New 75 280 Build, something a bit different.

[Rocket Rodent]

Hey all, long time luker.

 

I have recently purchased a field recovery 280 for fairly cheap.  I am in the process of stripping the car of all her sheet metal to do a media blast and sheet metal repair.  Looking at replacing both floor boards and the driver side frame rail.  The rest of the body appears to be in excellent shape.

 

Now for the odd bit.  I have recently totalled my Genesis Coupe with a 2.0T.  I plan on swapping out the L28 for the Theta out of the GC.  Thoughts or suggestions on this?  I know everything I'll be doing is uncharted territory.  I will have the complete GC and will most likely do a "simple" cut and paste of all the major systems of the GC in the S30, which from spitballing and some tape measure guesswork looks like it will fit easily.

 

I've got some before pics of the 280, and of the wrecked GC.  (I know the damage on the GC doesn't look bad, frame was twisted.)

 

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2013 by Rocket Rodent

[Pharaohabq]

Whoa! is that rust on that 280, or is it painted rust color?    You could really spend a lot cleaning that up, but hey you said you were going to strip and media blast it, so I can't wait to see how it turns out.  I hope that you'll post pictures of the process.

 

Now for the GC swap:  There's a lot of advice I could give.  It's awesome you've got the complete donor. that's really great, that means the cut/paste of each system you move over should be pretty straightforward. The first recommendation would be that you get ahold of the FSM or a really good manual for the GC.   The GC is a RWD car so that should be pretty good. It's also rated at 270+HP which isn't anything little from a 4 banger 2.0 stock engine. So You'll need to decide how much you want to move over.  I would assume you're taking the 6 sp or auto tranny with you. so you won't have to worry about the Datsun tranny, though you'll need to have a driveshaft shop make a shaft for you once the engine is in place.  Hope you can Weld. This is going to require a little.

 

The Engine doesn't look much different than the SR20 or the KA24 engines, so read up on those swaps .  You may be able to use a lot of the same mounting.   When pulling apart the donor DON'T CUT ANY WIRES,  it went together w/o cutting, you can take it apart w/o cutting. and LABEL EVERYTHING as you remove the plugs. likely you can leave the engine harness connected to the engine.   You'll need to decide how much of the GC systems you're going to move over.  Just the engine?  Sure, but you'll likely need the dash harness as well as any Security modules, and of course the ECU. The FSM for the GC can really give you an idea of what's required.  

 

Likely you'll also need to change the Fuel pump and probably the lines from the Datsun. But you can do that when you get there.  Conscentrate on one project as a time. your primary goal is getting the Engine fom the GC into the S30.  It would be easy to start trying to move interior and all sorts of stuff over, but if you don't get the engine going, than nothing else matters. So keep your eye on the prize.

 

Map out what steps you're going to take to do the swap, that way you'll nave less wasted time. A notebook, or better a chalk/dry-erase board can really help you from day to day or week to week to stay on track.   Don't throw anything away till you're done with the swap. There's nothing like realizing you missed an important module after you had the donor body hauled off.   So planning and preservation are key elements.

 

You may later want to use the GC dash or gauges, likely you'll have to include the GC diff in your swap to use them. So identify that and hopefully it's common enough to be adaptible to an S30 w/o much trouble.   Lights? Sure you can use the GC harnesses, so why not the lights?  Oh, you will likely have to go aftermarket and adapt things. that's a later project.   So Keep your eye on the prize, and you'll get through it soon enough.  

Edited May 24, 2013 by Pharaohabq

[Rocket Rodent]

The paint luckily is rust colored.(Go Datsun on poor color choices.)  The worst part was the hood which will not be reused.  I have another 280 hood that has the vent louvers that I'll be using. 

 

Thanks for the feedback.  I've gone through the FSM for the GC, luckily the trim model I have has exactly no anti-theft deterence built in aside from a central locking system with a door alarm.  Everything is modular and well marked, I really dig the build quality the Koreans have been pushing here lately.  I suspect the hardest part will be trying to adapt the Thorsen LSD of the GC to the rear end of the S30.  One of the perks of home ownership is that I can leave the donor car under a cover without attracting any undue attention while I whittle it down.

 

The one piece that I am going to regret not being able to move over are going to be the stock Brembo's... there is no way they'll stuff into anything smaller than 18's and the S30 doesn't look right with anything bigger than 15".

[Gollum]

Mike Kelly's car looks alright with 18's, but it's the minority of the bunch.

 

In theory you can move over as much as you feel like, but there are certainly things that require more engineering than others. Engines are fairly straight forward, while I consider the diff slightly more complicated for the payoff and expense. While you might gain a nice LSD you'll probably spend $1,000+ just in getting custom axles made. You could convert the hubs over, but then things can get real crazy real quick.

 

The project Juke-GTR is a great example of how crazy you can get with an idea like this. In theory it will ALL transfer over, it's just a matter of effort and money you choose to put in.

 

Personally, I'd do the engine, trans, and gauges and be happy with that.

 

And all that said, I can't wait to see progress pics. Helluva project.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Gollum

[LanceVance]

The one piece that I am going to regret not being able to move over are going to be the stock Brembo's... there is no way they'll stuff into anything smaller than 18's and the S30 doesn't look right with anything bigger than 15".

Don't dismiss them right off! One of my neighbors has a GC and I can't help eye those shiney Brembos every time I walk out. They just might fit with some work, and considering you've already got them...

[Pharaohabq]

That's great you've already looked through the GC FSM, that puts you way ahead.  Take some measurments, you'll need to see how tall the GC engine will sit and how long it is from  front to back.  The S30 frame rails are 25" apart.  so that shouldn't be a big deal, and from the pictures I've seen, you shouldn't have to worry about the steering shaft to the rack.   Look at how McKinney did their mounts. You may be able to use something similar to be able to slide the engine forward and back till you get the positioning where you want it. 

