good stiff street suspension? need help and opinions

[Guest Joe017]

hey,

 

1-i have a '72 240z and i am still running off stock suspension. very soft and my tires rub the wheel wel when i hit a decent size dip. that is not my main concern.

 

2-my main conern is a good stiff well handling suspension. i odnt want my car rocking back-n-forth on fast passed turns etc. if anyone has a street race setup for their z i would love to hear your set-up is like. thanks

[Guest thinkmonkey]

I am in the process of the rebuilding my entire suspension this week. First I ordered the master bushings kit from suspension.com and new ball joints and tie rod ends with the steering joints. I also got new bearings, seals, and u-joints. I haven't quite gotten rear torn down as of yet, so there are more wearable parts to replace. I am going with coilovers all around, and I think that the Modern Motorsports is a good value for the money. Just section the tubes and reweld, the weld on collar. You could instead go with a better spring/strut package than stock to lower the car and stiffen it. You may need to section the strut housings to retain suspension travel. Most important is to get new poly bushings all around, stiffer springs and shocks, and a stiffer sway bar front and rear. You could get into brakes, LSD's, geometry, sandblasting, etc... but that leads you down the lonely road of Snowball that I have been traveling for a year and a half...

 

-David

[Guest Joe017]

thanks for your input. im very interested in how your project turns out. anyone else have suspention suggestions?

[Tim240z]

If you don't need the adjustability and space savings of the coilovers, then just get some lowering springs. Less work and usually give about 25% stiffer rate.

do some surfing through this forum and you'll find plenty of info on both setups.

Tim

[auxilary]

get msa lowering springs (or tokico lowering springs) that are a bit stiffer, along with some new struts (kyb or tokico blue). replace your bushings with polyurethane. get new balljoints and tie rods

 

bushings kit - 136 from summit

balljoints + tierods - about 160

springs - $180

[Guest ON3GO]

well i havent tired mine out as im still doing it.

but are you planing to run wide wheels?

if so the coilovers are ur jesus.

i bought my suspension before i even knew what wheels and tire package i was getting but i knew i wanted wide wide wheels, with the smallest flares you can get.

i run 8in coilovers from Modern Motorsports.

spring rate is 225 front, 250 rear.. some ppl say its to stiff but i love a stiff ride, and some ppl say ill need a roll bar along with this setup but i dont see why.. i do want one though.

get some thicker sway bars.

new bushings big time!

and get some nice struts... i have the tokico illumina 5-way adjustable and like i said i never tired my suspension yet but the parts seem great and im figuring its gonna be a sweet street/race setup.

only thing im missing is sway bars and strut bars which i plan to get this month.

but like i said if you dont plan on running wide wheels and tires then you dont need coilovers. like Tim and Aux said would be good!

 

mike

[blueovalz]

I second AUX, but would add that an increased size from the OEM sway bar will be just about all you'll want or need in addition to his input. I've used the 1-1/8" front and 7/8" rear, but I did develop cracks in the frame rail over the front sway bar mounts. I assume it was because of the very stiff bar. A 1" will work well, but then you'd need a smaller than 7/8" rear (or wider tires in back) My combo was a neutral as I've ever seen in a car.

[260DET]

Generally the best approach with a Z is to go up with the spring rates but not with the sway bars. Heavier than OE sway bars will destroy your ride quality quicker than anything, except perhaps the replacement of the stock spring top insulators with something solid.

 

With suitable uprated springs and poly bushed stock sway bars, check out the various stock sway bars available, you are on your way to having a firm handling and reasonably comfortable car.

[Guest thinkmonkey]

Has anyone replaced the strut/spring rubber insulator with a solid/poly one? Just curious, I was planning on reusing my old one.

 

-David

[auxilary]

if you know anyone that has a Z with camber plates welded in, have them take you for a ride to find out how stiff the ride is without the shock tower insulators. It's quite a bit stiffer - definitely a more jittery ride

 

terry: i assumed the original poster wanted a streetable daily driver on a budget, so I skipped the swaybars

[JMortensen]

Just to give the opposing view here, I drove my Z with 200 in/lb springs in front and 250 in/lb in back, camber plates, TC rods with rod ends, front control arms with rod ends, sway bars, G Machine bushings in back and poly bushings everywhere else on the street as a daily driver for 3+ years. I did turn my Tokicos down to 1 when on the street, but everyone who rode in it only complained of noise, not a rough ride. A couple of times after an autocross I forgot to switch the struts back, and that was brutal, I admit.

 

My setup is way more extreme than most would consider for street driving, but I did it for a long time, and still drive the car to autocrosses (haven't gone in awhile though). I think stiffer sway bars are a must if you're going to drive it hard...

 

Jon

[auxilary]

i have 200lb springs all around, 1" front swaybar, pu bushings, and tokico illuminas. with tokicos set on 1-3, daily driving is manageable, some bumps a bit stiff. at 5, it's not pleasant one bit! it all depends on the person though.

[260DET]

Just to give the opposing view here' date=' I drove my Z with 200 in/lb springs in front and 250 in/lb in back, camber plates, TC rods with rod ends, front control arms with rod ends, sway bars, G Machine bushings in back and poly bushings everywhere else on the street as a daily driver for 3+ years. I did turn my Tokicos down to 1 when on the street, but everyone who rode in it only complained of noise, not a rough ride. A couple of times after an autocross I forgot to switch the struts back, and that was brutal, I admit.

