Stock Car Mafia's '78 280z LS2 Build

[Stock Car Mafia]

Well I ran in to an issue last evening with the high temps up here. The car died on my last night and wouldn't start. It'd crank over but wouldn't fire. After sitting for 15 mins I got it to start after checking everything over.

I'll post up later what i found out.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Stock Car Mafia

[bramagedained]

Heh, I was going to go out and see how my car did in the heat here on Friday, too. 

 

But, after just a short drive to Cub in it I decided that if it's that hot outside I'll just be driving the other car with A/C anyway.

[Stock Car Mafia]

Man, the heat was pretty damn bad.  I kind of daydream about A/C when it is like that.  

 

It's quite funny as one of my motorcycle riding buddies sent me this picture I think yesterday when he was on 694.  I told him I know who you are

 

[Stock Car Mafia]

So I believe the problem I ran in to on Friday was fuel pump related.  The damn thing just quit on me on my way up to St. Cloud.  

 

I believe with my return style fuel system it is pulling a lot of the heat and raising the temp of the gas.  The pump either overheated or became vapor locked.  I had about 3/8 of a tank at the time.  This just make me think I've hurt the life span of the pump and I'd sure hate to go on a long trip and have it fail.  Short term solution is to get a back up pump and bring the proper tools with.  Or just not drive on hot days.  The pump is back to sounding normal again.  It is a TRE Performance TRE-044 pump.

 

Long term solution is to dump the setup I have and go returnless with a Corvette FPR/filter.  I might drop in a in tank fuel pump too to keep the pump from overheating.  The guy who owns Race Coatings in Forest lake said he was running this set up and is pumping over 700 hp to the wheels with no return.

[NewZed]

Seems more like just a sketchy pump.  I don't know see how a small company can make their own pumps and sell them at the low volumes they must be at, for $89.  And there's probably a reason that they're on sale, down from $179.  Looks more like an inexpensive pump that they "made" their own, with some plumbing parts.  I'm a cynic.  Actually, the copy says they've been making their own for 10 years but doesn't say they made this one.

 

http://treperformance.com/i-16517730-universal-external-inline-300-lph-fuel-pump.html

 

An OEM pump for an older BMW 735 or Ford F150 might have the quality and capacity.  Both external, same form.  Bosch brand.

 

The TRE 044 must be their version of the Bosch 044 - https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-61944-Universal-Inline-Fuel/dp/B003WL73OK

Edited July 25, 2016 by NewZed

[RebekahsZ]

My Walbro255 (or is it 225?) and corvette FPR have been trouble free.

Edited July 25, 2016 by RebekahsZ

[Stock Car Mafia]

NewZed, the pump is an exact copy of the Bosch 044.  That is what I spec'ed out and found these guys.  I haven't heard anything bad on the other forums about the pump but against it's a roll of the dice. 

 

I however need to do my own investigating.  I haven't pulled the pre and post filters to looks for gunk or shit that might have reduced the fuel pressure.  Still part of me feels it was the pump acting up with how hot it was.  This is not something I want to worry about while driving.  If I add more power down the road I'll be changing this.  

 

Seems more like just a sketchy pump.  I don't know see how a small company can make their own pumps and sell them at the low volumes they must be at, for $89.  And there's probably a reason that they're on sale, down from $179.  Looks more like an inexpensive pump that they "made" their own, with some plumbing parts.  I'm a cynic.  Actually, the copy says they've been making their own for 10 years but doesn't say they made this one.

 

http://treperformance.com/i-16517730-universal-external-inline-300-lph-fuel-pump.html

 

An OEM pump for an older BMW 735 or Ford F150 might have the quality and capacity.  Both external, same form.  Bosch brand.

 

The TRE 044 must be their version of the Bosch 044 - https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-61944-Universal-Inline-Fuel/dp/B003WL73OK

[Stock Car Mafia]

This has been a bulletproof setup for most N/A builds.  I don't mind running in to unknown problems while paving a new path.  It's a part of the project car tug of war.  

