12 inch Wilwood brake- hats and caliper mounts now ready

[Guest Looking for apt in Alb Ny]

The whole point to doing the JSK thing is to let everyone enjoy the comfort in building a hybridz. Alot of the parts I have been building have been asked on request such as the 12 inch brake hardware. I am going through the suffering to provide you with ease. Anyone who participates with ideas and requests get a discount on the finished product.

here is a link to my eBay feedback . I put my face and address on my web page to show I have nothing to hide. I'm proud to be honest and straightforward. I hope to meet many of you at next years MSA show. I will have on display a whole arrangement of parts not even seen on my web.take care Juan

http://cgi2.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=jskinnovations

 

Do not get confused by high prices these Wilwood parts are very affordable. I think the whole kit thing is a joke. Prices have to go up because of shipping expense and resale factor. http://www.precisionbrakescompany.com. I am working with these guys to provide a discount because I will be posting their logo on my webpage.

I bought a curved 12 inch vane rotor for $47 that's only $94 for 2

and a Billet NDL narrow mount for only $138 that's $276 for 2

All my parts are CNC made and of quality. I am sure someone here can give their opinion on a part they have purchased. Enjoy your Day Juan

[Guest z1 performance]

Juan - just noticed you are in NY, as am I...would you be interested in using my ZX as the mule for the hub kit? We are also close with Chris from ZANY who I know you know.

 

let me know (we are on LI)

 

Adam

[Guest Looking for apt in Alb Ny]

hey adam. i believe we have met before. im aware of someone named mike at z1. i appriciate the offer for the zx. I have a 79 sitting in my garage now. I will be getting to that soon. be good Juan

[Mikelly]

Juan, Contact me offline and I can provide you with a picture of my five lug setup that you can put up on your website and use for advertisement purposes... And I promise I won't come on here and bash you.

 

Again, I applaud you for your efforts...

 

Here is a good idea of what Juan's brake setup will cost you AFTER buying HIS rotor hat adapters and caliper adapters...

 

Calipers from SCP: Dyna LIte 2s are - $101 Each

Superlite2s are - $130 Each

Superlite 3s are - $230

 

Rotors Vary from $44 to $135 depending on the venting, Slots or no, number of vents, if the vents are radial... But if you go with Dynalite2s and the $44 rotor option, all the sudden you have a brake package that costs Less than $600 for light weight calipers on 12.19 inch rotors... VERY good stopping power for minimum cash outlay.

 

My point here guys is that MOST of the members do NOT need the setup I bought from Mike... Not knocking Mike. I was building a top speed open road racer at the time and I got very good brakes from him. The cost was high, but so is the retail cost of THOSE parts... Juan is putting together an option for YOU the HybridZ member to pick and choose what you want. I applaud that since Juan is offering the parts at a VERY FAIR price.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again guys, Nothing wrong with competition in our business. Mike Gibson is a good guy and I've done business with him. I Also LIKE Ross Corrigan. However, if someone wants to start making control arms and selling them, GO FOR IT. Make them cheaper and better? Knock your sox off... Just don't use my pics without my permission. I can see where Mike Gibson was upset oover the use of the pic... However, It is just a matter of time before one of Juan's customers does supply him with one, or he takes one himself...

 

This is free enterprise, Lets not lose site of who wins here... YOU the customer do, Not Ross, Mike Kelly, Mike Gibson, or Juan.

 

Mike Kelly

[Guest z1 performance]

Can anyone give me some insight as to where I can get the aluminum hats and good rotors (prefer drilled and obviously must be vented) for my ZX?

 

I'm gonna get started on this and try to make Juans life a bit easier.

 

As for Mike...yep..we work together!

[Cody 82 ZXT]

Can anyone give me some insight as to where I can get the aluminum hats and good rotors (prefer drilled and obviously must be vented) for my ZX?

 

Adam, thats been the proublem with the ZX brakes set-up's

 

So far I know of two set-ups

 

Mike's http://www.fonebooth.com/brakes_zcar.html

 

and

 

Ross's http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/default.php

 

I have bought items from both and would do so again. They are both about 1000 bucks give or take 100.

