Guest bigjim240z Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 i just was checking out a web sight that has a turboed 302 mustang running a carb..he had an intercooler and was showing hp levels around 500-600hp..i was thinking about installing a 350 cevy engine in my 240z and building a similar turbo setup....single turbo running through a nice size intercooler and into a carb..whatta ya think?...kinda like a grand national v6 setup but on a v8...i know it might be a little overkill but i feel you can never have enough hp...give me some opinions..thanks jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 I've always had trouble with the idea of a blow-thru carb setup. Carbs were designed to work best with vacuum, not pressure. Just my .02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kc6wfs Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 I'll keep ya posted. I am in the next few months going to TT my V8. Get the books 21st Century Turbo and Maxium Boost There are a few others out there but these are the best for blow through.. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 You'll need to change floats to nitryl so they don't get squashed by the pressure, reference the throttleshafts to manifold pressure so it doesn't spit gas out of the throttle shafts and have some sort of additional enrichenment like the guy did on the budget twin turbo, an extra injector (cold start injector, just on no pulsing) turned on by the boost (pressure switch), you'll need to get your timing closer to 22-25 deg max so you'll need to probably put some sort of stop on the advances to limit it to that range so it doesn't ping real bad and self distruct. Thats about all the research I have on it right now. Part of the problems can be reduced by putting the carb in a box, this pressurizes everything evenly so nothing will leak, but you still have to put in the nitryl floats. I'm told you'll want to mill off the choke horn and choke as well so as not to disrupt the flow coming in. Thats just a few things I was able to find out, its not a easy deal to do, but it is a tad cheaper if your not injected yet (although no where near as good, your never going to have a smooth fuel delivery with this setup). Let us know how it works out if you go that route, I'm on the fence, I'd love to have a turbo quickly, but on the other hand without fuel injection I'm not sure if I'd like it or not. I'm working at doing my own EFI, I'll probably save a little coin, mostly it'll be a learning experience I'm sure. Awww, so much stuff to add on the car and so little money, or is that time, nah mostly money.. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 It seems that the forced induction that does work blowing through a carb is one that uses a complete enclosure that the carb is mounted in so the only pressure differential is in the venturi where it should be. They are expensive and leak prone, however. IMO, I wouldn't waste any money doing a turbo WITHOUT fuel injection. Until the OEM switched to FI on their turbos, none of them were worth a darn. FI changed all of that in the early '80s, especially with the Buick GN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 Might want to check out this old thread. http://www.hybridz.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002237 Rambles through several different topics, but does express numerous opinions concerning FI/carbs in a boosted set up. You may contact 1fastZ, he seems pretty knowledgeable on the topic. But I think your basic question was just the idea of a turbo V8 in a Z. Like you said, seems a bit overkill but man, you would be awesome!!! Have seen quite a bit of discussion of this in old threads. There will be an issue of space in the Z, especially with a twin turbo, but probably nothing unworkable. A number of people have stated that the Ford guys like boost because it is the only way they can be competative with a NA 350 Chevy (One over the bow, guys!) If you turbo a 350 cid, then plan on big mods to the drivetrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 Yeah, unless you can fab it yourself, the carb enclosure kit is amazingly expensive. How much? Well I don't want to say the guy is expensive, but I priced a carb enclosure with its associated hardware to mount it and the reply I got back from Banks was near 2k for a damn blow thru carb container. Now I may not know whats so trick about it to make it worth that sort of money, maybe it has a blowoff valve in the case I donno, but I suspect: A) Its by banks so it cost bank Its a low volume part, so they're trying to get back some of they're tooling cost from the few that will buy it. Thats alot of dough, granted its a beautiful cast alum box with banks on it etc, but still, thats pricey. I'd settle for a bent up aluminum box for 1/10th the price. Leakage can be a problem, but less so these days with the good sealants IMHO, they'll leak generally around where the fuel line goes into the box and also around the linkage, RTV around those should stop that cold though. I don't think its overkill really unless your looking to make way over 500hp. (and some folks will say why bother, you can do that N/A on a chevy real easy but...) To me its the best solution, mild idling V8 with ballsy torque, and waiting just a gas pedal inches away is a snarling beast ready to lay some whoopass on someone bigtime. Traction will be limited, but it is for N/A V8 Z's as well. Twin's will require a real head scratch, they'll go up front, but they'll be wall to wall at the front of the motor and thats just with a cursory glance at the engine bay. Twin's will fit, but I'd hate to be the plumber.. My plan if I ever get to carry it out, is to recoup the battery area, put my Optima battery in the back and use the battery box room for a nice big single turbo. This will make the run to the intercooler rather long, but workable IMHO. Oh well, glad to see there are others that want to see a Turbo V8 in one. (I know others have done it already, I saw one that was from Bonneville for speed records), but no one I know that will give us useful info on the fitting into a Z. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utvolman99 Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 You know, I really like the idea of a turbo sbc but it would seem to me that the cons out weigh the pros. Something I have been thinking about for down the road is a super charger. Vortech has a new universal Carburated supercharger that I think looks really sweet! Here is a link... Vortech My engine is about 9.4:1 static compression so I would need an intercooler if I decided to go this way. Im not sure that Vortech offers one. Im am however pretty sure that ATI has an intercooled sbc system. What do you guys think of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 With all the references to the Buick GN, why not just do one . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 I gotta agree with Scottie on this one. I was drawn to the GN side from all Scotties stories and exploits...to the point where I asked his assitance in locating a complete setup for me, it was only luck (I think it was), that I stumbled across the LT1 and T56 for a price that I just couldn't pass up, and it was very local. If I had not found that deal, I would definitely be wrenching on GN-T instead of a V8. I would say that if you haven't sourced an engine yet, and you wanna play with boost, go down Scottie's road. BTW....Scottie, thanks for all the assistance, hope I didn't waste too much of your time. