What type of Engine oil to use?

[jasper]

 The story:

At least 5 years ago, I bought a 1981 280zx engine and 5spd transmission. 

Complete with all accessories , harness, computer etc. 

 

 I was told the car was driven off the dealer's lot, and rear ended. He somehow bought the drivetrain.

It was sitting under his work bench in Long Island, N.Y., till I bought it, for $475.00

When I saw the factory blue paint on the oil filter, I was starting to believe. When I found

the egr tube still shiny, with the blue over spray, I was convinced.

 

If you look at the pics, you can see he was telling the truth. Looks like the day it was born.

 

Since the oil is 35 years old, as is the filter, I would think there would be a better oil choice today.

 

The question??

What oil type/viscosity/etc. would be a good choice for start up, and break in of a "NEW" 35 year old engine?

 

PS.  The EFI was removed, and carb'd, for ease of getting this new build on the road. 

        Will probably get it's EFI back, sometime down the road.

 

Thanks for your input.

[Wizzurp]

Prime it first, don't just start it. You can either do it through the oil pressure sender port or just unplug the coil and crank it over for a minute in ten second increments. I'd probably run some cheapo delo or rotella through it (15w40) 

[NewZed]

 

At least 5 years ago, I bought a 1981 280zx engine and 5spd transmission. 

 

 I was told the car was driven off the dealer's lot, and rear ended. 

 

Since the oil is 35 years old, as is the filter, I would think there would be a better oil choice today.

 

The question??

What oil type/viscosity/etc. would be a good choice for start up, and break in of a "NEW" 35 year old engine?

 

So, basically you're saying that you have a freshly built engine that has not been broken in.  The main worry then would be the camshaft lobes and rocker arms.  Zinc (ZDDP) seems to be key.  There are a variety of break-in oils out there.  VR1 racing oil seems to be popular, as one, for example.  Not designated as a break-in oil but it's an older ZDDP containing formulation. People have had issues with using a non-zinc oil with added ZDDP break-in additive.  Probably best to find a zinc-containing break-in oil.  Brad Penn is a brand that seems popular.

 

http://www.valvoline.com/our-products/motor-oil/vr1-racing-oil

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bpo-009-7120

http://www.competitionproducts.com/Brad-Penn-PENN-GRADE-1-Break-In-Oil-30W-Quart/productinfo/BPO30WTQT/#.V42S89IrKig

 

Read up on failed camshaft swaps and you'll find many opinions but getting an oil with the ZDDP already formulated in seems like a good idea.

[Wizzurp]

If it was "driven off the dealers lot" it had factory run in/wasn't a "new" motor. Lube the cam and prime the crap out of it/verify oil pressure then let it rip. 

[NewZed]

Describe "factory run-in".  From 1981.  Use details.

[Rob L]

Brad Penn "the green stuff"

[Wizzurp]

Describe "factory run-in".  From 1981.  Use details.

Attempt to find the mechanical limiter via valve float for approximately 10 minutes or until the engine is broken in. It says so in the fsm. 

[NewZed]

That's what I thought.

[Wizzurp]

That states literally nothing about engine break in procedure. I do agree with you on having a quality motor oil, my company recommends vr1, brad penn, amsoil dominator, various joe gibbs oils, and the higher viscosity grades of royal purple XPR to be used with a few others (to retain a warranty on our products) based on our torture testing. That being said, it makes a blistering 23whp per cylinder if he is lucky, it's not exactly seeing a lot of pressure on the bearings, assuming the cam lobes are seeing adequate oil volume of decent quality oil, there isn't a lot of likelihood of something going horribly wrong on a stock motor that likely still has a factory fresh valve adjustment. 

That being said, the zddp content of rotella or delo is significantly higher than the average automotive oil to the extent that it should do very well on flat tappet cam setups. 

[Wizzurp]

The main downside of the aforementioned racing oils is that they have very little detergent if any and need to be changed often or they break down and you will see larger changes in viscosity vs normal road car oil. 

[NewZed]

It says the first 1000 miles is critically important.  Which is the regime the OP is in right now.  It doesn't look like you've been keeping up with cam and rocker damage horror stories.  

[Wizzurp]

Of all the L series motors I've had I've never had a cam/pad wear issue. Every single motor oil choice in this thread is perfectly fine. I told him to prime the motor properly and run it, what about that is incorrect for operating a motor that hasn't been run in years? Are you just mad because I said use cheap rotella? It may be cheap but it is high in zinc/phosphorous, he probably won't have it in there for more than 500 miles anyways, may as well run and do a drain and fill to get rid of any potential gunk that may be in there. I don't understand your agitation.  

