78 280Z NA MS2 Triggering

[taaron]

Hey All,

I just wanted to make a new topic because I have a bit of a more specific question and wanted to make sure I'm absolutely on the right path before I start modifying my board. So I bought a Megasquirt 2 3.57 Assembled board from DIY Autotune. It did not come with the BIP373 transistor (ordered and will be here today hopefully). I've attached pictures of my board and how it currently sits. 

 

I know the first thing I need to do is wire in the BIP373 transistor and follow the steps associated with that. Thats pretty straight forward. The problem I'm having is with triggering. I currently have a new 82/83 Turbo ZX Distributor with the trigger wheel from DIYAUTO. I also have the original trigger wheel that came with the dizzy, just not installed. I was wondering what is going to be my best bang for the buck way to set up triggering. Softopz mentioned going the route of the VR Conditioner. If thats the case, do I just follow the steps listed in the msextra manual (Attached to this post for ease of reading). What about setting up tunerstudio. Also should I be worried with all the wires currently ran on the back of my board. 

 

I should note I'm currently using a relay board and would like to keep it if possible. I'm not concerned with trying to have the most precision triggering possible, I just want to be able to have a car that I can drive again. 

[cgsheen]

Be sure to get this document from the DIYAutotune site:

 

https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/hardware/nissan-trigger-disc/

 

 

[taaron]

So I've looked at that site, and going through the VR Conditioner on there is different than on the MSExtra manual.  Theres a lot more steps listed and at the same time, it calls out these proto areas that don't exist on these boards. 

 

Hardware mods – V3.57

• For a V3.57, you’d have to remove a lot of parts to use the Hall / optical input, so we’ll just bring this in through the VR conditioner instead.
• Place the JP1 jumper in the 1-2 position.
• Place the J1 jumper in the 5-6 position.
• Put a 1K resistor in the R57 slot (Or you can use a 1K pull up in the wiring, as above.).
• If you want sequential coil on plug (or sequential injection with the 3.2.1 code), you’ll also need a second trigger input. Solder a 1K resistor onto a length of wire, and cover the resistor with heat shrink tubing. Connect this resistor-on-a-wire combination from JS10 to SPR1. You could also use PAD7 if you’d rather bring the input in through the DB15.
• Solder a 470 ohm resistor onto a length of wire and cover with heat shrink tubing. Run this resistor-on-a-wire from the 5 volt terminal in the proto area to SPR1 (or PAD7 if you used this in the preceeding step.).
• Connect a 0.1 uF capacitor from JS10 to SG or the proto area ground.
• Install the spark output of your choice. BIP373 or QuadSpark output mods are two possible choices. OEM Nissan SR20DET ignition modules require 5 volt logic level ignition outputs.

[Chickenman]

As Softopz and I have both mentioned. Use the MSExtra hardware guide. It has the most up to date information and methods.  I also sent you the relevant sections to look at for wiring. That does NOT include section 5.2.2.  Section 5.2.2 is for a VR sensor. You do not have a VR sensor. You have an Dual Optical Crank Angle Sensor . As stated in section 5.2.8 of the MSextra hardware manual, the Nissan, Mitsubishi and GM Optispark systems have to be built in a specific manner. And that manner is in section 5.2.3 of the MSextra manual. Not the Diy site. 

 

Use section 5.2.3 .  The Nissan Optical CAS also must have a +12 volt power feed. It's not a simple LED like a Petronix or Mallory Unilite. Lots of complicated circuitry in the Nissan CAS and it requires +12 volt power input. 

 

The part that must be understood, is that an an Optical sensor or a Hall sensor can be wired through the Opt/in circuit or the VR conditioner circuit. Either method will work. The old method was Opt/in. But the VR conditioner circuit provides a clearer signal and is provides adjustable noise filtering which the Opt/in circuit does not. That's why it is recommended in the MSExtra manual.  But the use of the VR conditioner was only available with the software revisions in Firmware versions 3.2.1 and later. That's why we keep saying to use the MSExtra 3.4.2 Hardware manual.  Tuner Studio will work fine with your current settings and the Tune I sent.  Once the missing components are added and things are wired correctly....

 

The term VR conditioner is badly named. It causes confusion as people think that it is only for VR sensors. That's not true. It can be used with any sensor. Hall, Optical LED, VR or points. A better named would be just a generic:  " Signal "  conditioner IMHO. 

