qwik240z Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 <HTML><FONT SIZE=2 PTSIZE=10 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Hey guys, I am the owner of a very clean 1972 240Z. I bought the car this past summer and my plan has been to install a V-8 into the car. The car currently has an L28 with a 5 speed and a fully adjustable MSA coilover suspension with urethane bushings, Tokiko 5 ways, sway bars, and strut tower bars.& It has Nissan Green stuff brake pads and shoes and SS brake lines. I have had it to the track and have autocrossed it and it handles very nicely. See it here: http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=3083&ppuser=4628 I am familiar with V-8 swaps as I have swapped an all aluminum 215 CI Olds V-8 into my 1972 Datsun 510.(see it here): http://britishv8.org/swaps/510v8.htm I have purchased and read (several times) the JTR V-8 Z conversion manual and I feel comfortable with the swap. I have also purchsed and read the JTR TPI/TBI swap manual although I am not nearly as comfortable with that. I have also spent countless hours looking through the posts on this and have spoken with other V-8 Z owners, (Thanks Pete) My goals are to have a nice weekend cruiser and track/autocross car that will be: (not in any particular order) 1. Reliable (most important) 2. Powerful (275-300RWHP)& 3. Somewhat Quiet (need to be able to enjoy the stereo) 4. Under hood "WOW APPEAL" when you pop the hood people say "WOW!" 5. Air conditioning (too much humidity here in the summer) 6. Still deciding on manual vs. automatic transmission (prefer manual) 7. No major modifications to the body or chassis I want to purchase a motor already done. I do not want to have to build motor. I am considering the following motors: 1. LS1 with T56 6 speed. I am a little scared by the computer and the fuel injection as well as the trans. modifications to drive a speedometer and I feel there is little "WOW APPEAL" I really like the looks of chrome valve covers and simplistic wiring. The Edelbrock Intake that switches this motor to Carb is intriguing. I have found that I can buy a complete low mileage motor with the trans, and all needed accessories for around $4000. 2. ZZ4 Crate motor I like the ZZ4 because it is new and it makes 355hp, has aluminum heads, etc., but I will need to get a trans. A/C compressor, all other accessories, etc. Cost is around $3600 for the motor, another $1000 for the trans. and the other stuff. Can give this one lots of WOW APPEAL! 3. LT1 motor (1993 -1997) I don't know much about these motors but they are readily available around here. I don't think they have the power I want. I am hoping you all on the list can offer some opinions as to the best motor for my goals and also as to going with the manual trans vs. auto. My mechanical skills are ok but not expert. I did put the V-8 into the 510 without much help and modified many areas of that swap and had parts fabricated for me.I have never welded before. I have never rebuilt a motor before.& But I do have good attention to detail and I can read a wiring diagram and follow instructions.On a 1-10 I would say my skills are a 6. Time is not an issue as I have other cars to drive and I have dedicated garage space for the project. Cost is of some concern but I have planned on it costing between $7000 to $10,000 to complete the swap. I feel that I can do it right for this budget. Your thoughts, comments and opinions are welcomed on this. Please don't write to me and say "your Z is so nice you should leave it the way it is" I have heard that many times but I want to do the swap. I need more than 150RWHP Thanks in advance for your help! David </FONT></HTML> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 There is a place in Bristol, PA that sells a ton of LT1 and LS1 engines on ebay. They seem to have an excellent rating. This is where I plan on buying my motor/trans package. The LS1 engines are considerably more than the LT1's. But the LS1 t56 trannies are cheaper the the LT1 trannies. Go figure. If you are going to do a smog legal swap, then there *might* be some issues with the LS1 that the LT1 won't have. Other members in other states got hung up on ABS wheel sensors in the OBDII compliant cars. Being from Maryland myself I would be extremely interested to hear what you go through to do a smog legal swap. Keep in mind that part of the saftey inspection a car must go through to transfer title or get new plates requires all the smog equipment to be in place. This is true even for old vehicles that are exempt from testing. As for power, getting a 330 HP Corvette LT1, or upgrading the cams on a 285 HP F body LT1 should get you close to your stated HP goals. And a hell of alot cheaper. The option I am leaning toward is an iron head LT1 from a Caprice (cause they are cheaper) and a set of aftermarket aluminum heads/cam. Should easily push 400 HP with something like that. As you probably know, an LT1 will mount as per the JTR manual, whereas for an LS1 you will need to get much advice from other members. It has been done but it will be more work. And I would think twice about putting a carb on the LS1. That would be kind of like putting an 8 track in a brand new Porsche. You could never be smog legal with such a set up, and maybe someone has already thought of this, but you will still need the computer to control the ignition. If you want a carb and HEI distributor, then look again at the ZZ4 (or fast burn 385). