Bob_H Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Because that's what everyone says! (follows lamb off cliff...) In otherwords, no reason. The only reason people should not consider the P-90A is the hard time getting good lifters as new ones are no longer available. The P-90A's are more than capable of being used in a performance application and with a bigger than stock cam as I used mine for 15k miles with no issues at all. It is now happily motoring to more miles in another car. The lifters can be cleaned and re-used,(assuming they aren't worn too much) check the archives/search function on how to clean the hyd. lifters. -Bob PS - to answer the original question posed by this thread - the main weak link in a 500hp Z is the driver. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Good point, if this is a road car and your quadrupling horsepower, frankly thats just stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_H Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 i need 500hp Noone needs 500 hp. I'll fish up a great post by scottie about driving a 500 hp, 10 second car on the street. Actually, it was in a thread that you started now that I think about it...now I peaked my own curiousity. Lemme go find that link. -Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_H Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 comes in to douse water on discussion I found it. I admit ahead of time that I am quoting him partialy, and to my favor: to drive a 10-sec Z car on the street. Think a 12-sec Z car is fast? Try one that can do 0-60 in 2.34 and 0-100 in 6.15. Sounds cool? NO! Its downright scary and if you do not respect it, YOU WILL KILL YOURSELF!!!. I don't care how many fast cars you have driven, you are having a death-wish..... That discussion can be found here: prior 500 hp discussion We established before this was going to be primarily a street car. 500 hp in a 240Z is stupid for a street car. Take notice I am not saying you are stupid, but the idea of a street 240z with 500hp is stupid. (attacking idea, not person..) I'm not budging from that one. So there are still some unanswered questions. First, what are you really building this for. Again, as we all stated before, that makes a large difference in what is recommended. A 500hp road race,(track), car will require different mods than a 500hp drag race car. The hard launches a 500 hp 240Z see's will break things that will barely be stressed in a road race car. I am not going to entertain discussions on street cars and what will break with 500 hp. Here's my answer to that. Nothing will break. Why? Because you should never push and use anywhere close to your 500 hp,(assuming your car has 500 hp), on the street. Again, realize "you" is a generic term. I am speaking to everyone. You gotta define more clearly as you skipped out on the last discussion before we could more clearly identify how to get your "must-have 500 hp". -Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 First of all James is right, properly prepped, the stock rods will live to 600 hp. Run forged pistons, ARP fasteners, get the head worked over by a professional, run a nice sized turbo, get good engine management, and you should be there. As for Scottie's comment, well I got a few things to say. First of all, there is a device called an electronic boost controller that allows you to manipulate your boost. Use it, and your 10 second car suddenly becomes more manageable on the street. Just don't drive it in the rain. Second, race gas at 4.50 a gallon isn't cheap, and most hyper fast turbo nissans run race fuel, so run pump gas and refer to my first comment. Finally if you want to build something that makes alot of power like you are talking about, get ready to spend some money. There are no cheap ways to do it. Its a lot of fun when you finish, but a pain in the butt when you are working on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_H Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Hey, lets keep my quoting in context! I did quote Scottie to my advantage, but I also was clear later on with: Here's my answer to that. Nothing will break. Why? Because you should never push and use anywhere close to your 500 hp,(assuming your car has 500 hp), on the street. So we,(Scottie, me and you among others), are all in agreement. -Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Stupid for a street car ? what do you mean you think it should be a trailer only vehicle ? The maximum power is for the track and the 10's. What ive learned from HybridZ lately is that it doesnt really take 500hp to run10's I mean there are 353hp cars going flat 11's so maybe 400hp is a better mark. I only say 500hp to overestimate and figure out what exactly is needed to build a SOLID L28et. And just becuase the engine will make 500hp or 400 for that matter doesnt mean that you have run max boost while going to the corner store. So maybe that should be the question should be what do i need to make a rock solid L28et that will handle the kind of power needed to run mid 10's, again (no n20). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 500 hp in a 240Z is stupid for a street car. Take notice I am not saying you are stupid, but the idea of a street 240z with 500hp is stupid. (attacking idea, not person..) Blaming guns for Columbine is like blaming forks for Rosie O'Donnel being fat. A 500 HP car is incapabile of doing harm in and of itself. Or are you a Hillary fan and believe people can't be trusted to use something responsiblly? Don't know about stupid. Now I could see using a phrase such as "overkill", "unusable", "waste of money", "misguided effort", "not streetable", "a total pig to drive in traffic", "poorly engineered and executed project because you put alot of power into a car that will never be able to use it"... Nothing wrong with building something you will never be able to use. Artist do it all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zline Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 the preparations to make that 500 hp z car streetable would cost almost as much as building it full adjust suspension arms Z31 stub/cv conversion 4 piston brakes all four corners wheels -- 16x10 at least R3SO3 tires to even get close to gripping aftermarket LSD 280ZX 3.90 5 speed w. treated