 

Those Brembos, they're nice, but if you don't think they'll fit then don't waste time, you can likely sell them for some serious $ on Ebay.  The S30 can take 16" wheels IMHO, without looking too funny so long as the rubber you put on them is low profile, and wide.  Some people even go 17" but they have their reasons. Certainly you can do the Toyota swap, it's well documented. That's another project though.

 

Now that Differential. I assume you're meaning torsen. Pretty nice Diff.  They're putting them in a lot of cars, but you're going to have some custom work to fit it in the S30.  They're going for about 500 bucks on Ebay, so that's really tempting.  If you make a modified RT mount with perpendicular ears it should work.  The moustache bar will need an adapter plate made.

 

I don't see any sensor wheels on the stock output shafts, so the GC probably uses a sensor in the tranny for the Speedo, which makes that easier.  look at this link for Torsen equipped vehicles,  that might help us find output shafts that could be modded to work with a set of ZX shafts for the S30. 

 

http://www.torsen.com/files/Torsen_WORLDWIDE_Application_Chart_2011-12-02.pdf

 

I'm really interrested in this application, since Torsen Diffs are being used in so many cars and sound a lot better than Clutch or Viscus LSD's.  I believe OBX makes a helical for the R200, but I'm not sure the fit for a Datsun R200. Have to ask about that. 

 

It's great there's no Anti theft built in so the swap should be pretty straightforward engine-wise.  Using the stock electronics  may be a lot of fun. I'm not sure how hard or if it's possible to swap in the whole dash.  but the alternative is modding the GC cluster to fit. You may have to use aftermarket gauges.   for my VQ swap I'm planning on cutting a 350Z cluster apart and fitting it into the stock 280Z pods with plugs and wires to link the parts I cut out.  yeah it'll be a pain.  if I fail it's aftermarket, so I don't have anything but time to lose.  I don't know your skillset, so I'd recommend going with aftermarket. Keep your eye on the prize, everything else can come later. 

 

Btw: what is your focus?  Are you building this as a Daily Driver? Track? it may make a difference long term.

 

 

[Rocket Rodent]

My final goal was to make this just be a fun car.  Looking at some SCCA/ AutoCross events in my area.  The main goal was to do something a bit different than the normal Z rebuild.  The car is in rough shape and its a common 280 so there was never a plan for a full factory restore (saving that for a 240 when/if I come across a good candidate.)  My initial plan was to go the VQ route but now I have a 350 that replaced the GC.  I really liked the motor in the GC with its small and fast to spool turbo, I think it will be a good fit for the much lighter S30 chassis.

 

Btw does anyone know anyone that wants a relatively good L28/ 4 Speed tranny combo?  I also have what looks to be a complete set a replacement gears for the 4 speed still NIB (wax covered OEM nissan parts).  Its missing a starter and doesn't look to have run in about 10 years.  I would have done more testing but the original harness looks has been cut all the pieces and very poorly spliced back together.  (One of the main reasons for abandoning the L28) 

$100 for the set, you come and pull it.

[Rocket Rodent]

Updates:

 

Most of the unuseable stuff from the GC has been sold off leaving me with basically a shell, some seats and the important electrical bits.

 

I've got the Datsun nearly completely tore down.  Media blaster has arrived but it has been raining everyday for the last week, so... no blasting for me.  Pulled the main body harness of the datsun to convert the fuse block to the blade type.

 

Anyone else ever planning on doing this build:  this is a lot easier going than I had expected.  Tearing down a 2010 car is a lot easier than tearing down the one built in 1975. 

 

Update album:

 

http://vecanis.imgur.com

[Tony D]

Getting the big parts in is the easy part.

I usually show up to buy the lot of it about four wires and one frustrating evening away from completion...

[Pharaohabq]

exactly Tony.  So many projects gain a lot of weight the longer they go on.  

 

I see you said you're playing with the Datsun harness. You may want to wait on that till you get the GC harness in, you'll likely find that you want to use the fusebox and power distribution from the GC.  Look at the FSM for the GC and see that a lot of things are setup modularly, as is really common in most newer cars This means you can retrofit off the newer harness to the old accessories and preserve a lot of the newer systems.  So I'd recommend you get that GC engine in place then start with the main body harness and then see what sub harnesses you're going to need.  That'll save you a lot of time down the road when you find out all your marker lights and headlights all can be plugged straight in, or pig-tailed off the GC harness.  

 

I'd hang the GC harnesses on a 4x8 sheet of plywood  and label each plug as you're deciding to use it in the S30.  Don't go cutting out anything from your GC haresses yet even if you think you're not going to ever use it.  You're not worrying about weight at this point. It's much easier to troubleshoot when you know you haven't boogered anything up yourself.  So again, eye on the prize, Get that engine and diff dropped in.

[Rocket Rodent]

The plan was to use most of the GC's wiring.  Really the only parts of the Datsun harness I was planning on keeping were the lights and the wipers.  Everything else is going to go away.  I've got the GC still in running condition as it will still need to go to the fab shop once I have the sheet metal work done on the Z.  Floor boards will be here this week.  I've also worked out how to adapt the GC's fuel tank to the 280's frame.  I had to cut out the spare tire well due to rust... made a lot of room there.  If it wasn't for the rust and the boat anchor of an L28 I'd most likely have a driveable car. 

 

Anyone want an L28?  N42 head with the appropriate block.  No clue on the condition of the internals.  All you need to do is come and get it... I'd hate to have to recycle the motor as I think this is a fairly desirable head/block combo.