Mikelly Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Remember that little lovely deal I got on that 383 Stroker back in 1998?? You know, All really nice stuff with aluminum heads, Vic Jr. intake, Hydraulic roller valve train??? Yea, Just got a call from the machine shop... The Kmotion springs were the wrong size and should never have been put in the heads... Not to mention the valve seals were the wrong ones. That, coupled with the wrong bolts, the piston and other related issues... I'm pretty pissed... Overall, the deal wasn't worth what I paid, and I just think back to all the comments and warnings from others. I would never buy a crate motor from Bowtie Performance in Britsol, Va again. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synlubes Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Are you talking about the motor hanging on your engine stand now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 18, 2003 Author Share Posted November 18, 2003 Nope... the motor on thestand now is the remnants left over from the other motor... All we're using from that build is the block, cam and heads... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN BE SURE WHAT DOES GO INTO YOUR ENGINE IS TO BUILD IT YOURSELF! I have NEVER dealt with an engine /machine shop that would not substitute cheaper parts or overlook machine work, of forget to check clearances if you let them get away with it, or bill you for partly done work if they thought they could get away with it! trust me on this, YOU NEED TO VERIFY EACH AND EVERY CLEARANCE,WITH YOUR OWN TOOLS/MICS.DEGREE WHEEL,DIAL,INDICATOR,ETC> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Didn't Pete buy his 406 from the same guy? How did his turn out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 20, 2003 Author Share Posted November 20, 2003 Time out... This is NOT the same engine builder that I currently am using... This issue deals with the toothless wonders in Tennessee... Dave Williams is the guy Pete and I use now and I'd recommend him to anyone... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Geek Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN BE SURE WHAT DOES GO INTO YOUR ENGINE IS TO BUILD IT YOURSELF! I have NEVER dealt with an engine /machine shop that would not substitute cheaper parts or overlook machine work' date=' of forget to check clearances if you let them get away with it, or bill you for partly done work if they thought they could get away with it! trust me on this, YOU NEED TO VERIFY EACH AND EVERY CLEARANCE,WITH YOUR OWN TOOLS/MICS.DEGREE WHEEL,DIAL,INDICATOR,ETC>[/quote'] AMEN !!! Jim C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia Flash Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 That is good advice if you know what you are doing with all those micrometers and such. But some of us would not know what to do once on the inside of a block and so therefore WE must place our trust in the so called professionals out there good or bad. What is nice though is we have a site like this that folks can use to report bad shops and so forth so somebody else doesn't get ripped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 check list http://www.chevytalk.org/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=581940&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1 tool list A set of quick release tools for late model gm fuel lines and a/c line disconnects. ACETYLENE TORCH ADJUSTABLE LENGTH PUSH ROD ADJUSTABLE POINTER , Adjustable stand, for dial indicator Assorted pliers/vise grips Air compressor Air ratchet Allen wrenches ASK QUESTIONS ASSORTED FILES ASSORTED SOCKETS,OPEN AND BOX WRENCHES 1/2",3/8".1/4" DRIVE Ball joint press tools Ball joint separator forks Battery charger(full size shop type) Bench grinder w/ wire wheel Big huge screwdriver which doubles as a pry bar BORE GAUGE Brake spring pliers and retaining spring tool CAM BEARING INSTALLER CAM DEGREE WHEEL CAM HANDLE CARBIDE BURRS CC Buret Kit/PLUS STAND Checking springs chisels (assorted sizes/types) clamp for compressing calipers CLUTCH PILOT Coil spring compressors Compression tester COMMON SENSE CRANK SOCKETS Creeper Crows feet CYLINDER HONE DENT PULLER DEPTH GAUGE Dial indicator, Die grinder Differential Set-up Kit Distributor wrench DRIFT PUNCHES (assorted sizes/types) Drain pans all sizes Dremel tool set to cut rivets etc. DRILL PRESS Drop light (florescent preferred) Dwell meter for the older cars EASY OUTS ELECTRIC SOLDER GUN Electrical tape Engine hoist ENGINE LEVELER ENGINE STAND Feeler Gages FIRE EXTINGUISHER Flexible dwell key for point distributors FREEZE PLUG INSTALLER FUEL PRESSURE GAUGE Full set of assorted hammers all the way up to 5 lb hand