oil pan choice? - sbc with block huggers/finished exhaust

[timh]

How many of you have made the switch from a stock oil pan to a 7-8 quart oil, had block huggers (didn't redo the exhaust as a result of the new oil pan)? Or just a better built (windage, trap doors, scrapers, etc) stock looking pan.

 

I really don't want to redo the exhaust if I don't have to. There's been a lot of oil pan discussion, but most of it pertains to those who are still building there cars and don't have the exhaust completed.

 

Any comments are welcome. I've read every oil pan post made since 2000. For those of you that have been involved in the hunt for acceptable Road Race / Drag Race pans, what has worked on finished cars?

 

Ideally I'm looking for a 7" sump 7 quart pan that won't interfere with my exhaust, but still has enough oil control for the occasional road race (Hallett) and drag race.

 

Thanks,

 

Tim

[grumpyvette]

order this catalog, they have some exceptionally good deals on oil pans/oil pump/pickup combos

and they have 8 qt oil pans that fit corvettes that have exceptionally tight engine compartments even with full length headers

Ive used over a dozen of their pans over the last few years ,they clear the milodon windage screen fine and don,t leak, the baffles keep oil at the pick-up, they are only 7.5" deep and youll have a really hard time beating the quality for the price

 

 

http://www.midwestmotorsportsinc.com/mms.nsf/CatalogOrder?openform

[timh]

Grumpyvette,

 

I have the catalog, in fact that's where I bought my cam. I grew up in the Ames, IA area, went to ISU too.

 

None of their pans are dimensioned. I can figure out the Kevko's from other sites. Kevko told me that for around $250 they would modify a 1091 to make it a 7" sump and would talk about other modifications.

 

Are these circle track pans going to hold up to Road Racing? If I buy the Midwest Motorsports 7qt claimer and add a milidon windage screen will it be suitable for Road Racing?

 

My guess is I'll have to clearance the kickout on that pan for my exhaust which comes almost straight down from Hooker block huggers. Don't know for sure without some dimensions, so I'll call them.

 

Any other thoughts, mine are too mixed up right now.

[timh]

Spoke with MWM. The guy there was nice enough to measure their 15120 pan. It's 7 1/4" sump depth, the sump is 10 1/2" wide and sticks out approximately 2 1/2" from the side of the pan. I'll be crawling under the car tonight to check that. Maybe. It's going to be 100° this afternoon.

[Mike C]

Hamburgers has a 7" deep road race/oval pan for $199. Should be in the SUmmit catalog.

[pparaska]

I'm in the same position - block hugger headers (wish I had something better - see other threads on that from of late) and I need a PROVEN good pan/pickup setup that controls the oil well in high-g left AND RIGHT turns for the old SBC that will clear those headers and pipes that come down from them and curve back for the exhaust. I'm running the Sanderson CC5 headers that JTR sells.

 

I currently have the old OE Corvette pan from the 60s-70s, and a Z/28 pump, with the correct pickup for this pan installed so that there is 3/8" between the pan and the leading edge of the pickup.

 

My problem is that on tight exit ramps (clover leaf) at high lateral g-loads (Toyo RA-1s - we are talking probably .9+ g's - most people swear we will fly off the road!!!), the oil pressure at 3000rpm starts at 60psi and goes down to 20psi during the turn, returning to 60psi as soon as I straighten out the car. I don't want to do this again at a track even 12-13 July (1.5 months away).

 

I've read through the past posts on this (many of them I participated in) and even what I posted about Jim Biondo using the OE Corvette pan (6 qt, long sump) and him saying that it worked for him on the track doesn't hold true for me.

 

Yes, I am sure I have the right amount of oil in the engine. When I built the engine, I put the pan on, put in 6 quarts of oil, prelubed it thoroughly (got oil coming out of each pushrod/rocker) with a full sized SystemOne filter and then removed the pan on the stand. The oil was basically right at the level of the horizontal baffle in the pan, which is JUST below the Milodon diamond scraper that I put at a high location, very near the crank but high enough to clear the pan baffle. So If I put more oil in the engine, it may well have the crank dipping into the oil.

 

I know, I could get an accusump, and some say go dry sump.

 

Since my track day is only 1.5 months away, I would like to just bolt on a known good pan/pickup. Sure, a dry sump would be great, but time, money and the unknown of will that work on the street without being a PITA are an issue. An accusump seems like an expensive band-aid to a problem that a good pan/pickup would solve. I've read on some forums that people use up the oil pressure in the accusump during long turns and this is why they go to dry sump.

