engine swap 73 240 ???

[parman]

Ok  just bought a 73 240 and I want to do an engine swap. I have read so many opinions on do this, do that, don't do this and don't do that. I own a body shop and I know how and what I am going to do to the body. I need opinions on the engine swap. I want something I can get in everyday and go as far as I want and I want it to get there fast. I am not trying to build a track car. thinking of an Ls1 or Ls2. I have also read alot about RB25, 26, 30. I know it is a matter of opinion but I want to know the level of difficulty and part availability. Also I would like to know if anyone out there has ever swapped with a nissan 5.6 Titan ...   Just need some help

 

[ctc]

I know of two 5.6 Titan swaps, one into an S130, that are documented here.  One was complete and one wasn't.  Based on the part availability comment, you should stick to engines that are domestically available.  That would rule out all the RB's. 

 

Do some searching and PM people who have done the RB swaps, ask them how it's been driving the car after the RB is installed and what issues they have had.  IMHO a RB swap is more of a prestige, keep the heritage kind of swap because of the cost and parts sourcing issues involved.  Some will say you can do an RB swap cheap and easy, but I would converse with those who have pulled it off well (there are a few examples on this site) to find out the real story.  I think most will agree a well executed RB swap will take a great deal of thought and bucks.  Again my opinion only, but I think there are a few issues with the RB swaps that get glossed over in the sparkle of the that first youtube engine start up video.  Two of the top of my head are transmission choices and how hard the RB was flogged before you got it.

 

The LS1/2 swaps are well documented and would initially be your best choice if you are set on an engine swap.  Part availability is not an issue and great domestic aftermarket support.

 

Do not fail to consider all the other body modification that may be required (engine cross members, fire wall, trans tunnel) that may or may not be required based on the swap you choose.  Also consider the rest of the drivetrain and things like guages, cooling and interfacing with the vehicle wiring.

 

My real suggestion to you is not to read opinions but talk with those who have completed the swaps and have driving cars.  Then decide on what direction you want to go.

Edited October 10, 2013 by ctc

[wrcbonk]

Note: I love my rb 240z and I am not saying engine swaps aren't rewarding and the results aren't amazing, BUT...

 

I started my RB25DET swap several years ago.  Its been driving for a while, but there have been many issues.  The motor started right up and yes I documented that on YouTube.  But after that, getting road worthy, to be a reliable car thats a whole other matter.  Fuel delivery was a major issue for a while, still have a venting problem.  Right now I am dealing with radiator fan switch.  Its an example of what happens when you do a swap.  The 240z came with a fan clutch.  The RB came with a fan clutch, but the 240z shroud didn't line up with the RB fan.  So now you have to figure out how to I mate them together or do I just go with electric fans.  Electric fans require a sensor/switch to turn them on and the electrical circuits to control them.  There's nothing off the shelf that works well.  You will have many of the same issues if you do a V8 swap as well.    

 

One pretty cool idea as long as you can handle tuning carbs is to have an L-series built by Robello.  A stroker 3.2 or more will deliver seriously awesome power and it all bolts up together just like it was from the factory.

 

my 2 cents

[xtreme_240z]

Note: I love my rb 240z and I am not saying engine swaps aren't rewarding and the results aren't amazing, BUT...

 

I started my RB25DET swap several years ago.  Its been driving for a while, but there have been many issues.  The motor started right up and yes I documented that on YouTube.  But after that, getting road worthy, to be a reliable car thats a whole other matter.  Fuel delivery was a major issue for a while, still have a venting problem.  Right now I am dealing with radiator fan switch.  Its an example of what happens when you do a swap.  The 240z came with a fan clutch.  The RB came with a fan clutch, but the 240z shroud didn't line up with the RB fan.  So now you have to figure out how to I mate them together or do I just go with electric fans.  Electric fans require a sensor/switch to turn them on and the electrical circuits to control them.  There's nothing off the shelf that works well.  You will have many of the same issues if you do a V8 swap as well.    

