Tilting radiator

[JMortensen]

Never relocated a rad before, want to tilt it forward. Questions are about 1) filling the system, 2) catch can, and 3) steam pipe on LS engines.

 

1. I bought an inline rad hose filler from Jegs. 1.5" diameter. This fits the bottom rad hose, which on the LS1 is the inlet. This is actually the lower hose coming off of the water pump, so I figured I'd just get some elbows and move the hose around so that this is the highest part of the cooling system so that I can burp it. Does it matter if you fill the system on the hot side or the cold side? Is there an issue with the rad cap not blowing off because it is plumbed in on the cold side?

 

2. If you put the catch can off of the rad and the engine gets hot enough to push open the rad cap, wouldn't the lower level of the rad cap allow whatever coolant was higher in the system to run down and out the overflow? Seems like I should plug the overflow on the rad (1/8 NPT pipe plug would do it on this rad) and then plumb the reservoir off of the high mounted filler.

 

3. The steam pipe on the LS apparently is normally routed to the hot end of the radiator. It would be a lot easier to route if I could just run it right back into the filler neck, which would be in the inlet hose to the water pump. Hoping that the small amount of heat in there wouldn't throw off the cooling to such a degree that it would be a problem when driving. 

 

Thoughts?

[socorob]

Don't know if this will help in your situation or not, but... The last car I had the engine was higher than the radiator. It had a reverse flow cooling system. The way I used to do the initial fills was to remove the upper radiator hose from the radiator. I would fill the radiator slowly as to not make an air pocket until it started coming out the upper outlet on the radiator where the hose was just removed from. I would then fill the engine through the upper radiator hose that I turned up as much as I could. I would fill it to the top of the hose and try to stick it back on and tighten it very quickly. That would get it about 99% full. Then I would keep an eye on the overflow bottle as it would suck a little out of there the first few times I drove it until it was filled (which wasn't much).

[JMortensen]

Interesting, but I don't think it's particularly helpful to my case.

 

I'm thinking maybe I should exchange this filler for the 1.25" version and put the filler in the hot side, then I could run the steam fitting to it and it would also be on the hot side. 

[Domzs]

Radiator cap has 2 functions . 1. Bleed off press as coolant expands when hot ( the press spring does this job ) , 2. Allows coolant to return to system when coolant contracts as it's cooling down , which creates vac./suction in the system ( the jiggle/check  valve job , it will open to allow coolant to return ) . When mounting rad cap low , it might not work as designed . 15 yrs in auto business , I haven't seen one done on lower hose . IMO , don't think it will work .

[RebekahsZ]

I just figure air rises so I put the steam vent outlet at the highest point in my system: top tank of radiator. Sounds like you are making progress.

[socorob]

You could use Evans waterless coolant and then there would be no pressure.

[Domzs]

You could use Evans waterless coolant and then there would be no pressure.

It's still a liquid . When heated in a closed circuit cooling system  it will expand . Expansion equals press .

[socorob]

No expansion, at least not at car engine temperatures I think it was on wheeler dealers where he popped the radiator cap off a totally hot engine and not a drop came out. He was using gloves of course because it is still the same temp as the water would be. They were talking about how it doesn't corrode aluminum engines like a water based coolant will. It is expensive though.Jay Leno uses it in his Duesenburg to stop corrosion.

http://youtu.be/s-NfA17q0MQ

[Domzs]

_{No expansion, at least not at car engine temperatures I think it was on wheeler dealers where he popped the radiator cap off a totally hot engine and not a drop came out. He was using gloves of course because it is still the same temp as the water would be. They were talking about how it doesn't corrode aluminum engines like a water based coolant will. It is expensive though.Jay Leno uses it in his Duesenburg to stop corrosion.}

_{http://youtu.be/s-NfA17q0MQ}

 

_{It's hard to believe that it won't expand after driving for awhile ( we're talking about heat and press from w/p ) . ATF has no water and it expands when hot . If it doesn't expand and build press , would they rec not to use press rad cap ? It'd be cool to fill it and completely seal it ( with none press cap ) and not have to check your coolant unless you have a leak . And no more coolant bottle needed .}

[NewZed]

No expansion, at least not at car engine temperatures

It's on the internet, it must be true. 