held full set of tap and dies metric and standard Full set of torqze tip screw drivers and sockets male and female all sizes Full size vice Gasket scraper Gear Pullers GM disk brake caliper Allen key 3/8 and 5/16 Grease gun Harmonic balancer puller HARMONIC BALLANCER INSTALLER HONING STONE Jack stands and a 2 1/2 -3 ton full size service floor jack JEWELERS FILES LAPTOP COMPUTER Leakdown tester LIFTER BORE HONE LIFTER GROOVE TOOL LUIS TOOL Magnet MAGNETIC PICK UP TOOL MAGNIFYING GLASS MANUAL LUBE PUMP MICROMETERS MIG WELDER Mini Valve Spring Tester MIRROR Multimeter Normal screwdrivers all sizes NUT SPLITTER OIL CAN Oil filter and regular spin on filter wrenches. Oil filter wrench Oil Pump Primers ONE NEW SOLID LIFTER PB BLASTER OIL Pipe cutter PISTON RING COMPRESSOR Piston stop, Pitman arm puller Plasma cutter PLASTIC HAMMER Pneumatic chisel Pneumatic impact guns 3/8 and 1/2 drive Pressure bleeder for brakes PRY BAR PUSHROD CHECKER Putty knife Ramps Rear caliper piston turning tool REFERENCE MANUALS RIFLE CLEANING ROD AND BRUSHES FOR OIL PASSAGES Ring expander pliers RING GAP FILER Rochester idle mixture adjusting tool ROD BOLT GUIDES ROD BOLT STRETCH GAUGE SCAN SOFTWARE Sledge or mall hammer SMALL FLASH LIGHT Snap ring pliers internal and external SPRING COMPRESSOR Standard set of drift pin punches,alignment punches,[censored] and centering punches. Steering column lock plate compressor Steering wheel puller Stethoscope STUD INSTALLER TAPE MEASURE Test light Three or four of every size socket and wrenches Timing light Tire Pressure Gauges TORQUE WRENCH Transmission jack Tubing cutter Tubing flare tool Tubing bender Utility knife VACUUM GAUGE Wire crimper Wheel chocks (keep cars from rolling) GOOD KNOWLEDGEABLE FRIENDS Other things to keep handy -------------------------------------------------- Gasket scraper battery charger Plasma cutter Drill press Allen wrenches 12pt sockets Deep sockets Impact sockets Compressor Retracting extension cord Safety glasses Bench grinder w/ wire wheel Die grinder Wire crimper Valve spring compressor Breaker bar Distributor wrench Taps & dies Oil filter wrench Line wrenches Crows feet Shorty wrenches Tire iron Cutting torch FIRE EXTINGUISHER Throw-away vinyl gloves Plastic zip-lock bags Permanent marker Duct tape Electrical tape Torque wrench Oil pump primer Speed wrench Carburetor stand Tire pressure gauge Compression gauge Sandblaster Paint gun Utility knife Transmission jack Mallet Stethoscope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. G. Olphart Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Nice list Grumpyvette... Do you know where I may acquire a few more ounces of Common Sense? Experience has established that I could use a bit more of it once in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 The 406 shortblock (still on the stand) that I had built was built by the same guy that did Mike's CURRENT shortblock. I was looking for a std bore 400 2-bolt block, and this guy had one. I've known him for years and trust his work. He has his own balance machine and is anal retentive about engine work like I am. If he had not given me the price HE came up with independently, I would have built it myself. He can get parts much cheaper than me and his machine rates and those of other places he uses in Arkansas are MUCH cheaper than I can get locally. $1600 included: HIS 400 2-bolt "509" hi-nickel block, std bore (Clean, clean, clean - this guy says he spends almost as much time cleaning the stuff as checking specs!) New brass freeze plugs and oil plugs New Scat 9000 crank (3.75" stroke) Clevite bearings New CAT I-beam rods with ARP bolts (6.00") Hand grind all rods for clearance to Crane 114681 cam Probe 17cc dish forged pistons Bored and honed to .002" clearance (min recommended by Probe) Grant rings, file fit to recommended specs in each bore Zero Deck block (all deck heights within .004" of each other) Fully balanced pistons, rods, crank (no heavy metal needed) to within 1/2 gram Inspect, deburr, measure, correct all parts Degree cam (using timing set and new cam I supplied) Full builid book included, with all clearances, measurements, bob weights, and other blueprint info included (hard and soft copy). There's no way I could buy the parts and have the machine work done for that price. If it turns out to be a $1600 POS, I'll be very surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Pete, That's a screaming good deal! I bought an Eagle rotating assembly and installed everything at my Buddy's shop(he's a Mechanic). The rotating assembly was already balanced and I had a friend of his do all the block work for 150 bucks. My other friend sold me a fluid Damper for the stroker motor for 75 