jgkurz Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) Hi All, It's been a while since I've posted. I am going to get my Z back on the road but before I do I am going to upgrade the turbo. I currently run a .63 T3 turbine housing on my 3.0L L6 that got me to 455rwhp and 462rwtq. This was likely with a fair amount of back pressure but with decent spool. I prefer some boost before 3000 rpm. I'd really like some feedback from those of you running a .82 A/R turbine housing. Thank you! -John Edited July 12, 2016 by jgkurz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirkland1980 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Yes I used a .82 for several years then switched to a .63. The car accelerated much quicker with the .63. i just switched back to the .82 to get more top end. I'm taking the car to the drag strip Friday. Hopefully I'm not the slowest car there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) Yes I used a .82 for several years then switched to a .63. The car accelerated much quicker with the .63. i just switched back to the .82 to get more top end. I'm taking the car to the drag strip Friday. Hopefully I'm not the slowest car there. Thanks for the response! I'm hesitant to go to the .82 for the same reason you mentioned. I don't want that.....wait for it..... experience. The new turbo is a GTX3576R so far more efficient than old turbo. This plus having more displacement might spool acceptably with a .82 also with the benefit of more peak HP. It's a tough decision.. Edited July 12, 2016 by jgkurz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirkland1980 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I actually liked the .82. I changed it because I occasionally drag race the car (1/8 mile) and the lag was killing me. Quarter mile would have kicked ass. But daily street driving was great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 Interesting. I would have thought it would have been the other way around with the .63 being better for daily street driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirkland1980 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 The top end power on the freeway was great with the.82. Unless you want 1.60 60ft times I'd keep the .82. And like you said you have more displacement and more efficient turbo. The .63 could choke your engine. Mine would not pass 6000 rpm with the .63. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 My dyno chart with the .63 drops off into the abyss after 6000 RPMs. I was never sure what the reason was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 I decided on a .82. I am hoping the better designed housing, plumbing, turbo, and exhaust minimize the additional turbo lag... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 What cam are you using? JeffP running the GT35R(X) is pulling to 7400 and still hasn't hit power peak yet....and laments "I never have used that 0.82A/R Housing it came with!" Remember his earlier tests showed the same pressure in the intake and exhaust manifold at 7,000 rpms and that was before getting the GT35 with the better flowing turbine wheel. The engine makes 2-3 psi boost at WOT at virtually any rpm, and like clockwork goes to full boost (17psi+) at 3100~3200 pulling like crazy till rev cut and before power peak. He went to the X model as it was obvious from the dyno pulls that the compressor end was out of air. The X makes 100 HP more of air from 17-25 psi and that's exactly where he needs it. But back to the forged piston setup since 7400 is pushing it on ITM L28ET Cast Replacement slugs and stock rods.He'll go back to the Carrillo Rods and the 3.0 with Forged pistons and break that one again pushing it to see what it will do. But yeah...."I coulda saved $800 on that damn housing! Herrr Herrr Herrr!" He seems happy with the 0.63. 70-120 is around 4 seconds in 3rd...with two people in the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirkland1980 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 My .63 housing was only $250 from atp. Maybe there's some valve float causing the power loss at high rpm. My springs are at 200lbs@ .460 lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted July 13, 2016 Author Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) Tony and Skirkland180, I didn't remember that Jeff was using a .63 until you reminded me. It almost defies physics that he gets that much power out of that housing. I have done a fair bit of research and most say above 450ish crank hp the .63 is too small. Of course Jeff has proven that wrong. My car tips over around 5800-6000 but pulls like a freight train to that RPM. My last trip to the drag strip netted an 11.3@123.9mph with a 1.76 60ft on street tires so no slouch. I have an Isky cam that is only 480/490 lift with a 114 lobe center. I forget the duration. It should pull well past 6K but doesn't for some reason. My head is mildly ported and I have mandrel 3" exhaust. I'm going to give the new v-band Tial turbine housings a try in addition to a much improved wastegate and downpipe design. My hope is that the .82 won't hurt me too much on the bottom end and but solve my peak RPM issue. I may also install better valve springs. Mine aren't stock but I don't remember the spring rate. Edited July 13, 2016 by jgkurz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimO Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 Hey John, Glad to see you back on the forum. I’m running a GTX 3582R. On my new motor I went from a T3 .63 to a T4 .82. I love it! The larger turbine housing seems to be well matched to my new motor which has an offset ground LD28 (85mm) crank, P90 that flows 218 cfm intake 155 cfm exhaust. Aggressive Isky cam .540 lift 270 degrees both sides, 109 lobe center. TWM’s, etc. The T3 .63 ar chocked this motor. The T4 .82 has much more mid range and top end. It bounces off the 7300 rev limiter easily without any warning of drop off. The .63 dropped off a bit before 7300. In terms of spool up/lag. I don’t notice hardly any lag if any. I already have traction problems at low rpms. I don’t have dyno numbers yet but here’s a seat of the pants experience. A buddy with a Superformance Cobra running a 550 hp small block Ford couldn’t keep up with me coming out of corners or on the straights. As we’ve discussed before it’s all about balancing the components and matching air flow characteristics and how you drive. Your motor may work well with a .63. My motor works well with a T4 .82 for road racing. By the way the .82 is easier to drive. It feels more like a big block Chevy than a peaky L6. Call if you want to talk further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 Good info Tim!