 

Your mainboard ( and Relay Board ) are wired wrong and have missing components. Install the Bip 373. Move JS10 wire to an unused output ( Maybe SPR3 or SPR 4 ) It looks like SPR1 and SPR2 are populated. Probably for PWM idle control. Hussein can advise better on that than me. 

 

You need.

1: BIP373 coil driver installed in Q16. Jumpers configured and jumper wire for JS10 relocated.

2: + 12 volt supply to the Nissan CAS. Right now we aren't sure what it's getting.

3: +12 volt supply in Run and Crank position ( Ignition switch ) to your coil. Right now it has nothing. That's not gonna work.

 

Remember that the MS ECU controls most devices by GROUNDING. It doe not supply +12 voltage to injectors, ignition coil, fuel pump, IAC solenoids etc. Anything with a high current demand has to be supply +12 volts through a dedicated circuit or high current relays. 

 

Hope this helps clear the muddy waters... 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Chickenman

[taaron]

So great news update, I think. Followed all the instructions, I now have both trigger signals and rpms showing up. New problem is, I'm for some reason just getting 10ish volts out of my relayboard at the fuel pump/coil+ position. Could this potentially be due to some bad grounding? I initially had everything grounded at the starter motor but learned thats a big No No. I moved it a bit further away but I still need to relocate it to the other side of the block, I just didn't have the terminals on me to make the cable. 

[Chickenman]

Quote

BIP373s on a MegaSquirt-II V3.0 or V3.57 – Single Coil

Hardware mods required:

• Jumper IGBTOUT to IGN to send to IGBT ignition coil driver signal out of pin 36 on the DB37. (not needed on a V3.57)
• Cut out R57 if fitted on a V3.0 (This won’t be there on my units, though.).
• Our assembled V3.57 boards, if not fitted for direct coil control, will have a jumper from JS10 to the center hole of Q16. Remove the jumper from the center hole of Q16, and reroute it from JS10 to IGBTIN.
• Solder a BIP373 into the Q16 slot, using a mica insulator.

 

Do you have the Jumper wire JS10 removed from center hole of Q16 and attached to IGBTIN ?

 

• Don't forget to change the little Jumper Caps on the 3.57 board

 

• Place the JP1 jumper in the 1-2 position.
• Place the J1 jumper in the 5-6 position.

 

I do wish MS would not use the word " Jumper "  for a connecting wire.

 

This is a " Jumper " :

 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Chickenman

[taaron]

Yup did all of those things. 

[softopz]

I told you as well this is all you need to do

 

• Place the JP1 jumper in the 1-2 position.
• Place the J1 jumper in the 5-6 position(diy method). OR 3-4 Position (msextra manual)
• Put a 1K resistor in the R57 slot (Or you can use a 1K pull up in the wiring, as above.). 480ohms seems to be the sweet one but any from 300-1k is enough
• Remove the jumper from JS10 to IGN or the center hole of Q16 (if exists)
• Jumper IGBTIN to JS10 OR other outputs pin 7 of ECU daughter card is recommended more
• adjust the pots according manual 

I wouldnt worry about your 10v now because your car is not running and what its the state of your battery. Your MS2 ground should be on engine your POWER grounds should be at bat - or starter.

 

Wire in your relayboad / Harness set your timing and your good to go 

[taaron]

I've done all those things, according to the msextra manual. I put a 1k resistor in r57 because thats what I had around so that worked.

 

10v is my main concern because that seems to be whats holding me up. I believe spark is now the only thing holding me up. The battery is good, I had it tested at autozone this weekend, and it lives on a trickle charger. 

 

My MS2 grounds are currently on chassis (I know bad, getting corrected tonight). That chassis ground is also connected to the block in a real shit (greasy dirty) spot, didn't have time to make a longer cable last night to relocate). My battery sits in the back of the car, so it is grounded to the chassis in the back ( I can run it to the block up front if that needs to happen, however I thought the shorter run cable would be better than having an 11ft ground to the block. 

 

I'm going to get all those grounds rearranged this evening and see if that gives me 12v out of that terminal. If not I'm going to start pulling wires one at a time to see where my voltage is bleeding out. 

[taaron]

So to anyone that gets stuck where I did, DONT FORGET THE MICA INSULATOR ON THE BIP373. The car is running now!