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoeightythreez Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Quik240z, I just read you're looking for an engine. I have a sbc for sale. Here's the sweet stuff....balanced and blueprinted, schneider crank, new pistons and rods, ported and polished stock heads, chrome oil pan, chevy orange block paint, tall edelbrock polished cast aluminum valve covers, edelbrock performer intake, edelbrock long-style aluminum water pump, chrome timing cover, carter competition series polished carburetor, edelbrock cast aluminum polished air cleaner with filter, mallory unilite breakerless distributor and cap (polished), and a new performance 7.25" harmonic balancer. The engine's specs are for 350-375hp. The only things it needs to run are a fuel pump blockoff plate, a brain box for the distributor, and some block hugger headers. (I ordered these but they never came, guess they're lost in the mail!) The engine is a 283, 1967 model year. It definitely has the "wow" factor for under the hood and should have tons of power to boot (especially for it's size) There is also the stock oil pan , another oil pan gasket, and extra valve cover gaskets that would come with the engine. I'm hoping to get $2500 for the engine but am willing to entertain offers. I can't use it anymore because my '71 240z got wrecked and I want to pay some bills before I start over. So, this BEAUTIFUL engine is sitting in storage crying for a home! If you're interested please either call me at (619) 742-0008 and leave a msg, or leave me an email at edgarb@nimitz.navy.mil Hope I hear from you, thank you, Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Welcome to the forum. The LT1 is a fine engine and they make some great performance parts for them. Do not rule them out. In fact, that is the motor I'm looking at for turbocharging purposes. BTW, you'll never hear "Your car is nice & stock, so leave it alone" here! Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DISCUS Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 I AM HAPPY WITH THE LT1 FOR POWER 270 REAR WHEEL HORSE BEFORE PORT&POLISH OR AIR INTAKE MODS. THESE ARE BEING DONE NOW. THE 95 LT1 IS A BETTER CHOICE, BUY COMPLETE WITH TRANNY, WIRING HARNESS, COMPUTER, AIR COND, POWER STEERING EVERYTHING YOU CAN GET ATTACHED. ORIGINAL CAM AND ALUMINUM HEAD MAKE FOR A BETTER IDLE AND WEIGHT TO THE OVERALL CONVERSION. AUTOCROSS RESULTS WILL BE AFFECTED BY BALNCE AND HANDLING MORE THAN RAW POWER! i QUESTION WETHER INCREASED POWER WILL EFFECTIVELY HOOKUP UNDER NORMAL AUTOCROSS CONDITIONS. lOOKS IMPRESSIVE BUT TRACTION IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN BURNING RUBBER! jUST A NOTE TO REASSURE THAT THE LT1 CAN MEET AND EXCEED YOUR EXPECTATIONS. EYE CANDY HOWEVER IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER SO THAT PART IS UP TO YOU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nic-Rebel450CA Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 I agree, LT1 is a good choice. BTW, on a side note, how high have you revved that 215? I was thinking about doing a swap with one of them, but decided against it due to the fact that I never could find anyone to vouch for the reliability under a performance setup. (I was planning to do a high-rpm, supercharged 215) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoeightythreez Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Nic-450, I can't vouch for the 215 engine, but I do know that the buick 300 v-8 is VERY tough. Being the 215 was BUICK'S (not oldsmobiles, it was just installed in oldsmobiles) engine, and was based on the small block buick of the time, I would say it's pretty darn tough. Case in point, my friend had a 300 that he decided to try and blow, he floored it in park and had it revving 7,500rpm for so long that the exhaust (not just the manifolds, the entire exhaust!) was RED HOT. We never did blow that motor. It still ran (though the valves were a bit crispy by then, but it ran nonetheless)....we never managed to blow that lil' buick up. 'nuff said. The biggest prob with the 215 was if you overheated it, that was about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwik240z Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 Guys, GM made 2 versions of the 215 motor. A Buick and an Oldsmobile. From 1961 to 1963. They installed them in Buicks, Pontiacs, and Oldsmobile models. Pontiac got the buick version. The blocks were the same but the pistons, lifters/pushrods, and heads were different. In 1963 Olds came out with a Turbochareged version that made 215HP. That was a big thing at that time as 1HP per cubic inch was alot back then. In 1964 GM decided that aluminum was too expensive and ditched the 215 for the Buick 300. For the 1st year (1964) the motor was a cast iron block with aluminum heads. In 1965 they switched to cast heads as well. In 1965 GM sold the rights to the 215 to Rover. The V-8 motors Rover builds today are still based on the original 215. You can build a 5.0 liter version using the Rover 4.0 block (crossbolted mains) a buick 300 crank and buick 300 aluminum heads. Here are 2 websites of companies that specialize in building High Performance versions of these motors. http://www.aluminumv8.com http://www.lanocharacing.com You can judge for yourself if they are reliable. I have revved mine to 6500 with no problems. They are very lightweight. They would drop the weight of a 240z about 15-200 pounds depending on the trans you use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwik240z Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 Sorry, They will drop the weight of a 240Z about 150-200 pounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nic-Rebel450CA Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Thanks for the info. I was actually looking at keeping the 215 crank and maybe boring it out a little. I thought of using the iron Buick block with the 215 crank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Your Car is Slow Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Im stunned...did I miss the obligatory "DO A SEARCH" reply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Juday Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 David, I've done