[NewZed]

If it was "driven off the dealers lot" it had factory run in/wasn't a "new" motor. Lube the cam and prime the crap out of it/verify oil pressure then let it rip. 

Not mad.  You sounded like you knew something with this post, but apparently you were just making things up.  If anyone's agitated, it's you.  

[Wizzurp]

Ok.

[NewZed]

So, back to the OP's issue - If the oil is clean you could  just use what's in there.  Probably full of ZDDP.  Nissan factory spec.  Drain it to make sure no water has condensed in over the years, although those cam lobes look like they've been pretty dry, then pour it back in.  Then use one of the several oils recommended here for the first oil change.

 

I'd dribble some oil over the lobes and rockers before turning it over to prime.  The lobes look like they've drained completely dry of any oil.

[NewZed]

If it was "driven off the dealers lot" it had factory run in/wasn't a "new" motor. Lube the cam and prime the crap out of it/verify oil pressure then let it rip. 

 

Attempt to find the mechanical limiter via valve float for approximately 10 minutes or until the engine is broken in. It says so in the fsm. 

I got "motivated" 'cause you challenged my description of his motor as "new" (it's pretty common to see less than 10 miles on a new car's odometer), then took it further with the valve float comment.  That's just how the world works...

[Chickenman]

In the early 1980's... when your engine was built, engine oils had a TON of ZDDP in them. Camshaft breahin was not really an issue. Today in 2016 things are a LOT different. ZDDP content has dropped tremendously in most motor oils.

 

Looking at the pictures of the camshaft, that engine has nearly zero hours on it. As the FSM states. the first 1,000 miles is the most important and it still is. However, you have to take extra measures to break in the valve train properly because of the current lack of ZDDP in most oils.

 

This would be some of my procedures for starting an engine that has sat for 35 years.

 

1: Drain and replace all lubricants, fuels coolants and change the oil filter. Remove plugs, disable ignition and injectors. You may want to change the W/Pump as a precaution. If the engine sat with no coolant in it for a long time, the W/Pump seal has probably died out. 

 

2: Fog the cylinder bores with a winter storage lube or squirt some ATF in the cylinders. Cylinder walls are likely going to be bone dry after sitting for 35 years, unless the engine was fogged before hand.

 

3: Remove the rockers and lube all the pivot ends on ball studs and rocker cups with Cam break-in lube or a good Moly based grease. Reassemble and do an initial valve adjust. 

 

4: Coat the Cam lobes liberally with Camshaft break-in Lube from Isky, Comp Cams Edelbrock etc. Pour a full quart of your favorite  Dino break-in oil liberally over the Camshaft, rockers, rocker pivots and chain.

 

5: Use a high ZDDP Dino oil such as Delo 400 30wt, Pennzoil 20w-50 or any of the purpose built break-in oils made by Brad Penn, Joe Gibbs etc.

 

6: Prime the engine by pressurizing the oil gallery or using a modified distributor shaft with the gear machined. Off Pull the valve cover and prime that baby until you see oil coming out of the oil spray bar or cam lube holes. Have a mechanical gauge hooked up so you can see the actual pressure as well. If you use a pressure feed through the oil gallery, make sure you don't over fill the sump. That is very important.

 

7: Once you have oil coming out of the top end, turn the engine over by hand to distribute oil in the cylinder bores and all around journals. Don't use the starter motor until you are absolutely sure that you do not have any stuck rings. The starter motor has enough Torque to break a partially stuck ring. 

 

8: After turning over by hand, coat the Camshaft AGAIN with cam break in lube.

 

9: Prepare engine for starting. Top up all fluid levels. Install fresh plugs. Base time engine at 10 BTDC. Make sure battery is fully charged and has a HD charger attached. Prime fuel system. Have extra jugs of coolant ready to top up Rad system when it burps.You want this sucker to fire up at first crank and STAY running for 20 minutes with out having to shut it down or worse, let it idle for any length of time. Have a Fire Extinguisher or two ready to go.

 

10: Start engine and as soon as you have oil pressure, raise engine speed to 1,500 rpm. Check oil pressure!! Have helpers checking for fluid leaks etc while you monitor gauges and control throttle. After about 30 seconds. Shut off engine. Let oil drain and recheck engine oil level. All galleries and Oil filter should now be full and the level may have dropped a bit. Top up oil level as necessary. Do NOT over fill the sump!!

