Looking for feedback on LS 240z swap

[FrankieD]

I am thinking of going the LS swap and have some questions. I would go with an automatic for2 reasons. One...I'm tired of shifting and two It seems like the auto would be gentler on the driveline.

 

Now comes the real question. Will the R200 (3:54) rear end and stock half shafts hold up with am LS ?

 

I do not intend to race the car. It will be a Sunday driver. I'm told the this engine weighs less than the stock Z and so the handling should stay the same . My concern is broken half shafts and other problems.

 

Please let me know whatever you think.

 

Thanks in advance.

[280zjake]

halfshafts should live with a little common sense. if u ever do decide to go drag racing theyre done. Upgraded axle shafts are available. This is by far IMO the best money I have ever spent on a datsun. Good luck and I promise youll have no regrets.

[ktm]

I ran half-shafts on my old 410 wheel torque L28ET for 3 years and now on my LS1 for 2 years without issue.  Use your tires as a safety valve.  I have 245/50 340 treadware tires.  I could spin them in 1st and 2nd, with a nice little partial slip in 3rd at times.  If you go with stickier tires then you will need to be concerned about the half-shafts; if you drive smart, have fun and understand the limitation of your drive train you'll be fine.

 

In the end I upgraded to CVs because I got tired of spinning my tires constantly.  Yes, its fun when you want to do it......no, its not fun (and can be ******* scary) when they break loose when you are not actively trying.

[RebekahsZ]

You should be fine, but buy a couple of spares to put on the shelf, then if you break one it is just an hour to replace it. If you are just cruising, why would they break? I bet you'd be fine with even a R180.

[PLATA]

My 2 centavos >>> do not cheapen the build/conversion , you will pay later 

[mattd428]

What he said^. Do the swap well worth it in every aspect.

[heavy85]

Save the money, you dont need it. I raced mine for several year with stock half shafts and even on slicks (road course type stuff). This was with 3.7 and 6 speed so 3.54 and auto should be even gentler on the driveline. Only reason I switched to cv is the half shaft bolts would loosen up after a day on track. Always carried a spare half shaft but never needed one.

[socorob]

Did the 240 have an r200?

[RebekahsZ]

I respectfully disagree with the thinking that you have to do everything to the max on the first try. It is enough work in and of itself just to get the engine and tranny in and driving. Lots of guys fail to even finish that, so make that your primary objective. The diff and even just the axles are individual items that can come later. When I did my swap I started with a R180 with stock u-joint axles and 240z stubs. Then upgraded to Wolf Creek CV axles. Then went to R200 CLSD, then to 280z stubs. Then to Z31T axles, then to billet stubs. Other than time, the only thing I really spent twice on was companion flanges due to a change from 27-spline to 39-spline. All unwanted parts I was able to sell within the forum at minimal loses to reflect that the parts were lightly used. Along the way, I never broke anything. As stated above, the 14mm nuts on stock axles should be checked and tightened regularly (gring down a 14mm box end wrench just for the task and keep it handy).. Even using locktite, mine backed off after every night at the track on slicks/drag radials. But that also happened with a 150hp L24! So far, after 3(?) years of drag racing and autocrossing the car, I have only broken 3 driveshafts, only once was a total failure of the a cheap, cast steel slip yoke. I spotted twisting of a second slip yoke on visual inspection and cracking of welds on a small 2" driveshaft tube that has now been increased to 3". And that may have only been cracks in the paint. Fortunately, the total d/s failure happened at the line and the car never moved, so there was zero carnage. The cheap slip yoke was $35; a forged slip yoke is about $100, and a hardened billet Strange slip yoke is about $225. I recommend the forged yoke made by TCI for value since you are going A/T. I never used my forged yoke, but I have one in a spare driveshaft for the day that (if) I break the billet yoke. If I break that, then I go to $240 Mark Williams Chrome Moley version and run the forged unit while awaiting parts.

[Zfan1]

Did the 240 have an r200?

No, they had R180's in them.  I destroyed an R200 and several half shafts with a 300rwhp 240Z even with an automatic 700R4.  I would step it up, but that is just me.  A half shaft can also do a lot of damage when snapped, brake lines, lower arms, etc..

