Cryogenics, not just for Disney anymore...

[Guest Anonymous]

I've read and heard about using Cryogenics to take stress out of metal parts and reduce breakage, through some sort of molecular alignment or something that undergoes a change under the drastic cold temps (I donno, real cool, -300 + deg f.). Has anyone tried, or thought about using a 280z stub axle (or whatever the one is with the greater number of splines) treated cyrogenically to try and reduce breakage at the splines? The stuff is supposed to work really well, a guy I was reading with a pretty powerful volvo that he had hopped up was breaking rear ends right and left until he had the process done on one of them, he hasn't broken it since. Any thoughts or conversation on the process?

 

Regards,

 

Lone

[Tim240z]

Lone,

I may be wrong, but I believe that similar results can be attained by heat treating (very hot then letting cool at a specific rate, which lets the molecules align themselves to optimum matrix).

Is that not why all the sideshafts that NASCAR and others use are heat treated?

Dunno fa shur.

Tim

[Peternell]

A local Cryogenics business caught my eye. (spin off of tech. from the Hanford Nuclear Reservation aka "Lazy H Ranch")

 

I talked with the owner about the process. Basically the molecules are still moving in all metals, but this process slows them down and aligns then for greater strength. Process is to lower the temp to -300F or so and hold it there for 24 hours and slowly over a 2-3 day period bring the temp back up.

 

The local circle burners freeze most every part of the short block. Works great one golf clubs I'm told, specifically the driver (got that from a golfer who had his shaft frozen (OUCH!)

 

Price is based upon size of the part, not weight. Only so much can fit in the vat. Connecting rods are about $30 a set-they are the items I'm considering for this process.

 

Some consider it smoke and mirrors while some swear by it. I'm interested to read what others have to say.

[aviatorx]

There is a difference in processes, obviously.....heat treating 'relaxes' the metal, causing built in stresses made during manufacturing or machining to be less of a factor. Cyogenic treatment 'densifies' the metal and produces stress relief as well as hardened wear surfaces in the treated part. Cryogenic treated parts tend to be those that have large wear surfaces (cylinder bores benefit greatly) and heat treated parts tend to be those that may lend themselves to brittle failures......

 

Money is usually the driving factor in these decisions!

[johnc]

When I broke both rear stub axles at the flange within a month I spent some time researching cryo treatment. It was touted to me (by a cryo treater) as the solution to my problem.

 

My research came down to this:

 

1. As of June 2000, there were no published scientific tests that said cryo treatment helped with fatigue resistance. In fact, there was only one test published at that time (by Bethlehem Steel) and the results were inconclusive.

 

2. There are published scientific tests that show cryo treatment does help significantly with abraision resistance. Cryo treated brake rotors are a good example of this effectiveness.

 

3. There is lots of anecdotal evidence (from users and cryo treatment businesses) supporting the benefits of cryo treatment for reducing fatigue failure.

 

4. There is lots of anecdotal evidence (from users and traditional heat treaters) refuting the benefits of cryo treatment for reducing fatigue failure.

 

5. Don Potter swears by cryo treatment for his $1,000 pair of matched stub axles and companion flanges.

 

6. The Nismo competition stub axles were stress relieved (heat treated), shot peened, and polished.

 

In my case, I bought two brand new 27 spline stub axles from Nissan and installed them as is. The previous pair lasted 7 years.

 

[ November 05, 2001: Message edited by: johnc ]

[BLKMGK]

Hrm, VERY interesting reading guys. I'm considering this for a set of 280 stubs myself. This breakage thing stinks! Now I don't know what to do but if it were only $30 I'd certainly do it. Hrm, heat AND freeze maybe?

[Guest Anonymous]

Yeah, I was wondering the same myself...Think heat treating something then cryo treating it would cancel one another out?

[fl327]

ill volunteer for the test, someone freeze me up some r200 half shafts,bottom mount, mustache bar, and a ring and pinion, and i promise to drop the hammer like a madman, then we'll see.

[Guest RXO510]

I have personally used cryogenic treatments for my rotary engine parts. Getting ceramic seals are very costly for rotary engines. Came across a company called One Cryo in Washington. They cryogenically treat many parts for race teams. Well we tried using the stock seals with NOS and also the cryogenically treated seals with NOS. Needless to say the cryo treated seals lasted much longer than the stock seals. Also friends up at NJ who race their rotary powered Starlets at ATCO raceway had better results with cryo treated engine parts boosting at 22 psi. I know they are still sending parts to get treated. One Cryo has a website. I will post it ASAP.

[Guest RXO510]

Here is the company I went with for my cryogenic tempering of my engine parts. Sorry can't get a link on here, but it's Onecryo.com 1 800 300 2796

[Mikelly]

Very interesting...Maybe I'll get my stub axles done...

 

Mike

[Guest RXO510]

Try calling their toll free number. If I remember correctly, they have 3 facilities in different parts of the US. They are very reasonable and they usually have a very quick turnaround. Very good service and reasonably priced. I'm sure they have treated Z parts already.