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240zdan Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 (edited) Running a .82. The GTX3576r is a great turbo, and it really needs the .82 to let that compressor wheel do its job. The GTX compressor wheel really only is more efficient at higher pressure ratios, and at the pressure ratios it becomes efficent a .63 will be choking it slightly. The GTX will not spool faster than a standard cast wheel of the same size. In fact I found it spools even slower. Parts of the reason Garret came out with the GTX3576R is because the GTX 76mm wheel is more suited to a GT35 turbine since its ability to flow so much air at higher PRs is there. The GTX3071R is the one to get if youre looking to make lower power but quicker spool. Both GTX3582 and GTX3076 are not a good choice IMO. I prefer to run larger ar turbine housings and play with the compressor wheel size to determine my spool/ability to make topend power. Right now I am running a PTE 5830 with .82AR. I have tried the PTE 6235r, PTE 5830r, GTX3582R, and GTX 3576R. The GTX 3576R destroyed the 3582r in every way possible and just felt way better. The GTX wheels work really good at higher boost but I found alot more response with a standard 6 blade splitter wheel, especially at lower sub 20psi boost levels. All turbos were running .82AR and the current one is a 5830r with .82 which spools very very quickly and doesnt die up top (~450hp) Another turbo to consider is the SPA, using a 7 blade wheel which offers very nice response. The PTE has shifted to 7 blades now IIRC as well. EFR turbos are 7 blade, along with most newer OEM Holsets. Tells you something. This is on a 2.6L RB but I really think it would apply to the L series as well. Leave the .63 for the honda guys. Drive pressure is never a good thing on our motors and is a band aid fix for quicker spool. You want a free flowing exhaust housing/turbine wheel for your displacement and the smallest yet most efficient compressor wheel for your power goals for the ultimate package. Just remember you cont compare a 58/76mm 11 blade gtx to a 58/76 7 or 6 blade. The design is completley different and the GTX wont spool the same as say a 6 or 7 blade yet make more power from my opinion/experience. In the end, dont expect the 11 blade GTX to work any magic on your motor, it has one purpose and that is to be efficient at HIGH boost. This is why EVO guys love them. Combined with E85 they have a potent turbo in a small package. Its also a very very quiet charger. Might be a good thing if youre into stealth. All said and done the GTX wheel design was originally made for an OE diesel application where high efficiency at high PRs and noise was a concern, keep that in mind when spending the 3k on one. Edited July 15, 2016 by 240zdan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Has anybody but Jeff done the exhaust manifold pressure checks? TimO your setup sounds a lot like JeffP's, and the thing to remember is he's still on an L28ET Manifold flowing only 190CFM against a ported head which flows 220cfm, so when he does finally put that set of TWM ITB's in place the dynamics may change considerably. My understanding is some of the new Diesels have an exhaust pressure sensor available, and if this is true, I can see adding that to a logging channel, or monitoring it with the EMS will pay dividends in the black art of turbine sizing.JeffP is probably at the point where his nice custom 3" Stainless Steel Exhaust is starting to be a constriction as well. He never likes me mentioning it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 (edited) Each of you make a compelling argument for your turbine housing of choice. Thank you for taking the time to offer such thorough responses. It's great to be back on the forum and see everyone is still here. The design of the new Tial housing makes them very easy to change out so I can easily swap if I don't like the first housing. I have an OEM exhaust manifold so maybe the .63 is still the way to go. I have never had the .82 so I'm curious how it works with my set up. In the end it may come down to personal preference. Edited July 15, 2016 by jgkurz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimO Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 John, The OEM exhaust manifold is creating quite an exhaust restriction. Your leaving a lot of flow on the table. It's well work the $ to have it ported. It's not that hard to do yourself. At a minimum focus on where runners 1,2,3 and 4 come together. Or send your manifold to these guys: http://www.lonewolfperformance.com/prices.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 John, The OEM exhaust manifold is creating quite an exhaust restriction. Your leaving a lot of flow on the table. It's well work the $ to have it ported. It's not that hard to do yourself. At a minimum focus on where runners 1,2,3 and 4 come together. Or send your manifold to these guys: http://www.lonewolfperformance.com/prices.htm Thank a lot Tim... Now I have to spend money on porting. Ugh... : ) In all seriousness, Lonewolf looks like they are the "Easy Button" for porting. I'll probably pay more to ship them the parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizzurp Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Shaft speed and both manifold pressures (intake and exhaust) being logged will tell you what you need to do and what you are doing in the PR realm and clue you into whether you need to pop up a size on turbine wheel, compressor wheel, or turbine housing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernardd Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I used both housings on my setup. I much preferred the .82 housing over the .63. I used a stalled jatco and had no issues getting consistent 1.65 60' times. My setup was cammed for 4 to 7k which was more of a sweet spot for the .82. Keep in mind this was with the old stage 3 Garrett turbos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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