pparaska Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Agreed. High hp/displacement ratio is a nice thing to brag about and great for a race car. On the street, it just isn't as much fun, especially if the HP is all up in the stratosphere rpm range. To me, bragging about a 1.6l engine having higher hp/displacement than a larger engine that has a bunch more usable torque and HP is just high tech snobbery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted December 19, 2002 Author Share Posted December 19, 2002 wow 16 post ... i guess i hit a funny bone. I dont have a pic to post but if you were to over lay my dyno sheet with the car in question (108,00 miles)they are pretty close. My hp and torque lines start to increase alittle before the vg does and they dont cross till the upper RPM range (around 5000) mine carried 390 from 5000-redline ( 7500) compared to the 410 the vg carried out from the same point. BTW what is the redline on a stock vgdett? from what ive seen the vg is a strong motor.... but with just bolt on stuff the rb26 will produce better hp and torque numbers then the vg. and thats just because you can fit bigger bolt on stuff to the rb then you can the vg ;> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 as much i love the RB, i would go with that twin turbo 300zx motor over it, once again due to availability. i would love to see how that swap turns out, i can get those motors for a good price, not cheap, but a good price considering that theres a warranty involved and its domestically available without knowing the secret handshake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MegaShaft_2000 Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 Originally posted by STONY: My hp and torque lines start to increase alittle before the vg does and they dont cross till the upper RPM range (around 5000) mine carried 390 from 5000-redline ( 7500) compared to the 410 the vg carried out from the same point. BTW what is the redline on a stock vgdett? from what ive seen the vg is a strong motor.... but with just bolt on stuff the rb26 will produce better hp and torque numbers then the vg. and thats just because you can fit bigger bolt on stuff to the rb then you can the vg ;> Yeah, the RB is easy to go single while the Z is limited by space constraints. BTW, everyone's TQ and HP curves should crossover at the same point. 5250 for everyone since it's part of the HP formula. You have a beautiful car by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 Originally posted by MegaShaft_2000:I used vastly different displacements simply to illustrate my point. I'm not saying that the difference between the VG and the RB will be the same as the difference between a model airplane engine and a locomotive engine... But the 15% difference in displacement does account for something... After all, the RB26's redline is only about 14% higher than the VG30's and the original poster only claimed that the RB will make around 7% more HP than the VG30DETT. Yes, the differences we are talking about are smaller. But still, with the data that is presented, the RB with 400cc less displacement is making more power with less boost (apparently). I attribute that to the VE and the higher redline. It's not a question of hp/liter, but pure and simple HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MegaShaft_2000 Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 Originally posted by ON3GO:But you cant say the bigger the motor the lower it can rev...look at Ferrari's. V12s and crazy redlines... Mike Well let's talk apples and apples here... I said that *given the same level of technology*, the larger engine won't rev as high. I'd imagine that when you buy a Ferrari you're not buying a plain jane mass produced engine that you see in affordable cars. Also, keep in mind that just because it's a V12 doesn't mean it's a large engine. Most are pretty small V12's. The Testerossa has a 5 liter V12, and it puts out a little bit more power than a LS1 does. It doesn't rev much higher than any other engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simon Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 Hey, what is the diffrence between the VG30DETT and VG30DET heads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MegaShaft_2000 Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 Originally posted by SleeperZ: quote: Originally posted by MegaShaft_2000: I used vastly different displacements simply to illustrate my point. I'm not saying that the difference between the VG and the RB will be the same as the difference between a model airplane engine and a locomotive engine... But the 15% difference in displacement does account for something... After all, the RB26's redline is only about 14% higher than the VG30's and the original poster only claimed that the RB will make around 7% more HP than the VG30DETT. Yes, the differences we are talking about are smaller. But still, with the data that is presented, the RB with 400cc less displacement is making more power with less boost (apparently). I attribute that to the VE and the higher redline. It's not a question of hp/liter, but pure and simple HP. I'm not so sure that the data presented was accurate anyway. For one, the Z that we're referring to had an unusually low dyno. Secondly, I have never seen a Skyline dyno with those turbos so I don't know exactly how it would do. We can't compare stock for stock because Skylines have bigger turbos than 300ZX's, and all the official info on the Skyline HP is bogus anyway (everyone knows the 276 hp claim is low) so it's hard to compare directly. The higher redline and different camming would definitely raise the HP output, we know that much, but everything else would be impossible to tell without seeing two healthy cars with the same turbos dyno next to each other. I agree that playing the power per liter game is a no win situation because in the end what you get are a bunch of happy Honda owners convinced that their 16 second Civics are fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted December 19, 2002 Author Share Posted December 19, 2002 when i say crossover i meant the vg tq and HP lines compared to mine. another words the vg didnt start producing more power then the rb in question till about 5000 rpm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernardd Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 