[FrankieD]

So what I'm getting is that the LSx/auto trans swap should work with the R200 and stock half shafts. Heavier/stronger half shafts are availabl and may be needed later if there are problems. How I drive it will be a big factor.

 

Any comments on how the car "feels" aside from the extra power (always good) but does it still feel like a "Z" ?

 

My budget would be around 10K.

 

Does it seem possible ?

[RebekahsZ]

I don't know what you mean by "feel" like a Z.  If you do the motor/trans swap and do that alone, your budget is good.  If you do a bunch of add on work, ie: brakes, suspension, paint and body; I think that budget is low.  For example, I have a buddy with a stock, pristine 78 280z.  If he does the swap only, he will have a nice LS Z for about $10,000 and about a month's work.  If he decides he wants it to handle like something other than a stock Z, he needs to budget $5,000 to $10,000 more.  The guys who start with a trashed, rusty, worn out POS will spend the $20,000 all at once to have anything nice and clean and it will take about a year to do.

 

As to the "feel" of the car.  It will look the same and handle corners the same. If you have a stock suspension, wheels and tires, you will still have a car that drives kind of like a boat.  It will be great for straight line and the front will lift quite a bit and the rear will squat quite a bit on take off.  It will feel like a regular Z, but with more power.  It will not handle any worse because of the V8.  You will have enough power to get yourself into trouble if you get all crazy with the go pedal.  The exhaust note will be lower and the car will smell less like fumes than the Z-smell that we all know very well.

[FrankieD]

Thanks for the quick reply.

 

I should have given some more background. I've owned my 71 "Z" since I was new...42 years. In that time the suspension has been completely redone. Not as drastic as some here  with Tokico springs and shocks , all bushings replaced with nylon and rear sway bar/heavier front sway bar.

 

It is not a track car but handles really well for the street.

 

I recently restored the body/interior. I tried to post photos but for some reason they don't show up.

 

I will try again.

 

You have answered one of my concerns. Back in the 70's I had a friend who put a 327 chevy into a BMW 3.0. At the time a really cool car. It was really fast but driving it was not at all a BMW experience. When you got on it the car felt like it was coming apart. Part of that probably was the weight of the engine.

 

Anyway the shop I'm working with is very experienced with LS engine swaps...just not into a "Z". One he did was an AMC Pacer. That is a real sleeper. The car is cherry & looks stock (except for the wheels/tires).

 

The problem with photos is they are more than 256 MB.

 

If you know a way to get around that let me know.

 

Thanks again.

[RebekahsZ]

When I do photos, I email them from my cell phone to my email, then I open some microsoft program that lets me save them.  Before the email goes from my phone, it asks me what size I want to send.  I usually chose "medium."  It seems to work fine.  Then, I use the browse function on hybridz to look at my photos in my desktop and I double click attach them into the message.  Probably not the most efficient way, but it is the best way I know.

 

The LS weighs roughly the same as your L24.  We don't have to change the spring rate or shocks just because of the V8.  My weight distrubution is 49% F/ 51% R.   Sounds like your car will be a great recipient.  Only thing to consider is running a 50 or 60-series tire and if you haven't changed your steering rack bushings and installed a hard plastic steering coupler, those really make a Z drive 100% better.

 

You are gonna like it, and $10,000 should be just about right.  One other thing:  try to get your engine and trans together as a complete pull-out.  Lately, all my friends who have pieced-together their powertrain have had problems.  Spend more up-front to get low mileage and as compete a system as possible and you will save time and money in the end.  There is no down-side to the available OEM drive-by-wire systems.  The biggest hassle for you will be chosing a fuel tank.  I had my 72 tank re-worked for fuel injection with an internal sump.  Lots of guys use a camaro tank.  If I could go back in time, I would use a cheap aluminum aftermarket cell/tank with an internal sump.  Once and done.  Now, get to work and post us up some in-progress photos!

[ktm]

I should have given some more background. I've owned my 71 "Z" since I was new...42 years. In that time the suspension has been completely redone. Not as drastic as some here  with Tokico springs and shocks , all bushings replaced with nylon and rear sway bar/heavier front sway bar.

 

It is not a track car but handles really well for the street.