 

 

My Walbro255 (or is it 225?) and corvette FPR have been trouble free.

[bramagedained]

Getting spotted is funny.  I took 61 down to Wabasha then 60 across to 52 and home, it was a nice 4 hour cruise.  Mostly trouble free aside from the header bolts getting loose enough to leak on the driver's side.  I had never checked them after putting the headers on.

 

Maybe the pump is just bad.  I know a lot of people who have used the actual 044s for years without problems.

 

I doubt you move enough fuel with it to have it heat up the fuel significantly.  My last car had a really big pump(Magnafuel 4303) and two walbro 255s and never had an issue with that.

[wigenOut-S30]

Wow man what a great build!! Went through it all!  great job dude!!  watching your youtube videos now heh.. 

[Stock Car Mafia]

Thats a nice cruise! We just went down 60 to Wabasha a few weekends ago with the car. Thats where I learned i needed the resr sway bar. I think we were on highway 11 near Millsville as well.

 

I will have to say I am pretty confident the pump just got too hot. It is acting normal now and sounds just like it did when i got it. Fuel pressure is holding steady where i had it set before.

 

My IAT's under the hood were running 160 deg. On a 85 deg. day when my air filter was under the hood. I cant imagine what they were that day. What is the vapor/evap. point of 91 octane?

[Stock Car Mafia]

Thanks man, I appreciate it! Your car is beautiful and one of my favorites. Don't ever sell that thing!

 

Wow man what a great build!! Went through it all! great job dude!! watching your youtube videos now heh..

[RebekahsZ]

I miss your daily posts. Stock Car Mafia and coffee is how I start each day. Get back to work!

[BLOZ UP]

I've had plenty of fuel vapor lock issues with my VG33 swap. Was using an Aeromotive A750 that would lose pressure on a warm day, and then switched to a Fuelab Prodigy which worked better but not on hot days. Both just flowed too much, heating up the fuel in my return system. I have a Bosch 044 now, and so far no issues but I drove to the Z meeting last weekend and on the trip home the pump started making weird noises and to me that means it's got vapor pockets right at the inlet. Fuel pressure was holding fine though, but much hotter and I'd have to let it sit for a bit to cool off or risk pressure loss at speed.

 

Hot starts are also really hard, I believe it has to purge vapor out before getting fuel. I tried adding a check valve (didn't have one) and it didn't do much.

 

Tempted to get a fuel cooler with an electric fan (what could possibly go wrong) just in front of the fuel tank under the car.

Edited July 31, 2016 by BLOZ UP

[NewZed]

I've had plenty of fuel vapor lock issues with my VG33 swap.

Have you studied the fuel systems of the cars the VG33 came in?  Seems like the "hot start" problems with the L28 were mostly from the design of the engine, with injectors next to exhaust manifold.  The L6 engine is a carb design retrofitted with fuel injection.  

 

The VG33 doesn't normally have hot-start issues in the cars it's used in, does it?  It's an EFI design from the beginning. 

[Stock Car Mafia]

Ha!  I would love to bore you guys with my landscaping duties but I don't know how relevant that is to the topic at hand.  I've been spending a lot of time with the girlfriend and the daughter to make the most of the summer we have left.  I've had little Brooklyn in the garage helping me with little things here and there.  She helped replace the welding gun tip and re-feed the wire.  It's the little things in life that create the most happiness!

 

I miss your daily posts. Stock Car Mafia and coffee is how I start each day. Get back to work!

[Stock Car Mafia]

NewZed, I do believe I found my issue with the lack of fuel pressure.  One of my lines runs along the passenger header near the collector.  When I was sitting in traffic that hot day, there was no moving air underneath which probably vapor locked my fuel line.  I might have to wrap that this week.  

 

Have you studied the fuel systems of the cars the VG33 came in?  Seems like the "hot start" problems with the L28 were mostly from the design of the engine, with injectors next to exhaust manifold.  The L6 engine is a carb design retrofitted with fuel injection.  