cool program for factory z32 ecu's http://300zx-twinturbo.com/conzult/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 27, 2002 Share Posted December 27, 2002 I have seen a 240 with a vg30dett with a set of custom downpipes and a turbo and intercooler upgrade. The car ran an 11.4 on a crappy launch on drag radials and was kicked off the track for not having a cage.I belive the rb26 would be the stronger engine just due to the fact that it has more main bearings 7 vs. 4. If i had to start from scratch with a new car i think i would put a sema vg30det with an auto in a 240 the turbo would just have to be located up front to clear the steering .Run some nitrous and be happy with a low 11 high 10 sec car with a fairly cheap disposable motor /tranny.My friend has at least 5 sema vgdet motors with autos sitting in his shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Will Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 Originally posted by ON3GO:the reason why the RB26 makes more power with less boost and more boost is because its a Inline motor. thats a reason why the 2JZ makes good power too. Mike No offense, but this is grossly wrong. Cylinder configuration has NO direct influence on power production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Will Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 Originally posted by MegaShaft_2000: quote: Originally posted by SleeperZ: There is nothing inherently higher revving in a smaller engine. If you make statements like that, then you need to do some more reading up on physics and engine design. For the same level of technology, a smaller engine will always rev higher than a larger engine. Oh yeah? Which should rev higher, a 3.0 litre V6 or a 6.0 litre V12? There's a LOT more to how an engine revs than just displacement. Why is the 305 Chevy a low RPM lump while the 302 Chevy is a top-end screamer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted December 28, 2002 Author Share Posted December 28, 2002 sss510 took me a second to figure that one out... i think you meant CIMA right? and not SEMA like the auto show Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted December 28, 2002 Author Share Posted December 28, 2002 ooops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MegaShaft_2000 Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Originally posted by Will: quote: Originally posted by MegaShaft_2000: quote: Originally posted by SleeperZ: There is nothing inherently higher revving in a smaller engine. If you make statements like that, then you need to do some more reading up on physics and engine design. For the same level of technology, a smaller engine will always rev higher than a larger engine. Oh yeah? Which should rev higher, a 3.0 litre V6 or a 6.0 litre V12? There's a LOT more to how an engine revs than just displacement. Why is the 305 Chevy a low RPM lump while the 302 Chevy is a top-end screamer? Well, if you re-read my original post (correctly, this time) you'd see that I said "For the same level of technology" Name one 6 liter V12 that is mass-produced using the same level of technology as a 3 liter V6. I know lots of people like to point out the McLaren F1's engine, but comparing a hand crafted engine in a $1 million car to a mass produced engine is not even close to being the same level of technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zwhore Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 just you know, that HP is really low. i dynoed several z32's with a very similar set up and they were around 490-550 rwhp depending on boost. the lowest guy was running 18psi and the highest guy was running 26psi(on a stock motor w/105k on it) the rb will make more power than the vg any day. although, my z32 made 574.8 rwhp at only 18.3 psi. so maybe you are on to something. tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MegaShaft_2000 Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Originally posted by zwhore:the rb will make more power than the vg any day. although, my z32 made 574.8 rwhp at only 18.3 psi. I don't think the RB will make more power than the VG. The RB is definitely a tuner's favorite due to its I6 configuration and the ease of working on the engine due to that config, but if you look at professional Nissan tuners who are going for big power they tend to choose the VG over the RB. The fastest Nissan in the quarter mile is the Escort racing Z32 (which runs low 7's) with its VG30DETT, the winningest Nissan car on the track circuit was the IMSA GTS 300ZX, and the fastest Nissan in top speed is the JUN/Blitz Bonneville Z, which also used a VG30DETT. For just about every record Nissan went for that required big power, the VG was chosen over the RB. (By the way, teams using Skylines and Supras tried to take the JUN/Blitz Z32's speed record of 260.8 mph, but all have come up short.) I think the main things working against the VG30DETT are the difficulty to work on that compact engine in that cramped engine compartment and the fact that you need to buy almost 2 of everything on it since it's a parallel setup, which makes modding it expensive. Buying 2 small turbos is a lot more expensive than buying one big one, which is what most modded Skylines and Supras use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MegaShaft_2000 Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Originally posted by sss510:I belive the rb26 would be the stronger engine just due to the fact that it has more main bearings 7 vs. 4. If the bearings were the weak point on the VG30DETT then I would agree with you. But in all reality they don't end up being much of a factor. Escort Z's drag Z still uses the VG30DETT's stock crankshaft, and they're pushing 1200 rwhp. I think with either engine, their lack of displacement will limit power before the engine'e strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zline Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 wow 1200hp on stock crank...dont you think its balanced knife edged and doweled and the bearings are some sort of crazy material...i'd liek to see the spec on that 1200hp engine...its hard to believe stock crank well...it'd be good for maybe 2 passes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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