 

My setup is way more extreme than most would consider for street driving, but I did it for a long time, and still drive the car to autocrosses (haven't gone in awhile though). I think stiffer sway bars are a must if you're going to drive it hard...

 

Jon[/quote']

 

Ride quality is very subjective of course, but with the stock spring top insulators retained, Koni shocks and tyres no less than around 55 profile, up to 300lb springs (depending on the weight of the car) can still give a reasonable ride. Providing the sway bars are no more than stock in size.

 

IMHO we are conditioned to think that big sway bars are a must for good handling but in my own experience and that of others I've spoken with whose opinion I respect, this is not the case.

[Guest Joe017]

HEY EVERYONE! thanks your so much for all your input! about ride comfot. that is not a big deal to me.... yes my car is a daily driver but i dont car about a bumpy ride.... i want my z to be able to rip around turns and be very stable.

 

 

260DET - my car is 2,400 lbs. if that helps at all.

 

once again thanks a lot.. suspension is not my strong point. one more question. would i need coilovers with a 10 inch wide wheel front and back? (no flares)

[majik16106]

I think the sway bar issue depends on the car. The Z is a different animal than some other cars. The sway bar does make a street driven Z pretty rough. But I couldnt of lived without a big aftermarket one on my old supra. My z has one as well, and to be honest i really dont mind it. I love the stiffer car feeling, constantly reminding me what I built it for. before I went to my big ass wheels, I had tmc springs and kyb struts, and they worked great for the street, but then i bought big wheels, so I moved to coil overs out of necessity, so instead of using a stiffer tokico strut, i kpet the Kyb's, and its turned out to work very well on the street. I may switch out for the adj. tokico's later as i start to race more, but for now it workes fine. But new Tie rod ends, ball joints, and Poly bushings are a must in my opinion. as for the noise... doesnt a good system fix that? if its a street car.. its gotta have a good stereo right?

[260DET]

The problem in making specific recommendations is that both the cars I've been involved with are reengined and so don't have the same weight distribution, etc as a standard Z. However, with good shocks, the original spring top insulators retained, stock anti roll bars and tyres no less than a 55 profile, I'd be looking at trying two 250lb springs and two 275's on yours. Put the 275's on the front first and try it, if you don't like that put them on the rear.

 

It is all very subjective but if you're prepared to experiment and note the results of each change you will end up with what you want, eventually. Another benefit of the heavy springs route is that both nose dive under heavy braking and squat under heavy acceleration will not be a problem. Sway bars of course have no effect on those two conditions.

 

Then when it is finally sorted you may wish to tell us all about it.

[Guest LedFoot]

I'm not 100% about this but I've heard from some suspension specilaists/gurus that it is better to use OE rubber on all the bushings except for the sway bars.

 

The reason behind this is that ruber bushings are designed to give a little so that the stress is not passed back into the bodywork. I have some friends here in Australia with Commodores that put poly bushes everywhere, torn the mounts off at the welds during cornering because the bushes have no give, then after getting it fixed going to the setup I just described.

 

My understanding is that you use really good shocks and springs (Koni yellow and Eibach or King Springs) you can get fantastic grip (without bone the shaking ride!) and then after driving it for a couple of weeks decide if you don't like the roll to fix it up with well chosen sway bars. They also told me that suspension is all about getting grip, a really hard solid ride that bounces around won't give you that.

 

How do you guy's feel about that? Am I on to the right track?

[Guest Nic-Rebel450CA]

I have a 70Z with a 280 engine so my Z is pretty close to stock as far as weight, etc. I am not sure what I have for front suspension, but I believe in the rear I have Eibach adjustable coil-overs. I wasnt too happy with the setup that I have until just recently when I tried bringing the rear springs up just a tad further and this made a dramatic change. The car handles like a dream through the curves. And plants the tires quite well when taking off and does not fall on it's face during hard braking or fly back during acceleration. (I used to have trouble with it mushing out in the back going around turns due to the weight transferring too much).

 

I believe my tires are a 55 series, but I can double-check to confirm. I will also try to confirm exactly what springs, etc. I have.

 

As mentioned, the car handles very well, but it is also pretty nice as far as how it rides. It seems to be quite smooth over bumps, rises, and falls in the street, but, unfortunately, is very sharp in the rear when it hits a pot-hole or similar.

[260DET]

Thats about it LedFoot, except use poly strut bar/tension rod pads. With the sway bars there are several OE choices available which IMHO are all you need, although the heavier aftermarket Superpro brackets are better than the OE ones so you can then use the wider Superpro poly bushes as well.

[Guest LedFoot]

Thanks 260DET, I feel like I'm finally starting to get on the right track with planning my suspension. I heard exactly the same thing about using poly bushes on the swaybars. After all they don't really transfer shock, only torsion. The suspension of that bar would come through the bending moment.

 

I've had a 260z 2+2 for about 2 years now and decided to finally get serious about getting a well built zed up there. So I've just bought a rolling shell of a good friend who basically did all the panel work.

 

I've done quite a bit of research because I want to plan the final outcome completely so I don't end up spending money where it doesn't need to be spent.

 

One of things that is really stumping me is, and I know people have asked this question many times before because I've trolled through the posts!,

 

But what are the widest tires that can be fit to a 74 260z with smaller diameter coilovers if I don't want to flare or roll the guards. (Front and Back)

 

Once I know this then I can really start planning what size rims I want, spacers, brake rotors etc. etc. Even if there is a post that any of you know of that explains this simply then just point me in the right direction and I apologise for not finding it earlier!