My $300.00 78 280z project

[pet280]

Hey all,

   So about four months ago a friend at work came up to me. He told me his daughters boyfriend had 2 78 z's for sale. Of coarse both ruff projects, but $800 for both with clean titles what could it hurt.  I picked them up, one just a shell, other complete but ran pig rich.  The other kicker is that the later one only had 30 some thousand on the chaise.  With so much sitting comes problems too. I decided  to sell the the shell and got 500 for it, thus my 300 dollar project.   Anywho it was now time to get the other running right. 

 

     So this project is a 78 280z with the l28e, and the 5 speed.  Test pointed towards the injectors sticking open to long.  So put new injectors in it to no avail.  Next temp sensor with no change.  Than all new connectors on the engine harness.  This was getting old fast, being that all the voltage readings are showing good, and the fuel pressure is in spec of 40psi off, and 36-38psi running.  Further testing left me with either the MAF or ECM.  Being that getting good used parts are harder to find, and the rebuilt ones run around $300 or more I hit a wall.  Even the techs that Have been working at Nissan from the time this car was new were scratching their heads about the problem this car was having.  What to do? Spend that much on something that may not even fix it... I think not.

     I went with a MS2. Mind you that I am a professional mechanic. At Nissan currently for a year and a half, and Subaru for two years before that.  This was my first circuit board, or ecu build.  I learned a lot in the process, but it was defiantly a challenge.  Finally got her running though, and so far still only have about 1500 in it.  I know that there is a lot more to go but it is a fun project for sure.

[NewZed]

Test pointed towards the injectors sticking open to long.  So put new injectors in it to no avail.  Next temp sensor with no change.  Than all new connectors on the engine harness. 

 

This was getting old fast, being that all the voltage readings are showing good, and the fuel pressure is in spec of 40psi off, and 36-38psi running. 

 

Even the techs that Have been working at Nissan from the time this car was new were scratching their heads about the problem this car was having.  What to do? Spend that much on something that may not even fix it... I think not.

 

Mind you that I am a professional mechanic. At Nissan currently for a year and a half, and Subaru for two years before that. 

Posts like this are just confusing.  What kind of training have you had to become a professional mechanic?  Or are you self-trained?

 

40 psi off and 36-38 running is not "in spec". 

 

I am honestly curious.  If you're getting paid for auto repair that's great, I just wonder how one gets to a position like that.

 

Good luck with Megasquirt, it sounds like it's definitely worth doing, in general, on these old cars.

[pet280]

Hey ya old man newzed,

  

  Hows trying to be an internet bully going for ya?    With over 1700 post you would think you would know what an introduction  post is.  So to answer your question, this thread is not a question to confuse you, or to answer any of my questions. It is merely what I have done with my project car.

 

As far as training:

    

     -2009 Automotive transportation technology certificate 3.95 gpa from T.V.I/C.N.M. Albuquerque NM

     -2009-2011 Multiple Subaru Certified Technician course in Denver  CO

     - 2011- current, Online course's on nnanet.com, and studying for ASE certifications

 

 

I guess you can consider that self trained though. Being that I am a flat rate mechanic, I do get paid for doing automotive repairs.  Although mostly it is much newer cars. CVTs in newer Nissan's are crappy by the way, but gives steady work. I am mainly heavy line by the way. Yet I do know how to diagnose.  When I can swap a AWD Murano trans in half a day though. It is easier to make money on that.  Oh and one gets a position such as this by applying.  That was hard, I guess I should just sat on my ass, and lived off the gov...... sorry but f that, I didn't ask for a hand out. Nor do I expect to get one.

 

So what do you think fuel pressure spec is?  From what I have read on pg EF-37 of the fsm says 36.3 psi is minimum.  hmmmmm...... or pg 8 of the 280z fuel injection book/efi bible. This states that their should be a difference maintained of 36 psi...  Reading. The more you know.