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Perry Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 I've been considering a budget twin turbo setup. I'm thinking stock low compression 350 longblock, with shorty headers and some pipe to feed a pair of T25s or T3s in front of the engine, blowing through a 750 holley ina sealed box. Something to note is you need a pressure compensated fuel pressure regulator. I recommend an electic pump with a return system placed close to or maybe even in the box. I'm tempted to do this because of how cheaply a pair of proper turbos can be had out of old cars (I've found a couple production applications that should work for up to 400 horses), and when coupled with a cheap stock longblock it should make good power for low cost. I have some experience designing turbo applications so I should be able to make it work, and I've always wondered if we need to spend so much money on a strong small block if all most people run is 300 to 400 horses. And hey, If I blow a piston to smitherines it'll make a good paperweight/conversation piece and I can sleep well knowing I didn't spend much $ on it. Perry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 As an added sidelight to the turbo idea - be sure to use an LT-1 and not an LS-1 if you are planning to boost the engine. Ford found out the hard way that the aluminum block tends to deform under high boost and went back to the iron block for the new HO Cobra. You also would really want an engine with a compression ratio down around 8 - 8.5:1 if you are going to boost. Compression ratios higher than that limit the boost pressures, and resultant HP, that you can achieve without detonation (also known as dieseling. Phantom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 Well basically its a good idea (the above supercharger) but I don't see how its different outside of setup. A centrifugal supercharger is just a turbo with the exhaust side gear driven, only it uses HP to run the pump. I personally don't like the noise they make, it sounds like tearing fabric, whereas the turbojet sound I like alot. I WOULD take one if the price were right, but the JY turbo is still IMHO much much cheaper. A guy could do twin eaton superchargers pretty easily with the right brackets/manifold setup. Anyway, the bottomline is I think we both agree that forced induction is pretty cool. Would I go GN, sure if I could have had more time to put it in my car and had the extra capital for all of its required pieces. I guess its a fairly quick combination I guess... Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utvolman99 Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 Lone, the only reason I would go with the SC over the turbo is that the SC is a bolt on kit. Also, you could still gain 30-40% HP without an intercooler. I think that even if I were going to turbo my car I would still look into the vortech pressure box for the carb. It looks like a real nice unit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utvolman99 Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 Oh and Vortech also has the new stelth blowers that you wouldnt be able to hear over most 350s! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 You might want to try searching for a 460 tbird/ltd? twin turbo i saw on the web. He built it mainly from recycled parts (a few goodies throughn in) I think he was pushing around 400-500hp! talk about a sleeper!!! He and his buddies are hp for cheap dudes!!! Ingeneius idea!!!! Too bad my computor crashed and I lost all the links I had soorrrry! If the problems were solved with the 350 turbo I think it would be the way to go but I agree at looking at a efi (tbi?) insted of the carb cause i remember hearing early horror stories of a turbo blowing to the front half of the v8 because of the throttle blades directing flow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 Would I go GN, sure if I could have had more time to put it in my car and had the extra capital for all of its required pieces What required pieces do you think you would need? Just like we advise folks wanting to do a 1st-gen/L28ET swap to get a donor car, I advice folks to find a complete Buick drivetrain with harness. You have to fab engine mount brackets, a tranny crossmember (I believe the JTR would work), driveshaft, shifter, I/C and exhaust. The engine harness is completely independent. Nothing that should put fear in the eyes of a competent hybridZer, and nothing out of the ordinary. Sounds less complex than trying to develop a turbo system for a SBC. Once you get pass the initial expense of the drivetrain and install, you spend very little thereafter extracting more HP. Tim, no problem. I am here to help anyone who needs it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 The Turbo 350 project would be cool. But for many of our uses, having a 350 with 15 psi of intercooled boost may be more than many want or could use. My feeling is that a high efficiency axial blower or a Eaton (Magnuson) blower providing 10psi without an intercooler on a 400 hp small block would give you about 560 flywheel hp, and be very tractable around town. And you'd not have to deal with some of the heat, plumbing, controls issues a turbo would have. Of course, plumbing the intake to the rear of the SC may cause a few headaches of it's own. And you'd almost have to go with EFI to get it to work. But this needs to be compared with a probably a bit more HP from a 10psi turbo setup on a SBC. That said, Scottie is making tons of torque (like 500 ft-lbs?) at the starting line with his near stock GN setup. That's and incredible power to weight ratio in a light Z and probably unbeatable in the US for a bang for the buck setup! I'd love to have another Z with a GN setup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 I didn't mean to make the GN sound like extra hassle or that it was prohibitively expensive to do. What pieces? I was talking all the stuff to make it run, intercooler, plumbing and having chips burnt to tune the thing, I know you had several attempts at burning them till they're right. (and yeah I know much of the same thing will need to be found for a V8 turbo, but I hope to at least be able to tune it myself with software). If a guy can get all that from the donor which I assume you can, then great, I personally didn't have the time to run it all down and availability wasn't extremly high from the wrecker. That was the point I was trying to make. Your right its not any different than a LT1 swap or anything else, its just having the time and money to aquire all you need before you begin. As to why build a fuely/turbo system, its just something I want to do, I may not save much money (although I'm confident I can save a couple C notes at least), but I'll learn alot and for me thats more important than bolting on something and not understanding it. Also just so I can say, yeah I did that (as we stand around half track with what used to be a motor but is now some sort of molten block of steel). Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utvolman99 Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 Here you guys go. hot off the Ebay presses!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1832952869 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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