gears modified driveshaft coilovers brake master/slave/proportioning valve have you even been in a Z car with more than 200 hp? I have...its ******* scary...320hp N/A hp -- with a flat hp / tq band...lets just say you need to have a uhaul to carry the balls it takes to drive a car like that... why not build a motor with 500 hp potential but drive it at something like a 370 hp setting? It'll be faster than 99% of the cars on the road save a 1000hp pro stock v8 even then..it'd only be a second or two slower...are you really prepared to handle that kind of speed? When building a car you shouldnt ask -- What gives me most power? you should ask... If I want X power, am i prepared to handle it? Do I have enough money to handle EVERY aspect of doing it right? If so -- am i comfortable with that kind of horsepower and driving a 0-60 car in 2 seconds EVERY DAY in and out of traffic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Yes exactly a motor with 500 hp potential doesnt have to be driven @ 500hp tune. It can be detuned some for the street i.e. electronic boost controller. But can still be tuned back or maybe just boosted to run 10's at the track ! get it !? or is that not possible ? And again 400hp is probly more or less what this engine will need to produce. I just kinda like to overbuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zline Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Originally posted by LT_ZT:Yes exactly a motor with 500 hp potential doesnt have to be driven @ 500hp tune. It can be detuned some for the street i.e. electronic boost controller. But can still be tuned back or maybe just boosted to run 10's at the track ! get it !? or is that not possible ? And again 400hp is probly more or less what this engine will need to produce. I just kinda like to overbuild. or over pay? build what you'll use bro...trust me money disappears quick when you build z cars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_H Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Don't know about stupid. Now I could see using a phrase such as.... My dog-eared american heritage dictionary defines stupid as:adj:Showing a lack or sense of intelligence. A 500 hp car on the street shows a lack of sense or intelligence. Yes the driver is what uses that 500hp....however I still stand my ground. A 500 HP car is incapabile of doing harm in and of itself. Or are you a Hillary fan and believe people can't be trusted to use something responsiblly? No, I am most certainly not a Hillary fan. However, just as there is no reason for an assualt weapon, there is no reason for a 500hp street car. However, if someone wants to build one, they are more than welcome to. Doesn't mean I have to agree. I think it is stupid. period. that is my opinion and will not change. With respect to LT_ZT's comment about trailer only etc? No, I will say it again, you don't need 500 hp on the street. If some of you guys weren't so quick to pull the trigger in a response, you would see I agree with Lockjaw and others about turning down the boost for the street, etc.. But I will gladly be the martar to get this topic more attention. Ok, back on topic... zline, he wants to build a drag car, not a handling car. So that might change a few things in your budget. However, you are dead on with this comment: the preparations to make that 500 hp z car streetable would cost almost as much as building it Of course if we take out streetable and make it "track ready for 500 hp" it still works. LT_ZT, have you outlined your budget yet? what are we dealing with? $1000, $3000, $5000, $10,000? And I am talking just suspension/chassis prep. The engine is a whole different topic previously covered. My suggestion? Build a mild motor, say 350hp. Take it to the track and find the weak links,(which you should have a good idea of from here). Then, as you build up the power, upgrade the weak links, which are commonly known to be the u-joints and stub axles. Generally speaking folks are not twisting driveshafts and destroying diff's. The transmission will survive if you don't powershift. If you insist on powershifting, expect to toast the syncro's on a regular basis. An Automatic such as James has is appropriate as you get upwards of 500 hp. So I would check to ensure the current u-joints and stub axles are in good shape. Assuming they are, build your turbo motor to a mild state of tune, enjoy it while tuning at the track, then upgrade the other areas. 350hp will net low 12's in the 240, possibly lower. Make sure your brakes are up to snuff, good quality pads in the front, I suggest Carbotech rear shoes if you don't want to switch to a disc setup, and a good thorough bleed of the system. Good tires, good brakes, good u-joints and axles, and have at it! Then start the downward spiral of upgrading power. -Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zline Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Bob -- You know how and where I drive =) I'm sayin even for straight line driving you'll need a suspension that wont bottom out, wheel & tire combo that will grip..properly adjustable suspension arms to dial in camber/toe proper brakes to stop the vehicle...not to mention a custom rollcage because you'll be going so fast.... LT_ZT my word of advice to you is this: Buy a Z first...learn to drive it stock...then put an L31ET engine into it...it'll make 420hp/470ftlbs tq at LEAST with correct modifications. oh yeah...and bob..crossflow is for sissys!!! =P enjoy your rb engine =) [Edited for profanity by Drax240z] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zline Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 oh yeah...and a word of advice to you LT_ZT, make sure you got a pocket deep enough to finish the task you say you want to undertake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Well here is what ive decided to do. The 82 donor L28et engine is in descent shape. So i am going to build a big hybrid t3/to4e and put SDS and injecotrs on it (of coourse upgrade tank/pump) and see where this gets me. Ive read similar set ups that have reached low 11's. And like bob said, I will "test" all the links with that setup and see what needs to be upgraded. I only need to turn 10 once, becuase im sure they will kick me off the track with IRS. Anyway thanx for info ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zline Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 ill build you a L31ET for the price of parts + 1000 for labor if youre located in southern california and you dont need an upgraded tank just a pump & injectors what setup do you plan on using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Originally posted by LT_ZT:Stupid for a street car ? what do you mean you think it should be a trailer only vehicle ? The maximum power is for the track and the 10's. What ive learned from HybridZ lately is that it doesnt really take 500hp to run10's I mean there are 353hp cars going flat 11's so maybe 400hp is a better mark. 500 HP will get a well setup 3000 pound car into the high 10s. Stupid means, for the driver, it doesn't neccessarily mean trailer only. I made nearly 500 HP in my 3450 pound car, and realistically it was "stupid" power, that car is so fast it will get away from a driver not used to such power levels. In other words, take baby steps of 50 HP at a time or so, if your moving from 130ish HP 240Z to 500 HP, thats not a baby step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest empracing Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 um 500hp stupid for the street? a 100hp car can still crash you dont have to holeshot everyone at the lights and run numbers up the highway. theres tons of cars running potential 500hp detuned mostly for fuel econimy even the first car to put 500hp to the wheels at the summernats used to run around the roads here he only crashed the 1000+rwhp set up at a highspeed run at the track. its not the hp that matters its how you use it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIE T Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Hmmm... I'm building a L28ET for my 240Z. I've got most of the parts to build a L30ET. All I need are a set of NICE forged pistons. I expect to make, ohhhh... about 350-400+ rwhp. I've had 500+rwhp STREET cars. One was a mostly drag type '70 Olds 442, with a completely built engine, trans and rear. That was when I was 18. I couldn't afford to put a cage in it. I could get maybe 3 runs per year. The track nazi's kicked me out for no cage and high 10sec ET's. It didn't bother me, since I knew it it needed a cage. It was after all, for my own good. The other was a '88 Mustang Coupe(then I put this stuff in a convertible). Supercharged, built engine, trans, rear, the works. It had full Saleen suspension. Huge road hugging wheels and tires. Great brakes, roll bar, etc... That car was the most drivable car I have EVER owned. It drove better than my 340RWHP '94 Z28 does. I put 1000's of miles on it. My wife(girlfriend at the time) went to collage a few hours away from me, And I would drive there every weekend. Too much power? Maybe. Once, I was driving on the interstate from my buddy's house(on I64 east). Some cool guys pulls up next to me in a GT mustang with the required weld wheels and flowmaster exhuast(that must have been a dealer installed items , it seems like every mustang in town had that stuff). He lunges afew times to egg me to race him. I ablige him by down shifting to 3rd gear at a 60MPH roll. We hit it, I pull from him fast, boost climbs, rear tires start to draw smoke off of them(this is now in excess of 65mph). I ease out of it, as I'm now driving the rear tire off of the shoulder. I pull 4th gear hard, more tire smoke. Player in the GT is a good 5 cars behind me. He never attempts to pass me again, even after I slow way down to under the speed limit. The moral of this story, (other than the fact that my car is completely bad ass ) is 60mph display of tire smoke sounds cool, but is very dangerous(my brother crashed the same car a few months later on the interstate, doing the same thing). My mustang was the most controlable car I've ever driven. Everything was well thought out and planned to work together. Even under severe tire spin, I could place the car anywhere I wanted to, by throttle pressure, clutch, and steering. My Zcar will be just like the Mustang. Total control. An extension of myself. My Z28 is a terrible car IMO. I don't like the way it feels, steers, etc... The brakes are ok. The only time it feels like you can control the tire spin, is when the DR's are mounted. Very unlike my Mustang which had way more HP. It may not be the Z28's fault, I've never given it the suspension, etc... it needs. The dang headers hang too low. I just mention this stuff since I was talking to my wife and brother about it this evening. Deep inside, I do miss the 500+hp I had on tap, It made merging into traffic a breeze . I think the 240Z/L30ET will fullfil my desires once again. Do know, I have a roll cage, huge brakes, huge wheels and tires(soft compound A032R's), adjustable suspension, one piece racing shell seat(driver only), 5 point harness, etc... My car will be safe, but very expensive to duplicate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Originally posted by empracing:um 500hp stupid for the street? a 100hp car can still crash its not the hp that matters its how you use it Exactly, and a person can much easier use 100 HP than 500. An unexperienced 'end user' with a 500 HP car, trying to use it, is much more likely going to make a mistake. If its a drag car then it doesn't matter so much, if its a road car, then it becomes a problem very fast. If you TRULY want to learn to drive fast, learn momentum with a slow car. It is HARD to avoid I know, because I did a heads/cam setup on my own car (Camaro), and it was too fast for the amount of grip I had, and my own experience level, it was a mistake. A nearly stock 240Z was running very good lap times only a few seconds off heavily modified Camaros and Stangs, not many people were as much as 10 seconds a lap faster, with MUCH faster cars. Sears Point however is more of a handling track than a speed track. What is nice about having "500HP" is being able to throw your car into second car on the freeway and take off like a bat outta you know where, every once in awhile you can have fun with it, but you have to be carefull with its use and using it will be somewhat rare. You can have "more fun" in a slower car, if you like to shift the gears like I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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