 

11: Start her up again and raise engine speed to  2,000 RPM. This ensure a good supply of oil reaches the Camshaft, rocker pads and valve springs( V/Springs are cooled by oil spray ). Do NOT let engine idle. Once water temp starts to move start varying engine speed between 2,000 RPM and 3,000 RPM ( no need to go higher ) . This is better than maintaining one constant speed. Helpers should be ready to add coolant when the rad burps.  

12: Run the engine for 20 minutes with out shutting off if possible. Constantly varying speed.

 

13: At the end of 20 minutes, shut her down and drain all engine oil into a clean pan.Remove oil filter. Examine engine oil and filter pleats. Install fresh DINO break-in oil and a new oil filter. Set your timing and re-adjust valves. Fix any minor issues etc.

 

14: Drive car for 75 to 100 miles, constantly varying engine RPM. Do not take on freeway and do not lug engine. Vary engine speed and load. Don't let RPM get too high. Fisrt 50 miles no more than 4,000 RPM As you near 100 miles you can  increase RPM to short bursts to 5,000 rpm.

 

15: After 100 miles change oil and filter again. Inspect oil and filter pleats. Install fresh Dino break-in oil and a new oil filter. Drive for 1,000 miles, varying RPM's is best, but you can use the freeway now. Juts don't keep the engine at constant RPM's for long periods. Shift up and down on Freway to vary engine RPMs. Engine RPM limit can be raise to 6,000 RPM as you pass 500 miles.

 

16: At 1,0000 miles... guess what? Change oil and filter again. But this time you can change to a good synthetic Ester oil. Engine should be fully broken in and can be used to Redline.

 

Regarding oils, Synthetic or Dino. Do not use Energy Star oils and stick the the thicker weights. ( Thicker weights 10w-40 and above are generally not Energy Star compliant and contain more ZDDP ) . There is a ton of info out there on what to use. But as far as Synthetic oils, the same names always come up to the to the top of the list. Amsoil, Redline, Motul, Joe Gibbs Brad Penn. For those who prefer Dino oils, Joe Gibbs conventional, Valvoline VR ( change it often though ) , Pennzoil 20w-50, Brad Penn and a few others are pretty good. I haven't used Dino oils since the 1980's though...and I never will. Synthetics are just so much superior. Particularly Esters, PAO's and MAO formulations. Your opinion may vary and that's fine and dandy.

 

Hope this helps.

[BJSZED]

I just broke in a new cam and rockers with rotella....believe it was 15w40. The rotella doesn't have as much ZDDP in it as before. They changed the classification of it.

I only ran it for about an hour, then dumped it and run Amsoil ZRod now, high ZDDP

[jasper]

Thanks for the input guys....

This is not my first Rodeo. I'm 57 years old, and have been ASE certified since the early 80's.

45+ years experience, and counting. Of course I will prime the system, and confirm oil flow.

 

I know that engine oils have have changed DRASTICALLY in the last 35 years. 5, 10, and 15k oil change 

intervals are common.  300k on today's engines are common. I know it's all about the oil.

I believe there is probably a better choice of oil to use, than what is currently sitting in the 35 year old oil pan.

 

The experience I do lack, is in oil choices for an unusual situation, such as this. 

I'm hoping some of you guys know more than I do, and have practical experience. 

I'm leaning towards the Brad Penn.

Is a straight 30 weight suggested?

I've started to research your recommendations. I'm not done.

Again, thanks for all your help.

[Chickenman]

I just broke in a new cam and rockers with rotella....believe it was 15w40. The rotella doesn't have as much ZDDP in it as before. They changed the classification of it.

I only ran it for about an hour, then dumped it and run Amsoil ZRod now, high ZDDP

 

The 15w-40 is an HDEO Dino oil correct? Yeah, even the Diesel and HDEO engines are getting ZDDP reduced, although not nearly as much as oils for Petrol engines.

 

I wish Rotella made the T6 Synthetic in something other than a 5w-40. A 10w-40 or a 15w-50, 20w-50 would be awesome. The 5w on the cold spec is just a wee bit too thin for my comfort with the fairly large bearing clearances that L-Series engines were designed with.

 

I use the Rotella T6 5w-40 on my Audi Turbo. Awesome oil.

 

10/40 Joe Gibbs Hot-Rod Synthetic on the 280z. using the above break-in in procedures, I've gone 4,000 miles since my first synthetic oil change with out burning a DROP of oil. ( Brand new engine built from ground up ) Pretty impressed with that.