 

I have the Canton 15-240 pan, but it won't fit with blockhuggers. I don't want to get into hacking this thing up either. Canton makes a 15-244 pan for the F-body, and it looks like it will fit since the sump is shorter front to back, but it's 7.5" deep. I'd like to have no more than 7" deep. I suppose I could see how quickly they could make one for me that has less depth, or live with the reduced clearance for a while. My confidence that Canton made this pan work well on RR F-bodies is high. So I'm thinking it's the safest bet.

 

I've looked at photos of the RR hamburger pan, and I'm not impressed. The sump is wide open left to right, no baffles or doors in that direction, like the Canton RR pans have. Other pans I've looked at don't seem to really address the left and right oil control well. The Canton RR 15-240 seems to be a proven design - too bad it won't fit.

 

Any other options for PROVEN good RR pans that control the oil well in high-g turns, will fit with block huggers and not hang more than 7" below the block?

 

TIA,

[Trevor]

eBay item #400124134337

[pparaska]

That's a Hamburger Dry Sump pan. I suppose it might fit, but I'm really wondering if someone has found a WET SUMP pan that will fit the bill...

[Mikelly]

Pete, Here's the real problem... And I'm not trying to start a pissing contest with anyone in this thread, but this has been my experience:

 

Unless you're tracking your car, a lot, you're not going to "see" what you're now noticing. You are seeing it because you're aware and concerned. Most guys don't notice it because their eyes are glued to the road and what they're doing. I've seen this a number of times in cars from Miatas, to BMWs, to porsches, and anything else with 4 wheels. As an instructor I have time on my hands in the passenger seat to observe the driver and what his car is doing... You'd be surprised at how few novice students can drive and scan the gages at the same time...

 

I honestly don't think that you're going to find a wet sump setup that is sufficient as a "be all/ end all" correction for your current issues. Your motor and suspension/tire combo is enough to cause the cavetation you're seeing. And I don't think the Canton accusump (which I also have) will be sufficient to combat the problem repeatedly.

 

If all works well we'll have both our Zs there at the event on the 12-13th and we'll get to see how my cheapie CHAMP pan works with all the bells and whistles (crankscraper/windage tray/trapdoors/hi-vol pump/accusump/oilcooler).

 

As soon as I get the car debugged I'm going to start building the LS1 and use Mark Icard's drysump setup on that power plant. I'm done chasing Chevy oiling issues. Heck, all the T1 racers running in SCCA have the same problems unless they upgrade to the drysump. Thats why most of them are lucky to get a season out of the motors.

 

Mike

 

That's a Hamburger Dry Sump pan. I suppose it might fit, but I'm really wondering if someone has found a WET SUMP pan that will fit the bill...

Edited May 30, 2010 by Mikelly

[pparaska]

Mike, I understand that a wet sump is probably not going to be the BEST solution. But I'm after a "good enough" solution.

 

If you read on speedtalk.com, you'll find a post where Reher Morrison designed a Road Race Pan for the BBC that worked well enough for them to win racing with the big boys. Moroso makes it for them, but they sell it with a pump and pickup on the Reher Morrison site.

 

Their testing showed that what you need is NOT a pan with "bat wings" in the sump, but a pan that is narrow at the bottom. This makes sense when you think about it - why give the oil a place to travel to laterally if you want it in one area to suck up with the pump? Doors apparently don't seal well enough to keep the oil contained around the pickup. Billet Specialties makes a wet sump pan that uses balls that roll to shut off the oil flow. Maybe this works better.

"scotth@moroso.com" (Scott Hall) can be found on the yellowbullet forum saying he thinks they could design a pan for the SBC with the same type of design. That was back in Sept 09. I will get on the phone and talk to him soon about this...

 

The issue is getting the oil to the pickup AND KEEPING IT THERE. A baffle above the pickup seeps to be as important as many other things.

 

My biggest issue is how to run a dry sump on the street, without having to worry about heating the oil tank, priming after sitting for a week, etc. I bet someone has designed a system that's streetable, but I don't have time right now to deal with it... I've thought a hybrid wet/dry system may be the answer, but that'd be a huge R&D effort as well.

 

I just will not accept that the 50+ years of road racing the SBC has not seen a solution to doing a wet sump design that will work for me. My car doesn't corner with as much lateral (acceleration or braking) g's as a road race corvette from the 60s. There must have been some satisfactory designs for a wet sump system that worked. Not everyone ran a dry sump, from what I can find.

 

I was wondering about the Aviaid wet sump pan. They have a long history in RR oil pans, from what I've read. Here's at least one anecdotal post that shows the Aviaid doing better than the Canton pan on a Ford 289 (scroll to post #17): http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204618&page=2

 

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about - this is an OLD problem. It's been worked at for decades. It must have suitable solutions (wet sump road racing oil control).

Edited June 7, 2010 by pparaska