 

What I'm hoping is that Juan will be able to provide a similar setup for the 280 ZX as he has for the Z cars. I personally wouldn't mind buying my own other parts as long as the adapters and the rotor hats fit what is out there to buy and fits the ZX perfectly. It doesn't seem all that hard but, what do I know about this type of thing. I'm sure like everything there is more to it than there seems like when you first get into a project. Anything done right takes time.

 

Count me in for the vote for ZX brake kits or parts.

[Jeff]

Het Juan how is the order coming along? Just curious when they might ship. Any pics yet?

[Guest Looking for apt in Alb Ny]

http://www.jskinnovations.com/wilwood.htm

 

Check it out. I hope I am filling everyones expectations. I do plan on doing the the rear setup and also the zx's. In time and with a little more time its no problem. enjoy

[Guest Thurem]

Latest update, Juan has made the kits available on ebay. Check it out.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2421128311&category=33564

I'm still waiting for my kit, but it sure looks killer.

Thure

[Bob_H]

Ok, I might be missing something really big, but when I looked at your site I got really scared with this:

Caliper mounted with prototype caliper bracket. I spent all day trying to figure out the mount. It paid off! Wow I can rest now the setup is complete and everything fits perfect . The caliper bracket is off to be machined. and will be a lot nicer than the one shown above. Again that's the prototype POS. It will be .25 inch thick steel. It does show to be a 2 pieces but the final bracket will be one. I didnt have enough metal to make it a once piece.

.25 inch thick steel to hold the caliper?!?! Front brakes mounts see a lot of stress, and I for one am very concerned with a 1/4 inch thick caliper adapter. Someone like Dan can chime in with some stress analysis, but I'd bet good money 1/4 inch steel is very inadequate for the forces it will see.

Am I missing something?

-Bob

[Guest z1 performance]

I'm waiting on an email/call from Juan to hopefully get started on the setup for my car when he has a chance. My plan is to use a 2 piece AP rotor, around 13.25-13.5 inches, with an AP 4 piston 5200 series caliper...I am hoping that Juan can help me out by making the brackets I'll need, and also helping me source the hats needed.

 

But, since my brakes will be off anyway, if he needs to, Juan can use my car to take the measurements and do the test fit of his setup

[Guest Looking for apt in Alb Ny]

.25 inch steel may sound thin but its actually plenty. I was given this thickness by someone on this board who helped me in building the setup. I also visited a Race shop called Spraker who builds 1000 hp mod boggers and such and they had like .25 inch steel brackets holding on calipers from a very long distance. I did looking into it and was convinced. The brackets pictured on my web page again is the POS one used to get my measurements from and is not .25 inch thick. Thanks Juan

[Guest Thurem]

.25 inch thick steel to hold the caliper?!?! Front brakes mounts see a lot of stress, and I for one am very concerned with a 1/4 inch thick caliper adapter. Someone like Dan can chime in with some stress analysis, but I'd bet good money 1/4 inch steel is very inadequate for the forces it will see.

Am I missing something?

-Bob

 

Bob

If you look at a Wilwood caliber and the way it mounts, it has ears with holes that you bolt to the car. Now these ears are aluminum, which is considerably weaker than steel, and they are only about 11 mm thick (less than 1/2"). My point is that these ears are designed not to break, so steel in a 0.25" (6.35mm) thickness and with the designed in strength, is stronger than the mounting ears on the calibers. This would be all the strength you could ever need, unless you want to use these brackets for something different than mounting brakes, like if you wanted to use them as an anvil they might not cut mustard.

 

Thure

[Bob_H]

I just don't agree.

What you have told us is that by second hand info and an application that doesn't have to repeatedly and abusively use its brakes brought you to .25 inch thickness for the brackets.

I feel very, very strongly about brakes and how anyone who designs a kit for public consumption should have the proper engineering behind it. A "he said and they used it" just doesn't cut it for me and makes me very nervous. Let me expand.

A mudbogger is used for short sprints of a few seconds. It is not critical that it stop every min. for an hours on end, or even the 30-40 some odd times you hit the brakes in a normal trip to the store. Think about just what a Mud bogger is used for and how often it acutally stops....

Now put those brakes on a car used at track events. Now the stress goes up significantly.

I think your idea is great, but the excecution leaves me very nervous. I suggest you look into what AP, Brembo, Baer and other big name brake companies are using for their adapter thickness. I'd be willing to bet you will see it closer to .5 inch or larger...