 

Also It is running great on megasquirt. It is nice to know that I can take full advantage any mod.  Although plans are still up in the air on if I want to build the extra l28e I have, and put on the 03 jag x type r supercharger that my friend has. I might end up going with a v8 swap. Choices, choices....  It is nice though that 1978 cars no longer need emissions in Albuquerque.

[pet280]

On a second look at the forum I can see my mistake, and the reason of your possible confusion. This thread is misplaced, and should be in the build threads for the s30 not tech.  So for that alone I will say sorry. Also if I could ask a moderator to move it to the right location, thanks.

[tecreatta]

Pet280, you need to relax. Don't take everything so personally. HybridZ is a much more professional place then that. This isn't the silvia forums. I believe NewZed was just curious. Many members on this forum are older gentlemen. Much more so then other forums. They provide a plethora of information for us younger guys. There's no reason for an inflated ego and disrespect. Welcome to the forums.

[NewZed]

The internet is a very difficult place to verify someone's credentials or show an error without seeming like an ass (or showing that you might actually be one [talking about me]).  I thought it might touch a nerve so pet280 is entitled to respond if he's offended.  No biggy.

 

I was curious about what qualifies as "tech" or professional.  It's surprising how many people post that they're professionals, or techs, but have problems with the very fundamental early EFI system.  40 versus 36.3 wouldn't qualify as "in spec." to me.  10% over.  You've got the numbers, you just see something different.  It would probably work okay but a little rich.  But you couldn't make the EFI system work even though you're a professional, trained mechanic.  It just shows why this forum and others like it are so popular.

 

No offense, you just gave an opportunity to learn the state of the "Tech".  Next time you take a course with a live instructor, bring an old 280Z in to stump the instructors.  It will be fun.

Edited May 13, 2013 by NewZed

[pet280]

I didn't wright my post as a sing of disrespect. Yet the old man comment is more that you are a senior member.  I cant really say I am a kid anymore myself now that I am 30..... (I am almost as old as my car.)  I do have to admit I have seen many different forums threw the years. Yes a lot of people make stuff up on the inter-webs.  (What people lie on the internet? Call All Gore.... hahahaha)  It did touch a nerve, in the way you wrote it but as you stated best zed, 'no biggy.'

 

I do have to say that the bosh l jet fuel injection system is very different than modern systems.  I have a much better understanding of the obd0,1,2 and can systems.   I think you read it wrong though newzed. 40 psi is what the fuel pressure held at with the car off/ not running, or cranking.  when running or cranking it was at 36 psi+/- 1 or 2 psi. (Really just would stay at 36psi at idle.) Given Albuquerque is about a mile above sea level. 

 

I also had it narrowed down to it most likely being the afm. Although after looking at cost and later plans, it was more logical to go with a stand alone that would be able to run any fuel injected motor.  That is rather than spend a couple of hundred bucks on a part I would scrap if I swap to a ls, or rb.  Another added bonus of the MS system is the streaming data.

 

A side note, I did get the car to run with the stock set up if i manually moved the door on the afm in line with the throttle. Didn't have much luck in rebuilding it myself though. 

[cgsheen]

Read the FSM.  Fuel pressure is not a static value.  The FPR is supposed to maintain a 36.3PSI differential  between fuel pressure and manifold pressure.  If you're pulling a 10 PSI vacuum at idle, the fuel pressure should read ~26.3 (example values - take your actual manifold vacuum pressure and subtract it from 36.3 - If you're in boost, add your boost pressure - I know I do   - (sorry, I know the OP has no turbo, that's just for the guys that do...)).  Explanation and chart in the Factory Service Manual.

 

Just about every newbie thinks "it's the AFM" - most of the time it isn't (until someone screws with the AFM, THEN it's definately the AFM!).  Unfortunately, there are very few AFM's left out there that haven't be molested in some way.  In reality, most of them should never have been touched.  If yours is unopened, untouched, you should leave it that way until you've checked, cleaned, checked, cleaned every other sensor, component, wire and connector on the EFI harness.  How to test all of that is in the FSM...

