked and bought and are now reselling", then everything you say about ownership would matter." Fact f the matter is, and the reason I am SO INSISTENT about this is, having SAT IN THEIR SHOWROOM and talked previously about the RED LHD SUPERCHARGED CAR this is EXACTLY what was said to me! They liked the treatment on that car (who the hell built it, I have no clue, but it's an AZC Intake) and they bought it to use at shows to draw eyes (I think I mentioned this previously) and that at some point they would like to resell the car and buy something else interesting. So in fact, as apparently I am the ONLY guy here who has talked with these guys, and now people are quoting Almost VERBATIM what I got out of them last year...maybe NOW you can see why I have a hard time believing the demonisation of the guy when indeed what I got from him was, indeed "we liked and bought and are now reselling" So while most here want to NOT give them the benefit of the doubt, and cast them as evil bastards stealing credit...Because you dont now them, never met them, never went to their place of business... speaking as someone who HAS and come away with the above posited impression... Indeed "the stuff about ownership" does come into play... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I mean, outright you're stating "they're telling lies"... Well dude SHOW ME WHERE! That is NOT the story I got about the RED car...while if you look at a certain website, you MIGHT be interested to see how THEY hype it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators SuperDan Posted May 13, 2013 Administrators Share Posted May 13, 2013 Since reading walls of text makes my head hurt. Could someone point me to were someone from Rocky Auto said they built this car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLATA Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Since reading walls of text makes my head hurt. Could someone point me to were someone from Rocky Auto said they built this car? Here >>>>> http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/04/mixing-it-up-spotlighting-necs-2013/ it reads ''pieced together'', not Rocky but Speedhunters,,,FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 (edited) They didn't, Speedhunter's did, and having talked with RA about other US-Sourced cars in their inventory and not coming away with anything other than "we liked this car, bought it because we think we can flip it" from the owner... I have a hard time believing they changed their tune. Again, typical fanboy palaver from an Internet flashy photo site looking to fill white space...not Chronkite reporting on Vietnam casualty counts. Speedhunter's treatment of other cars is similar in the past. Like I said, I have already set up the appointment...I will be talking to the principal of RA sometime this year. Edited May 13, 2013 by Tony D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLATA Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 .................................... Like I said, I have already set up the appointment...I will be talking to the principal of RA sometime this year. Long wait on that info to be posted ..................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLATA Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I can see paying mega bucks with this sales team >>>>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 (edited) That's good enough for me. We've circled back to Speedhunter, from Post #51. Here's the quote from Speedhunter that implies that RockyAuto built the car - "Now working out of a brand new state-of-the-art workshop, Watanabe-san at Rocky Auto is able to churn out cool custom kyusha at an even faster pace than before! This USDM Datsun 240Z is something he pieced together in the last couple of months… …and it’s probably one of the cleanest cars we have ever seen from the famed resto-mod specialist." Here's "speedhunters_dino" in the comments claiming that RockyAuto gave the impression - "oops indeed. Seems he's not only playing the market as I was lead to believe something else..." From here - http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/04/mixing-it-up-spotlighting-necs-2013/ There's still a lot of written support in this thread (sample quote below) for the idea that calling someone ele's work your own is the way they do things in Japan. I don't believe that. But that's opinion so it's just more words in the end. From #46, Tony D - "If you sold it and walk away from the service...you aren't due the credit. That's the way it works there. If you want credit, set up shop there, and service what you sell. Otherwise you will merely be a minor footnote in the history of the vehicle." Posts like #46 are what have kept this thread alive. The statement above runs counter to my experience, which is limited, but real. Maybe the auto market is different. Just tying up loose ends. Good luck, PLATA, with your sale to RockyAuto. I hope it happens real soon. Edited May 13, 2013 by NewZed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLATA Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Good luck, PLATA, with your sale to RockyAuto. I hope it happens real soon. She will travel via the other pond ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,VOLVO Land ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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