I'll get Dan to weigh in on this as he is an engineer who does stress analysis for a living.

-Bob

[Guest Looking for apt in Alb Ny]

It is understandable how you feel Bob an I am not to say you are wrong. Personally I felt the same way! But I was convinced and had talked to the guys again that not only build Mod boggers but are involved with NASCAR also. .25 inch thick steel made with proper support is very strong. what about sliding calipers? they are only held with like 12mm pins 10mm pins 2 of them on Hondas. the clamping force is guided on the rotor which makes brackets all much stronger.Its not like the caliper is moving all over the place putting stress in areas where it couldn't handle. Its going in one direction. IM sure you know all of this to bring a good point. Maybe I can send you one and tell me what you think. I was also going to mention about the mounts for the Wildwood calipers which are aluminum and the thinnest part is actually 8mm by 12mm. Now that would be weaker than the .25 inch steel

[Jeff]

the clamping force is guided on the rotor which makes brackets all much stronger.Its not like the caliper is moving all over the place putting stress in areas where it couldn't handle. Its going in one direction.

 

This was my thought as well. The bracket is placed in shear and not bending. In other words you are trying to rip apart a piece of 1/4" steel. I'm glad they are steel, if you look at the Airizona Z Car setup they use an aluminum bracket. They are thicker than 1/4" but aluminum does not have the shear strength of steel. Of course I'm not an engineer and this is just my $0.02 for what it is worth.

[Bob_H]

on Hondas

I think a Honda anything is a very poor comparison to a 12x1.25 inch rotor. The difference in brake torque created by a 12 inch rotor vs a 9 inch or 10 inch rotor on a honda is significant. And to assume shear only assumes the caliper is exactly centered over the rotor. if it is the least bit off center, you are can create a bending moment in the bracket. Remember, it is a bad idea to use stock OEM smaller brakes as a comparison. You need to be looking at other aftermarket 12 inch rotor setups for a good idea of what is required. I'll tell you what, I'll post over on corner-carvers.com to see what some of the engineers there say.

Big thing to consider, whatever thickness you choose, ensure there is no sharp curves or corners.

-Bob

edit speeling...

[CruxGNZ]

I thought the brackets were going to be at the least 3/8". It just makes sense. The point that Bob brought up is what I had visioned in my head (how things work, that is). It's not just shear forces on the caliper bracket, since it will be offset. Juan, I hope you didn't machine these already.

 

!M!

[Pop N Wood]

The Arizona Z car brakes have been around long enough that I think we would have heard about any design deficiencies by now.

 

Brake parts are certainly not something to guess at. But, at the same time aren't the backing plates on rear Z drums just stamped sheet metal?

 

1/4 inch plate may be more than strong enough depending upon the design and how things are attached. I would be more worried about stress points causing cracks at the joints. But who know? Better to error on the side of caution here.

[Drax240z]

The Arizona Z car brakes have been around long enough that I think we would have heard about any design deficiencies by now.

 

I was given this thickness by someone on this board

 

But I was convinced and had talked to the guys again that not only build Mod boggers but are involved with NASCAR also.

 

You know, I was wondering when this was going to happen with the little companies out there making Z parts. Don't get me wrong, I love that people are making aftermarket parts for the Z cars. However, as far as I know none of these companies employs any engineer that can back up their designs at all. Everything is designed on heresay and gut feelings, and while for the most part people have a pretty good idea of what works and what doesn't, consider what happens the first time something fails and someone dies as a result. Consider trying to back up your design in court as a "gut feeling" regardless of your past experience. I can promise you that it won't get you far.

 

For gods sake, if you aren't educated as an engineer, either find someone that is and pay them to clear your parts, or have some physical testing to back up your design. Put them on your own car, document the hell out of the conditions you put them in and the results, and THEN sell them to the public. Same story for brakes, control arms, wheel spacers, whatever. Cutting corners will cost you your livelyhood, or someone else their life.

 

There is a reason why engineers go to school to become engineers. It isn't simply a formality. Juan's 1/4" bracket may or may not be sufficient. But until you consider all cases, know the loads, temperatures, material, vibration, shock loading, etc. I wouldn't set my self up for a big fall by mass producing it.