 

The VG33 doesn't normally have hot-start issues in the cars it's used in, does it?  It's an EFI design from the beginning. 

[Stock Car Mafia]

Over the last few weeks there has been a LOT of driving and cruising and less work.  I've been chasing down some new roads to test the car on.  The rear sway bar has helped out immensely.  I probably will go a little thicker/stiffer in the rear down the road.  Still feels a little tight on the apex of corners when I get back in the gas.  In theory, I need to strengthen the chassis so I can increase the spring rate to get the chassis set up correctly.   Seriously the car is on rails in the corner and handles VERY WELL still.  

 

I should have time most of this week to get some work done on the car.  I will be throwing it back on jack stands tonight and going through the car looking for any more issues.  Here are some that I've either found or neglected to fix up til this point:

 

•  Mound OBD2 port:  This is on the passenger side.  Just need to find a solid/easily accessible point for it.
•  Fix low beam headlight:  I've gotten some support from Dapper, I just need to do my part and dig into the root cause of the problem.
•  Take out dash:  Wire the resistor to get the tach working.  Rewire the oil pressure and water temp lights so they work.  
•  Fix left blinker:  The bulb broke on my front driver's side.  
•  Clean up mating surfaces of the hubs with the wheels.
•  Paint exhaust.

 

I've spent some time envisioning what route I want to go down the road.  Obviously handling is important but more power can never hurt.  

 

• Building a roll bar and additional chassis support.
• Going higher in spring rate.  This will require a new and different shock package and potentially new struts.
• New seats with 5 point harnesses.
• Possibly switch to a 8.8" IRS Ford diff or R230 diff and associated parts.

 

I've really been contemplating going forced induction down the road.  I would love to go through and fabricate a turbo setup but I don't like the torque curves of these and don't care to go straight.  The roots/twin screw SC's would blow my rear tires out from underneath me.  The centrifugal SC's seem to be the way to go.  The problem is the LS2 has a higher compression ratio and don't respond as well as the LS1 or LQ4 motors do on pump gas.  

 

I'm looking in to the Corvette style ProCharger setup for the car but would require me to switch to the Corvette pulleys and accessories.  I do believe this sets back the drive system by about an inch compared to the F-Body layout.  I need to see if the damper will still have clearance and fit and where the alternator would have to be moved to.  Again, just playing with options but these all take time to figure out.  

 

A lot of these improvements will take time and probably won't progress as fast as the project has so far.  I've been told there are more important things in life that need attention  

[BLOZ UP]

Have you studied the fuel systems of the cars the VG33 came in?  Seems like the "hot start" problems with the L28 were mostly from the design of the engine, with injectors next to exhaust manifold.  The L6 engine is a carb design retrofitted with fuel injection.  

 

The VG33 doesn't normally have hot-start issues in the cars it's used in, does it?  It's an EFI design from the beginning. 

 

Yeah, I don't know what the deal is. Perhaps little underhood air flow. The fuel lines don't really get close to the exhaust, but the exhaust overall is much higher in the engine bay (just below each vent, actually), and takes up far more room (front mount turbo). But, on the other hand, the car will only trigger the electric fan when sitting, and the oil temps rarely get up unless you sit idling as well (though the temp gauge is on my remote filter assembly, so it could be a quite few degrees colder than in the engine).

 

I may try just adding a under tray/pan to see if that helps or makes it worse and then if that doesn't help I'll start being a bit more scientific.

[Stock Car Mafia]

Here I thought I had the stock sway bar figured out.  There is no problem under acceleration, as the diff lifts up under load. 

 

I took the car out last night and drove it pretty hard, like usual.  On a couple down shifts where I didn't rev match I could hear clicking coming from the rear.  I would assume this is the diff nose diving from deceleration from the motor.  The diff mount is poly but still flexible enough for it to move.  I'm not too worried by this but it is annoying.  Probably will be switching sway bar mount locations at some point.