bucks as he's not going stroker anymore. It's cheap that way. Always love a great deal. Congratulations and good luck! By the way that motor is going to scream. Also after driving your car around with a little 327 your going to freak out when you put your foot into it. Bring plenty of underwear Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Geek Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 That is good advice if you know what you are doing with all those micrometers and such. But some of us would not know what to do once on the inside of a block and so therefore WE must place our trust in the so called professionals out there good or bad. What is nice though is we have a site like this that folks can use to report bad shops and so forth so somebody else doesn't get ripped. No time like the present to begin learning. As someone else stated "knowledgeable freinds" are the most valuable tool. Cheers !!! Jim C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 That is good advice if you know what you are doing with all those micrometers and such. But some of us would not know what to do once on the inside of a block and so therefore WE must place our trust in the so called professionals out there good or bad. What is nice though is we have a site like this that folks can use to report bad shops and so forth so somebody else doesn't get ripped. I agree with Jim C. I'm no genius, but after reading a 1970 Chevrolet overhaul manual about 6 times, and studying "How to HOTROD Small-Block Chevys" at the age of 17, I rebuilt my first 327. I borrowed some micrometers and snap gages, and blueprinted the bottom end. I reused the pistons and put new rings in. Had the heads done, added a 600 Holley, etc. and that engine ran for at least the 50,000 miles that I was aware of it (engine got sold). It's pretty simple stuff, just alot of attention on cleanliness and being careful. Mike (zfan):I keep getting told that my Z will really wake up with the 406. I hope so, as the 327 is just ho-hum to me now. I'm hoping that the 406 scares me, since the 327 doesn't. I was wishing for more at the NHIS track day - sure it pulled strong, but I'd love some more torque coming off the corners. The Toyo RA-1s were never abused by the 327's power. I always say : "you only have enough torque and power when you're afraid to use it!" Until then, it's just a quick car - I want it scary quick/fast. I believe this 406 will get me near that point . Mikelly, Have you decided on heads and cam for that engine yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 28, 2003 Author Share Posted November 28, 2003 Pete, I've got the Isky cam from the previous build, as well as the heads and valve train... My heads are the Dart Conquest... 76cc 215 runner with 205/160 valves! And guys, I provided the parts and had the motor balanced internally and assembled for $300... No way I could have done that here in Virginia for that price... Should make some serious power. Heads are at the shop now being massaged. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 O.k. - you found the 6th gear to be of little use with that cam in the 383 before (chugging, rough running) and you sold your T-56. What are you going to do for a tranny? Richmond 6 spd? Tremec TKO or TKO II? Don't tell me you're going slush box on us . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 28, 2003 Author Share Posted November 28, 2003 I'm gonna do a Tremec TKO2... THe T56 wasn't the best trans for my combo AND it is a SUPER heavy trans... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neil Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 This issue deals with the toothless wonders in Tennessee I'd take offense to that, but I live on the Virginia side of Bristol (twin city, you know). Thanks for the heads up, Mike. I remember earlier posts about this engine and the shop. Since you seemed to have a good experience with them, I was considering using them when the time came since they're in my town. I'm sorry you got messed over, but I'm sure glad you said something so I won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 28, 2003 Author Share Posted November 28, 2003 Trust me... You do NOT want to use them... They did not puts the specified parts in the build on several key points... Hadn't been aware until we pulled the motor appart, and that motor had less than 3K miles on it when we did pull it appart... They are not a trustworthy vendor... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drewz Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Mike those heads are the cast iron ones??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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