[socorob]

While trying to find that video I ran across a few of people in the Middle East in the desert showing that their cars don't overheat any more using it. The question is what do they mean by not overheat? Since it doesn't boil it won't start steaming out like normal stuff would, BUT would the temperature still get high enough to do damage, even though there aren't any visible warning signs. The guys on the videos I watched said they do stay cooler though.

[Tony D]

To the OP:

Regarding a pressure relief in the lower hose (inlet) -- don't do it! It will burp out hot liquid coolant when reaching the relief pressure.

 

The setup is generally if you have a low point fill point then you have to "burp from" someplace higher up in the system. That higher point is where the radiator cap goes.

 

You will note many new cars don't have radiator caps on the radiator. They are on some cheap see-through plastic pressure vessel...which is where you add the coolant as well. I made a radiator like the JTR design cross flow with side tanks and no radiator cap. It was on the old Datsun Roadster expansion tank (Corvettes had them too)... All my steam lines went to that tank as well. If you vent steam to the radiator you want it on the hot end so it will condense back to liquid coolant in the process. The caveat being if you are blowing from a head gasket, that WILL push your coolant out the expansion tank, out the overflow line on the exp. tank, and eventually fill your radiator with steam and not water. For this reason I followed "old corvette" tech, and put the steam lines to the high point expansion tank. If it blows over, STEAM comes out, not displaced coolant!

 

And that goes for Evan's fluid as well....get high pressure air (combustion blowby weepy fire ring) and a low point rad, it pukes it all out as you drive along... It's not pretty!

 

Anyway, despite the Evans digression, I think I answered the q's originally posed...

[Domzs]

It's on the internet, it must be true. 

I like .

[Tony D]

From Evans website:

 

"At extreme cold temperatures the coolants contract and become extremely thick, not becoming solid and expanding like antifreeze containing water."

 

Uh, the way I read that is they DO EXPAND, otherwise they could not "contract"...eh?

 

They mention -40.... Where does this "extreme thickening" begin? Like Arco Graphite "see, it's liquid at operating temperature!" Uh, yeah, how do you pump jello? Frankly, if it "freezes" at -40 as it states on it's website, there is NO WAY I would be using this where I formerly lived! No way, no how!

 

Boiling at 375 is equivalent to EG 100%, which I believe is also a "waterless coolant" but sure as hell doesn't FREEZE at -40!!!

Edited August 29, 2013 by Tony D

[socorob]

It's on the internet, it must be true. 

It was on TV first.

[JMortensen]

Just to clarify, whichever hose I use will have the filler as the highest point in the system. The question was whether to have the cap and filler on the hot side or the cold side, since I had already purchased the filler for the cold side. I decided to return that part and fill on hot side so that I could plumb the steam pipe into the filler and I think that makes more sense in terms of the rad cap opening up sooner. I will plug the rad cap bypass on the radiator itself and use the one on the filler to attach to the overflow.

[Domzs]

Jon , do you have any pics of your setup ?

[JMortensen]

Just a pile of parts at the moment. Looking to figure this out so that when I get the motor in (should happen in the next week or so) then I can cut out the stock rad support and start work on this.

[Domzs]

Just a pile of parts at the moment. Looking to figure this out so that when I get the motor in (should happen in the next week or so) then I can cut out the stock rad support and start work on this.

Are you running turbo , why cutting the rad support ?

[JMortensen]

No turbo, NA V8. Doing a radiator exhaust out the hood, and laying the rad down helps with that. Also have the cage tied into the front struts, so don't need the structure there for strength.