turbobluestreak Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 I've got to ask some one to get some anwsers I've tried every thing searching on the internet talking to various companies and still nothings. I need to know how to mold and cast a cylinder head because I'm sure I can design one and do all the machining while in my college class but I need to know the molding process for the water jackets and oil passages. and I'm hopping to venture in to doing this for greater performance for the nissan L6 series motor. I've been inspired by the OS Giken tc24-b1 and I won't let anyone piss on my barbecue and stop me from reaching my goal of marketing a 24 valve DOHC head to the z public. Any help in my quest would be apriated and greatly valued. tbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Aren't they sand cast? Good luck, thats all I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 I think you actually need to go with a woodcut model first and get a mold of it with wax then coat it ceramic shell (the sand cating can't get too much fine details and leaves real rough surface) Do your school do Aluminium casting? It's really dangerous Good luck, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbobluestreak Posted April 22, 2003 Author Share Posted April 22, 2003 But thats how foundies cast heads with sand and then machine it out to be used in our cars. tbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shuyun Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Dr. John T. Berry [jtb17] Professor Mechanical Engineering Carpenter, Rm 202 Box M E MS State, MS 39762 (662) 325-7309 campus mailstop 9552 berry@me.msstate.edu This is my Professor who would be a good resorce to contact about casting he has been in the industry of about 60 years. He is an expert in casting, joining and machining. Drop him a detailed Email and explain you goals and he sould be able to point you in the right direction. If he does not help you out i will ask for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 I worked at a foundry last year. (I'm in Steel City ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shuyun Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 With a Low volume detailed casting look for a rapid portotyping facility they should be able to print a wax or foam pattern form a cad drawing. The foundary should be able to gate the pattern and the prototype facility should be able to print/fab these also. The University of Southern Mississippi has a Rapid prototyping development lab they should be able to point you in the right direction for a contact in you area. Most of this is dependent on a CAD drawing for the project. The ability to make low cost low volume castings is on the market and just requires the right contacts. It is not cheep by any means but you may be able to get you school to allow you to use this project as a senior level elective class so they may differ some of the cost. Also as a school project you may get a founday to donate the castings. This sounds like lots of fun let me know where you get and when i get back to school form my COOP I will try to help you out as much as I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbobluestreak Posted April 22, 2003 Author Share Posted April 22, 2003 everyone thank you for the advise and shuyun I'll be giving him a call about helping with this head. Also I've already got a company set up to build the first protype. I hope this all goes well so we can all enjoy a DOHC L6 Zcar. I'm going to mutalate my junk P79 tonight after I work on my car, so I can get an idea for water jackets and how the head was lubercated. I'll let you all know how it goes. I know cost will be high to get one made but after one is done I'll market them to us all. tbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 You might want to get an engine builder involved in your project. Its very common on a new head design to end up with a port/combustion chamber combination that is not much better then the stock parts. You've also got some work to do to figure out the cam drive, intake/exhaust manifolds, coolant flow, etc. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbobluestreak Posted April 22, 2003 Author Share Posted April 22, 2003 great news I may not have to OS Giken may reproduce there 24 valve twin cam head. I have to talk to the president so how and maybe, maybe we might be able to work out a deal to bring back the tc24-b1 but no promisses on that but if I can't bring that back then I'm going to diffently build one for the z commuintity. Thank you all tbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS30-H Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 turbobluestreak, With respect, I strongly recommend that you make a big effort to research the history and current activities of O.S.GIKEN - as well as the full specification of the TC24-B1 head conversion - BEFORE you talk to them. I'm sure that they would be much more willing to listen to you and your plans if you show that you know something about their company and their products. I'm mindful of the fact that up until a few days ago you didn't seem to know anything about them or the TC24-B1. A little bit more research on the subject might not go amiss. It might also help to start thinking about whether a revival of the conversion would cater for the 2.4 litre capacity, or the 2.8 litre capacity that ( surely ) most people would prefer to go for nowadays. This would point towards different valve sizes and cam specs compared to the original setup. Remember too that a special piston was also necessary. Alan T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Don't forget, you'll need the matching intake also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbobluestreak Posted April 22, 2003 Author Share Posted April 22, 2003 also I can't forget about a matching exhaust. From what I understand the molds are iterth destroed or damaged thus they could remake them bolt but maybe something else, if this doesn't work