 

Sounds like my suspension setup.  I have an LS1 with a 4L60E in my 1972 240z.  My suspension is Tokico HP shocks with 280z springs.  If you are running the 240z springs, I'd ditch them if possible.  I had them for 5 years and they were coil bound the entire time.  Switching to the 280z springs made an amazing change in the ride quality on our So Cal roads (I live in Diamond Bar).  I also have an Suspension Techniques front and rear sway bar.  My bushings were all swapped out for poly bushings when I bought the car, and the steering rack coupler is poly as well.  

 

The car rides firm but not overly harsh (once I got rid of the 240z springs).  As Keith stated, 50 or 60 series tires really help with the ride quality as well.  Stick with 15 or 16 inch wheels and give yourself some sidewall for comfort.

 

I disagree with Keith about the fuel tank though.  If you are not tracking the car, you do not need to do much to the tank save for increasing the feed line diameter.  Just keep at least 1/4-tank of gas in the car at all times.  I had my return and feed lines extended to close to the drain plug and increased in size to 3/8-in. (stainless as well).  You do not need to do this, but increasing the diameter will help with any cavitation/starvation issues.  Saying that, if I had to do it all over again (and I may) I would add an internal baffle/sump to my tank for F/I.

 

Where in So Cal are you located?

[FrankieD]

This is really helping. Thanks guys.

 

All my suspension parts have been done with the kits from Motorsport. After all I've owned this car for 42 years...WOW even I can't believe it.

 

I also replaced the driveline with a 78 280 5 speed & R200.

 

My tires are 225/45 17.

 

I wasn't aware of all the things I need to know to do this. The shop I'll use is probably is aware as he does many swaps & builds engines.

 

My concern is that he hasn't done any Z cars. It seems there are details such as different oil pans etc. I didn't really think much about the fuel tank either.

 

The car will  not be raced. More a Sunday driver. It's really looking good now & always get attention. I just want the swap for those few times when I want

 

to see "that look" on the Porsche or corvette drivers face. LOL.

 

I wish I could figure out how to shrink my photos. I will figure it out....give me time.

 

As to my location, I live in Camarillo in Venture county. I'd love to see your car & take a ride in it. If you ever come this way let me know.

 

Camarillo is about halfway between L.A. & Santa Barbara. Right on the 101 Fway.

 

Thanks again.

[texis30O]

I currently have almost 20k into my build...... and it is not even running...... I still need tires and wheels...... not counting the car, interior, or any other misc items I have purchased....... I thought I could have a beast at 18k...... yeah not a chance,  the car still needs paint after all of this is said and done..... Now you don't have to go balls out and put a blower on a LS3, if I had stopped at a simple swap I could be up and running by now......

[alainburon]

I currently have almost 20k into my build...... and it is not even running...... I still need tires and wheels...... not counting the car, interior, or any other misc items I have purchased....... I thought I could have a beast at 18k...... yeah not a chance,  the car still needs paint after all of this is said and done..... Now you don't have to go balls out and put a blower on a LS3, if I had stopped at a simple swap I could be up and running by now......

I hear you sir, If I was to tell you how much I have into my build you would not believe me and all I have to look at is a garage full of parts since my car is still at the body shop. My budget was blown 2 months into the build and I'm not done yet.  .

[FrankieD]

My budget of $10,000.00 came from a quote from "Bones fabrication...hot rods & muscle cars" a local shop. They have an excellent reputation and complete facilities.

 

As for the rest of the car the body/interior and suspension have all been done. I'm in a little over $15k for that.

[ktm]

Frankie, the car looks fantastic.  You have to take everyone's quotes for swap prices with a grain of salt.  Everyone does things differently.  My swap cost me around $8,000 and that includes the price of the engine and transmission.  I did all of the work myself, but my car was previously setup for fuel injection from my earlier turbo build.  If I had to include the cost of setting up the car for fuel injection, I would be at $9,000 to $10,000.

 

FYI, I hope the shop is not manufacturing their own mounts.  You can pick up JCI mounts, which includes the driveshaft, for $600.  Buy the ceramic coated headers from JTR for $500 and you are set.  Everything else the shop will need to build.