[mannyvig]

He probably wanted to know about your training because there was quite a bit of misdiagnosis on your own vehicle. And as I'm sure you and everyone else knows, almost anyone with tools can swap parts but only a real tech can diagnose without replacing anything.

What Nissan store in Albuquerque do you work for. I worked at Melloy for quite a while and was Shop Foreman at Garcia Infiniti as well. If you're at Reliable, I'm sorry. Great to see another NM guy with an s30. Check out the Albuquerque Z club, they're pretty knowledgeable cats.

Looks like a great shell, hopefully I can see it in person someday.

[pet280]

Yep I did confirm with the master techs/ team leaders, Dave, Jhon, Tomas, and even Fransisco.  So Melloy Nissan, and yes I have know you Manny.  Knew you from Garcia Subaru.

 

I will have to look at the fuel pressure to put this to rest.  Even at that I haven't heard of 4psi making a car run pig rich.  Yet at the same time the cars I normally work on have an o2 sensor that will try to lean it out.  Anywho the z is running great on the mega squirt.

[mannyvig]

Oh, shit... is this Peter? Looks like I'm going to be taking over at the Santa Fe store in a couple weeks so we will definitely have to work on some Zcars. That's awesome that you got bit by the Z bug. Not a whole lot of guys running MS in town, but there are a couple guys who are wizard MS tuners up there, I would be glad to introduce.

[Chris Duncan]

You got a good deal, I paid $1650 for my 280 builder and that's the going rate up here.

 

It's a '75 280, going with the RB26. I've done the Chevy V8, it fits really nice and is more affordable, but heavy unless you go for aluminum heads.

 

I got the R32 front clip with rear suspension assembly for $4500 (the going rate), but it must have sat for years and a couple of the bores are rusted so it's going to need a bore job. Shame because the rings were still tight, couldn't have been more than 50K miles. I had a 30 day warranty but didn't want to mess around with the return and waiting for them to get another long block in.

 

I built the Chevy hybrid for around $6K total (late '80's). This project is going to be closer to $20K but it will have all the nice stuff.

 

It's a small world. I worked at Malloy back in the '80's. (With Dave, John, and Danny)

 

[Tony D]

" So about four months ago a friend at work came up to me. He told me his daughters boyfriend had 2 78 z's for sale. Of coarse both ruff projects, but $800 for both with clean titles what could it hurt."

 

Oh yeah....this is how it starts...

 

This is how it starts...

[Pharaohabq]

Funny, that's how I got my cats too..  "Take Two they're small...  "   But The Z bug is there, waiting to bite and suck unsuspecting gearheads into our fold. 

 

So, 30K on the Odo? How does it look inside: dash/seats and all that?  I wonder if it was garaged, not many survivors left.

[pet280]

<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=4242835007605" width="720" height="1280" frameborder="0"></iframe>

 

 

So it was and is running at 32-33psi at idle.  Been a couple of months from the original test I forgot..... sorry.

 

And yep Manny it is me peter. 

 

 And no it was left out in the NM sun, so the seats are torn.  The dash has large cracks all the way threw it.  Over all I have made it look ok.  And it has some nice cold A/C, no heat though. The hoses under the dash were leaking, so by passed for now.

[pet280]

. Not a whole lot of guys running MS in town, but there are a couple guys who are wizard MS tuners up there, I would be glad to introduce.

Yeah I could defiantly could use some help on the fuel tables.  I got the acceleration enrichment dead on, but cost still goes too lean.

[mannyvig]

http://www.clockworkcalibrations.com/

Talk to Tim or Jim. They specialize in turbo volvos but they are the best MS guys in town. Let them know I sent you.

[pet280]

Thanks will have to check em out.

 

So Chris, I have heard that the 350 swaps actually weighed less than the l28 anchor.  I haven't gotten to much in to the research of it yet.  Yeah the Rb swaps never really seem cheep.