then I'm going to just enginer my own and I found a company that can cast the for 600 each but I will need some one to sand mold it I can deffintly machine it out but I need some one to mold it. Is there any one that can help? If all goes good then one protype will be made and from there on out I will test it and see how it preforms. I can't do this alone and will need help to get the project done. tbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAD D Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 I would suggest try making the head compatible with some other head so you can use the cams and valves, valve springs and even exhaust manifold. I don’t know what head to take parts from but what about a Toyota Supra head? Just my .02 One more thing GM has this cool rapid prototype technology, they make a head in Styrofoam then burry it in sand dump melted aluminum over the Styrofoam and it gets melted away and the aluminum takes its place and you are left with a nice casting ready to machine!!! TOO COOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 you can do the styrofoam meltout. Just don't be standing close sniffing the fume Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbobluestreak Posted April 22, 2003 Author Share Posted April 22, 2003 sounds great guys on the styrofoam idea. Also for to do it in surpa parts I would have to have them on me to do this and I don't if anyone has some junk just setting there and would donate it or sell it for cheap I'll remember who has helped me with this prosses and make sure that it pays off in the end for them. As of now I was thinking hydrolic lifters like the 300zx twin turbos used also thinking about a vtec option that could be used if a person would set up a z32 ecu on there car. But I don't want to get into that as for now I'm trying to do the unthinkable and creat one twin cam head. Please let me know if anyone can do sand casting or knows where I can get it. tbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 would a hemi style head simplify things? i think it would, and also be damn cool!! you have a great idea there, one i have pondered many a time. hope it works out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Hemi head will take alot of ignition advance to get max HP. If it's like Ginken's then over head plugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DaneL24 Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 After you do the research and talk to OS Giken, we should petition for the production of this head here at HybridZ. There are lots of members on this site who would love to see a DOHC head for the L6...maybe it could show them that htere is more of a market for this head than they think. If it doesn't work, then go custom. As far as using Supra cams for the head, I don't think it will work. This is because the engine blocks between the Supra and the early Z are different lengths, even though they are both L6s. Everything would be out of alignment. It would be better to take 2 L6 SOHC's and seriously regrind the lobes, so each section would have 2 intake lobes or 2 exhaust lobes, as opposed to an 1 intake lobe and 1 exhaust lobe, then just use the same cam journals. If the valves are too close to the edges of the combustion chamber, you could use rocker arms with a slight lateral curve inward, so the cam lobes and valves wouldn't have to be perfectly parallel. I have seen this rocker arm style in some '80s Honda Inline 4 Heads. You could make all the other parts, like valves and manifolds compatible with a Supra head though...because valves have nothing to do with engine length; and the Supra L6 manifolds can be roughly the same length as the Datsun L6 manifolds, compensate for the difference with a slight curve in the intake and exhaust runners. Try to use the same timing sprocket hardware as the Datsun L6 too, since it uses reground Nissan cams, then just position the two cams far enough apart to give the big SOHC sprockets clearance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbobluestreak Posted April 24, 2003 Author Share Posted April 24, 2003 Ok I'm going to get my plan of action set strait with you guys. I was told for a fact that the Skyline RB26DETT head will bolt right up to the block and the cambers are dead on from matting with the cylinder bores. but I'll have to have the water ports changed and the oil gallies modified as well. Also as far as it makes since to me I'm going to use 2 stock cam sprokets with skyline everything else. I'll be using a chain instead of belt and it apears that I'll have to make a new front cover for the head as well as a new chain tensioner. The great news is that we can then start to use some new Japan performance parts on our z's and custom fabrication will be cut down on my end and hopefully save everyone money. As of now I'm trying to find a RB26DETT head and excaime the water and oil passages it should be no big deal to have a machine shop heat the head to about 400+ degrees and weld them all shut and then take it to be milled flat and have the new intrance holes machined to match our blocks. And yes by having the head heated and then welded will ward off cracks that must idiots machine shops will over look when welding a head up. Then we can use a stock head gasket as well in this applacation. Everyones head will have to be done individualy if we go this route and if you want go a head and buy a head like this if it works and I'll finish up the work for you and so you can save a lot of money. I did think about casting the head and then machineeing it out but after I would have fabercated it all the price would be really high as I assume OS Gikens if they bring back the head. and the bad part about there head is that you need thier manifolds to use it, to me thats a lot more work then it's worth so I'm sold on the Skyline head with all of there interals and that head will let us rev higher too. tbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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