Miles Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 (edited) 240Z with MM 240SX rear caliper install. Installed 2009. No problems unti the last year. While chasing a problem with an over heating 240SX caliper install on my 240Z I noticed that there was a lot of lateral slop in the stub axle. No bearing noise just lateral slop. I also noticed that in turning the axle there was a point at which there was some resistance. I didn't expect this as I had installed new OEM axle shafts, seals and bearings about seven years ago and the car only sees street use. I went ahead and replaced the inner and outer bearings. I torqued the retaining nut to 123 ft/lb as per factory specs when the copper washer is in place. Adding more torque has no effect on the rubbing. The lateral slop is gone, but the on and off dargging/rubbing is still present when the shaft is turned. Makes me think that the flange on the axle shaft is bent. Inspection of the inner side of the flange shows a circular witness mark where the flange is rubbing on the outer face of the hub (bearing carrier). See pictures. Edited December 4, 2013 by Miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I wonder if you could just grind a little off that. A pretty good way to tell if the stub is bent is to mount the brake disc and see how much it wobbles. If it doesn't wobble much you might be able to clearance that and keep rolling? When I did my first disc brake conversion, I found one stub was bent pretty badly with excessive runout of the brake rotor-had to swap it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted December 4, 2013 Author Share Posted December 4, 2013 (edited) I wonder if you could just grind a little off that. A pretty good way to tell if the stub is bent is to mount the brake disc and see how much it wobbles. If it doesn't wobble much you might be able to clearance that and keep rolling? When I did my first disc brake conversion, I found one stub was bent pretty badly with excessive runout of the brake rotor-had to swap it. I'll put the rotor back on and check it with a dial indicator. If the axle flange is bent I'll have to find a good used one as Nissan no longer stocks them. When I replaced the axle shafts in 09 I thought "ok that should last another 40 years. Edited December 4, 2013 by Miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 (edited) Doesn't your problem seem similar to johnc's in Post #30 here? - http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/113462-rear-wheel-stub-axle-play-help-needed/page-2?do=findComment&comment=1086574 Edited December 4, 2013 by NewZed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted December 4, 2013 Author Share Posted December 4, 2013 NewZed I saw John's post. I wonder if placing a 0.5 mm shimm between the outer bearing and where it seats on the shaft would work? I may just stop screwing with this and replace the strut. Not looking forward to that since springs, shocks, bushings have all been installed. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Check the flange to make sure its not bent. Also check the fusion weld between the flnge and the shaft for pitting and cracking. The flanges are known to separate from the stub axle flange with hard track and/or auocross use. The metal shield on the inside of the flange may also be bent (best case scenario). Youy can push push out the wheel studs and remove that shield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted December 4, 2013 Author Share Posted December 4, 2013 John Here is a video of a stub axle failing while racing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUKfHfPub1A Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Wow. That was a good looking vid......right up to the failure. jt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted December 5, 2013 Author Share Posted December 5, 2013 Does it take much to bend the flange? I recall about two years ago while making a right turn the right rear wheel caught on a curb lifting the car up a few inches and then dropping. The outer edge of the wheel had some road rash, but there were no problems until recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I managed to do something similar, and belive I might have a slightly bend flange too...do you get a moderate to high-speed wobble going on that feels like a tire out of balance, no matter how many times you balance the tires and check the wheels for runout? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted December 5, 2013 Author Share Posted December 5, 2013 No wobble or bearing noise. The bearings were just loose if I pushed and pulled on the wheel. The new bearings took care of the looseness. My dial indicator just arrived so I can now accurately measure the flange to see if it is bent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I hit the wheel HARD, enough to bounce the car up in the air...was doing about 50MPH and drove over some diesel fuel on the highway. The roadway stank of diesel, in a construction zone, and there were three other cars who skidded off at the same time. One woman had rolled a brand new SUV and broke her arm; we pulled her out of the sunroof. Bent the crap out of the wheel, but the flange and brake rotor spun OK, so I never really measured it. Now I think I ought to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted December 5, 2013 Author Share Posted December 5, 2013 (edited) Eric Neyerlin at Zparts.com has a write up on stub axle failures. It is in the Tech Articals section. See pictures : http://www.zparts.com/zptech/articles/stub_axle/P1010169rw512s.jpg http://www.zparts.com/zptech/articles/stub_axle/DCP_1894rw2_750s.jpg In 2005 I had the the threaded end of a stub axle brake off pulling away from a stop sign at slow speed. It sounded like a loud snap/bang. I actually drove it to a Nissan dealer and bought a newstub axle the next day with the retaining nut flopping around in the axle flange. Not recommended as the axle can walk out of the bearing housing. Edited December 5, 2013 by Miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Yup, saw Wilkins video earlier. If you autocross or race your car, then the stub axle is an inspection item and will need to be replaced on a schedule or at the first sign of pitting or cracking at the fusion weld. I've broken 2. One at an autocross which wasnt a big deal and one at Buttonwillow which almost became a big deal. A worn brake drum kept the wheel on the car after the flange broke in a 70mph corner. If you're running rear disks the wheel will stay in place but the wheel and tire will lock up, which is what happened to Wilkins. With drum brakes the wheel generally leaves the car. As you can see, there's no warning when the failure occurs and it always happens in a corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris.Is.Awesome Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 This is scary. I've got a set of 5-lug converted 280z stubs having their threads fixed. Might want to look them over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 My flange was very bent and it gave no "feel". Stopped fine with no pulsing with drums but was simply out of the question with discs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 With everything installed and torqued, there is about 0.003 linear movement inward when pushing and pulling on the hub. No improvement with more torque. Checked length of the "B" spacer at 52.53mm - 52.54 which is in spec. Checked the hub runout at less than 0.001. So my hub is not bent. No lateral movement. The axle flange no longer drags/rubs on the lip of the hub/bearing carrier. The axle spins free with the only drag comming from the inner grease seal. If I remove the inner flange the grease seal resistance goes to zero. I compared lateral movement of the inner races of the old and new bearings. There is the same amount of lateral play in both new and old bearings. I presume that this play is reduced when everything is in place and torqued down. ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 What's the worst thing that would happen if you put it back together and drive it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 What's the worst thing that would happen if you put it back together and drive it? I just don't want to drive it and then go through the hassle of pulling the wheels off, jacking it up etc. etc. I prefer to install the inner bearing first so it acts as a guide when driving the axle and outer bearing into the hub. I recall that once before I did that and the inner bearing moved off of its' seat which would prevent the spacer tube from interfacing with the inner bearing race resulting in some axial slop. I'll pull the grease seal and tap the inner bearing to seat it and then recheck for end play. If all is good I'll road test it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 It sounds, from your measurements, like everything is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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