Guest livewire23 Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 I did my turbo for something like 2.3k, but that was just bolting a turbo onto a NA motor, with intercooler, bigger injectors and the lot. Downside is my setup still has bugs. I'm conviced that its the fuel pump, so when I get back Im gonna try to pick up a bosch fuel pump and hope that fixes my problems. Nice job with the #s. When my setup is done it should be pretty similar, except my motor is higher compression, and I've got an IC. I hope I can pull solid numbers like that. Get an IC, and join the big boost club I wish I could join, I don't think I've hit over 2 psi yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 congrats man I think those numbers are good and will get much better soon as you intercool! the only downside is you spent allot of money (10k just making sure its not a typo) is that including your old NA motor and labour cause that seems high.Iam planning to my turbo swap as soon as I can find s30 chasis and your expenses are scaring me I hope I dont run into that much bad luck. yeah that is total money spent on the car in the space of one year... that was taking my entire drivetrain out of my '80 ZX, including my built up, 2.9L, 10.5:1 CR motor, putting a cam in it (hadn't done so before then for fear of not being able to pass smog) swapping out the ZX EFI for a brand new pair of Ztherapy SU's, putting all new suspension, brakes, interior (carpet, seats, door panels) replacing a dented hood and fender, custom exhaust... really the works. Then I had some problems with bad fuel and had to get the head rebuilt. Then getting the turbo motor and complete drivetrain out of another ZX, swapping that in... having more problems necessetating a rebuilt head, then had to rebuild the block... if you counted just the turbo swap I spent somewhere from $4-6k I believe... never really stopped to add it up, and dont really want to and I hope NO person ever runs into as much bad luck as I've had with this turbo swap. yeah I look forward to getting the I/C installed... things just sitting gathering dust. Anyways I NEED to upgrade the fuel pump first... if it's running this lean the I/C, with colder, more oxygen packed air, would only aggravate the situation more I think. So the I/C could actually possibly do more harm than good? That's a funny thought... so that's about all I have left to do, in this order: fuel pump, I/C install, and replacing my old worn bushings... turn boost up to 12psi, dyno one more time to be sure it's running safely, then I'm pretty much done. As for shifting, it doesnt' really seem or feel like there's much point revving much higher than 5-5.5k... you can feel the torque taper off by then and I cant imagine it's pulling very hard any more at that point, definately not the optimal place to be in the rev range, also now that I KNOW that it's leaning out I would be scared to rev to 6k. Anyways not to sound like a skeptic but I will be very surprised if just upgrading to a better pump really fixes the lean running on top... I'll be very happy when it does though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 HAHAHAA LOLOL... Funny 525 - to be sure it's running safely, then I'm pretty much done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 I'm serious.... I ain't got that boost bug man! Okay I got the scans of the dyno runs... This one just shows the first run, but the damn guy started the run way too late at 2600rpm, and cut it too early also at like 5100rpm... I told the guy I wanted from 2k to 5.5k... ah well. You can see the A/F ratio down at the bottom... also it looks like I didn't really peak at 199hp... the hp and torque jump up a little right at the very end of the run... like a hiccup or something. Peak power is about 194. The second one shows runs #1 and #3 overlayed. #2 and #3 were within 1hp and one ftlb of each other so I didn't see the need to do all three, however I did include #3 to show the difference in the A/F ratio with the 02 sensor connected... ran a bit more lean in the mid range. Also #3 he broadened the run from 2k to 5200... dont know why he woulnd' t take it to 5500 but anyways you can see the power starts to fall off right about that point anyways and torque has already started going steadily down. Anyways... I still jsut get stupid little red x's whenever I try to view any pics in anyones albums on this site, including my own... well hopefully you guys can see them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 wtf??? why they show up so small? I set them up for the highest pixel height and width that the album would let me upload... wtf??? you know... I consider myself a technically knowledgeable person... but for the life of me I can NOT get pics to work right on this forum... here is the link to my album page: http://hybridz.org/phpBB2/album_personal.php?user_id=2572 can anyone explain the damn red x thing??? I know I"m not the only one with this problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayAreaZT Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Hows that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest szlash280z Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 how much did it cost you to run it at your dyno? I want some info on the whole process, if you pay for an hour why did you only get 3 runs? I dont' know how all that works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Those are some great numbers, especially considering it's a basically stock system. The a/f ratio is quite interesting - I'm wondering what your impression is driving the car. Does it seem sluggish through that extremely rich range? I also wonder if that a/f ratio is typical of the 280ZXT ECCS...my 300ZX ECCS a/f curve is much flatter; varies between 12:1 and 12.5:1 all the way to 6k rpm. I'm serious.... I ain't got that boost bug man! Heheh, you know the first step towards curing your addiction is to admit you have a problem. You are still in denial! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR8ED Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 "DeNial" hehe not just a river in Egypt. I remember echoing those very same words... I figured 7 Psi would be plenty quick in my lighter car...hehehe That lasted 1 day before I started cranking it all she could suffer..hehehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 how much did it cost you to run it at your dyno? I want some info on the whole process, if you pay for an hour why did you only get 3 runs? I dont' know how all that works. some places charge by the hour with a one hour minimum charge. You have to figure they are counting the process of getting your car up on the machine, hooking up safety straps to it and all that as part of that hour. Places that charge by the hour are usually also doing some tuning or at least they will if you want them to. The places I've been to didn't do a by-the-hour thing, instead they just had a flat rate for doing a baseline, regardless of the time it takes. Which is just hooking your car up and doing three runs, and giving you a print out of the results. This type of set service does NOT include any tuning at all, though many times they will let you do some minor tweaking in between runs if you want to see what effect they have... however you are usually only allowed three runs. I pay $105 to do three runs, though I've known places that would do it for as low as $70... I went with this guy and paid the extra because he was very close... the last two shops I went to were over an hour away. Anyways all told for hook up, doing the runs and a brief cool off period in between took about 45 mins... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Im at 12psi and holding it there. I said it to myself too many times that Im not turning up the boost, I know I am Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Those are some great numbers' date=' especially considering it's a basically stock system. The a/f ratio is quite interesting - I'm wondering what your impression is driving the car. Does it seem sluggish through that extremely rich range? I also wonder if that a/f ratio is typical of the 280ZXT ECCS...my 300ZX ECCS a/f curve is much flatter; varies between 12:1 and 12.5:1 all the way to 6k rpm. Heheh, you know the first step towards curing your addiction is to admit you have a problem. You are still in denial! [/quote'] Yeah I thought that A/F is kinda odd... but about it feeling sluggish... the butt dyno tells me quite the opposite... the car feels the most torquey during the parts on the graph that are the richest, and starts to feel out of breath right around the time the A/F starts climbing above 12:1. For around town driving the A/F is significantly more lean... when he was doing part throttle at 2-3k rpm the A/F was more like 14:1, then he'd floor it it would stay lean briefly then as boost came on it would just slam rich like that. You can see that in the graph as he floors it at 2000rpm. I would have thought that my A/F curve would be un-ordinary and probably indicated something wrong with my car, but then I hunted up Tyson 280zx's old dyno chart and saw (mostly stock ZXT) that his fuel curve does exactly the same thing. Here's the link again: http://www.z-parts.com/stuff/run1af-tor.JPG So it definately seems to be the way the 280zxt's ECCS was designed. As you can also see for run 3 (the light blue lines) when I leave the 02 sensor connected it leans it out a bit in that range, from 11 to 10:1, however the car feels like it runs much better (again by the butt dyno) w/o it. However, I dont know the condition of that 02 sensor, and will be buying a new one soon and replacing it and seeing how it feels. The difference in torque shows a few ftlbs less with that leaner curve though. I'm DEFINATELY looking forward to getting a better fuel pump in there and hopefully seeing it stay on the rich side of things up into higher revs, hopefully extending my torque curve a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Dont know why you guys can't take my word for it when I say I'm just about 'done' with making it faster or that 250 hp is gonna be enough for me. I mean hell it feels plenty fast already and I'm only at 190ish... I got another 50hp to go and I can only imagine how much faster it will be at that point compared to now... I mean I know 194rwhp feels MUCH faster than my old built N/A motors 170ish, but I know that is more due to having WAY more torque.... either way... I'm sure by the time I hit aroudn 240 it will be MORE than fast enough for me, as it is already kinda scary as it is. This isn't denial it's called "MODERATION". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 525, I commend you on sticking to your guns (for the time being) on staying with your 250hp "limit" but, like it always happens to me and i'm sure MANY of the other power/speed like myself on this board, sooner or later it'll seem like something's wrong with your Z because it's not as fast as it used to be. Fact is, she's not getting slower, you just start getting used to the power of your Z and want to push it jusssstttt a little further It's just the nature of the beast i think. I know you've been through a lot with this whole swap, and we all know you became a "hybridz master" in about a month with the amount of posts you have under your belt , and that you've promised your girl that once you reach this "limit" of yours, you'll be "DONE" but, i'll almost bet that if in 6 months you reach your "goal", you'll be doing just "ONE MORE THING..." I know from first hand experience! haha. 50hp...hell, that's only 5 more #'s of boost. That'll put you at 15psi. I sure hope she doesn't surge on you one day and hit 17-18psi because then you'll be trying to figure out how to run safely with the needle on that part of the boost gauge! Anyway, nice #'s! Congrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Nice numbers 525. It is good to see people dyno this stage of the turbo swap because it seems like the first stop on the quest to turn up boost. Since the fuel is 10:1 it makes me wonder how much if any a person gains with a programmble fuel computer on this same setup. Would adjusting it to 12:1 gain more across that area of the curve? Hmm.... maybe you won't be turning up boost soon, but now you're going to wonder if some power can be gained by just getting a programmable computer installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifegrddude Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Hey nice #'s you got there. That's weird how your Z is running way leaner than mine did at 9 psi though. At topend, my a/f was only about 12.0 ish or so. Maybe 1 psi changes the fuel map a lot? If you'd like to take a look, it's at: http://dynoperformance.com/search_details.php?ID=407 I hope I can 200 to the wheels like your Z. That'd be nice. John 82ZXT Oh btw, Jersey, I did your method about the fuel injectors (hehe) and two of them were squirting kinda funny so I'm assuming they're the bad injectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 I think it's got something to do with timing. 525 said his timing is at 20 TDC at idle. Timing added more HP than boost sometimes. It does take more fuel to keep it from going lean like that. And rich makes the car run torquey until it gets too fat and it'll spatter some black smoke. O, has anyone check and see if the rpm signal is accurate? I know mine was off like 300rpm or so. May be the ECU is thinking less rpm than actual engine speed which cause it to run leaner than suppose to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Hey John - They're probably not bad, they just need to be cleaned so the pintle valve can move freely. If you have someone cranking the motor while you're up front watching the injectors, tap the side of the injector lightly while it's spraying. It may just clean the pattern up a bit. Techtron (sp?) seems to have worked well on my 370's. They're all atomizing nicely now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cusp Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 What's this method of checking injectors, Jersey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Not a very safe one or one that will tell you if they're they're spaying perfectly but, just a suggestion i made here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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