 

One pretty cool idea as long as you can handle tuning carbs is to have an L-series built by Robello.  A stroker 3.2 or more will deliver seriously awesome power and it all bolts up together just like it was from the factory.

 

my 2 cents

I know this is off topic. But were you list the electric fan. I found a solution for our 3.1 stroke, if you find a late model s30, 280 i believe. The factory thermostat has 2 holes for senors. 1 for the water temp gauge and another for the fan. Plus the electric fan relay to that and its been the best method for us no more probes in the rad. 

 

Also since were looking into possibly getting rid of our 3.1 and going for a rebello. for them to make you one fully built its and approx, 10k cost 

[Six_Shooter]

There are many off the shelf electric fan controllers available from basic probe through the rad to full digital control, so to say "There's nothing off the shelf that works well" is not a correct statement. 

 

The problems listed can arise in any swap, or not happen at all. I've done several swaps over the years in many different cars, some went on without a hitch, and some had a few issues. It's a part of swaps. Sometimes with the best planning something can be overlooked or not accounted for and problems might show up, or something thrown together can have no issues. It's a part of swaps...

 

Before you toss out the L-series in the car (I'm assuming it's still in there), consider keeping it, and either building it N/A or adding a turbo.

My '73 still has the L28 that was in the car when I got it, I have added EFI and and a turbo, which was only supposed to hold me over for a year or so until I got to my swap, that was 5 years ago. I still haven't performed the swap, and I've had the engine that I plan to swap in longer than I've owned the car. I drive my car everywhere and treat it like I hate it every time I drive it, and it just keeps going. The only "major" issue I've had was a head gasket go on me last year, but from the look of the gasket it could have been going before I bought the car, just the 4 years of abuse and trying to run it on the edge of tuning finally took it out. It would have been easy to run a safer tune than I had been, I just like to find the edges. So basically what I'm saying it, it doesn't take a swap to have something reliable, just some planning.

[Phantom]

I was in the same position 12 years ago with my '77 280Z.  Do I do a stroker L28?  Do I turbocharge the L28?  Do I do a V8 conversion?  If I do a V8 conversion what kind of V8 do I do?  My goal was to have at least 250 HP and have the reliability you'd find in a car fresh out of an OEM showroom.  I made the decision to do an LS1/T56 swap.  There hadn't been many done at the time and a lot of mistakes were being made by those doing them.  I opted for the LS1 because it was lighter than the L28 and would move my CofG down and back.  It also was reasonably priced and parts were relatively inexpensive and plentiful. I opted for the T56 because I like to row gears and the T56 was already mated to the LS1. I then went to John Radevich at Johns Cars in Dallas and, over the course of a year, convinced him to do the swap and develop a sellable "kit" for other enthusiasts. The LS1/T56 swap added 30 lbs to the weight of my car - all of it on the rear wheels. The car handles like a dream and is really quick.  Years later my son, DarthZ, ended up with Grenade300's '73 240Z who published the "how to" manual referred to in this forum.  I've driven mine and I've driven his.  His 240 is 500 lbs lighter than my car and his LS1 puts out about 70 more HP.  Where mine is a beast, his is an absolute HP monster.  My 2 cents for what it's worth.

[Pharaohabq]

I'm sure you've read a lot of the Swap threads. So whatever you choose, make sure you have the right reasons for doing a swap.  It's not going to be cheap, and the reliability fully depends on the quality of your work.  What do you want the end product to be?  What are you going to use it for? 

 

Obviously getting a prefab kit to go with whatever engine you choose is going to be best since you won't have to recreate the work other people have already put in.  Things should line up well on a quality kit.  Of course no kit is going to handle everything, but the major hurdles are going to be addressed. so that will save you a lot of work.  So you've basically got to decide where you want to be in the end, Select an engine to get you there. (I'd love to see that new caddie twin turbo -450hp-  dropped in one). Then select your mounts, then engine management - aftermarket, stock, whichever, then  go on to fuel, gauges cooling and cosmetics.  Since you have your shop you should be pretty comfortable with the cost of the work.  We are here to cheer you on and help you sort things out if you get a snag.  of course we love pictures, so let us know what you decide. Personally I love the VQ engines, I can tell you a lot if you decide that direction. (check the V6 area) 