a tpi swap and an LT1/T56 swap. The LT1 is a sweet powerplant. The best year to get is '95. '96 and later are OBDII. Don't be intimidated by EFI. A/C with the LT1 is a bugger though. In the stock location the compressor interferes with the frame rail. Street and Performance makes some beautiful brackets to relocate the alternator and the compressor over the valve covers but the parts are pricey and you can't use the accessoies that came with the motor. The LS1 is lighter and even more powerfull but is not a bolt-in with the JTR kit. And, IMHO in not as nice to look at as the cleaner LT1. "Wow appeal" can work both ways though. The tpi motor is sexier than both the others but anyone in the know is not impressed by a tpi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Im stunned...did I miss the obligatory "DO A SEARCH" reply? No we only do that when a newbie asks if they can put a SBC 350 in their 240Z . It actually sounds like "qwik240z" has done a search! I know its hard to believe but some new members actually do a search and read the sticky at the top of the forum! LOL Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Yep, just what Guy said: he did already did a search. Heh, I had a long winded "do a search" reply typed out when I reread his post. I quickly deleted my original post. Plus, he has done a swap before, so he is serious about everything he says. When guys bring stuff like this to the table, we need to cut them some slack Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwik240z Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 Thanks for cutting me some slack. I try to follow the rules when I can. Thanks for the advice and comments so far. I think the ZZ4 might be a good choice. It seems that to get that much power from the LT1 or the LS1 they will need to be modified in some way or another. Several list members have contacted me with motors for sale too. I would like to know more about the T56 trans. The JTR manual shows that the tailhousing needs to be modified to drive a speedo. They sell a modified tailhousing for like $450. Are there other ways of doing this? I would really prefer a manual trans over an automatic but I want an overdrive unit and the T-5 will not handle the abuse of over 300HP. But if I install an auto the wife could drive it (NOT!) and maybe she would like my car project more. She hates the 510 but she thinks the Z is pretty. Thanks Again! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Juday Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 I would like to know more about the T56 trans. The JTR manual shows that the tailhousing needs to be modified to drive a speedo. They sell a modified tailhousing for like $450. Are there other ways of doing this? Thanks Again! David Yes, two ways: 1) You can buy a unit that converts the signal from the speed sensor to a mechanical output to drive the cable to your stock Datsun speedo. You can calibrate it for your rear gears and tire sizes or recalibrate if you change anything. I've heard this is a nice unit but not cheap. Someone here has installed one resently. If you do a search you can probably find it pretty quick. 2) You can buy and install an aftermarket electronic speedo like the ones Autometer sells and it wires right up with three wires. It is also recalibrateable. I've installed one and I'm very happy with it. Very easy to calibrate. The 5" model fits very well into the S30 dash. Down side is you need to fab a bracket to mount it like the original or do the easy/cheapie method and glue it in with black silicon. Also, you will have to relocate the brake and high beam indicator lights to another area of the dash or do without. Then you get tempted to buy the matching tach as well and then you have to mount new turn signal indicators too. Even if you buy both the tach and speedo though I still think it is cheaper than the electomechanical converter. I'm not 100% on that though so someone here in the know straighten me out if I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 I mounted my AutoMeter 5" gauges by using a large hose clamp around the body of the gauge and attaching it to the existing bracket. I think I had to bend the bracket a little bit by hand, but it would sure beat silicone. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwik240z Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 Dan, Thanks for the response. I will look for the info on the electromechanical converter. It sounds like it may be an option. I would love to see some pics of the guages you talked about mounted in a Z. I was hoping to go with the stock guages but I guess I would consider changing them out. I would want all of the guages to look the same so I guess I would have to spend a bundle on them. Looking at some of the electric Autometer guages a nice speedo is about $200 so around $600-$700 on guages was not in the budget but if I buy the guages instead of the modified tailhousing that was in the budget it's not that much more. I am already getting sucked into that "while I'm at it" syndrome and I haven't even turned a wrench yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwik240z Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 Guys, I found this website that has speedo converters that convert the electronic signal from the trans to a unit that drives the speedo cable. $150 for the unit. Not bad if it works. I will do more research. http://www.terf.com/SpeedChangerMechanicalPage.htm This would allow me to keep the stock guages and install a T56 and saves money. Cool! Sorry to the wife but I really like to shift! The daily driver is an automatic (2002 Maxima SE) I'll let you know when I find out more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas28O Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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