[rejracer]

I would agree with Bonk, there are no off the shelf bolt in solutions for most swaps.  Yes there are parts that can be made to work, but I've not seen any off the shelf swap solutions on these cars.  But with that said, engineering and fabrication is part of the motor swap territory.  Expect to have to buy or make your own solutions.  Bonk's first fan controller on paper was very good.  In reality, no so much, it failed in about a year or so of minimal operation.  Now those neat and tidy "solutions" turn into engineering exercises as replacing a fan controller now consists of hacking the thing out and soldering in a new one.  Good luck buying one at the local autozone.  Now if you were to wire up a solution using a GM or Ford temp switch and standard 4 pin relay, your chance of getting a replacement part right away is much higher.  Also the ability to swap out just a sensor or relay is an attractive option, which is prob why OEMs do it that way. 

 

Specifically on fan controllers, I've seen 2 of them so far on different swaps.  Both worked for a while, and both failed.  When you get into the world of aftermarket parts vs OEM parts, you will notice "aftermarket" comes in 3 varieties. 

1. Absolute garbage. (the vast majority of parts out there)

2. rebranded oem parts (racer/ricer tax)

3. Quality engineered and built products. 

 

The quality stuff is expensive, but as is said, buy cheap, buy twice.  The principles of what I just covered apply to every system you will need to address. 

 

Now on to which engine to choose?  It took Bonk 2 years to get his swap on the road.  Now much of this was waiting on suppliers, reading, and getting info from misc sources.  The car turned out great, but to get it right was expensive and very time consuming. 

 

I did an L28ET swap.  It took me 7 days from engine pull to startup.  Out of the 7 days, 2 days of  was diagnosis of the old engine, 1 day break.  It really took me 4 days work to get the swap done, because it's all OEM/ bolt in.  That's a swap with all guages working and OEM reliable, I drove it for a year every day with Zero issues.  That's Nada, zilch, nothing.  The reason for me spouting off on the L28ET swap vs the RB/LSx/Toyota is to highlight the difference in time it will take for someone asking BASIC questions on a swap.  If you want it up and running quick, go L28ET.  If you want a more powerful inline, go with the RB or toyota engine, if you want max power and parts availabilty, go LSx.

 

The L28ET is a fast swap, parts are now getting hard to come by, but a great platform for incremental upgrades. 

The RB is a very smooth running swap, but it was never introduced to the US, so parts availability is more limited. 

The LSx is the most costly initially, but the most powerful and parts will be available in decades to come.   

 

Lastly, decide what you are going to use the car for.  If you are building a street car, then I would say around half the info on this site is irrelevant.  A street car, road race car, drift car and drag car are all built different.  I find it helpful to know where a persons background is.  If a person has a narrow background they usually give great advice on that area, but really bad advice on everything else.  From your original post, sounds like you want a fast street car.  Based on that I might suggest thinking twice about taking advice from a drag racer. 

"what do you mean a 4000 rpm stall is too much on the street?" 

Ahem, yeah, if you need an explanation to that in context to a daily driven street car, you don't know the definition of "Street car".  Drag race drive train installed in a car with functioning blinkers is not "street car". 

 

Which ever route you go, match your parts to your goal.  This principle applies to all swaps, regardless of which engine/trans is chosen.  Just about any stock drive train swapped in will be a good drive train for a daily driven street car.  The 3 possible candidates above increases in cost and power as you go down the list.

My original 2.8L N42 head/block with Stock SU's ran great, lots of fun, but not fast. 

My bone stock L28ET runs great and is quite a bit more powerful, especially down low, from 2500 to 5500. 

Bonk's RB25DET is much smoother, refined and powerful than my L28ET, but cost 4 to 5 times what I spent on the L28ET.

I think a LSX swap cost twice as much as a RB swap, but not sure as i've never swapped in LSx in these chassis. 

 

Hope that helps.