kj280z Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I'm in the process of collecting parts for a 240Z LS1 swap. I was considering the T56 but thought that it would be worth checking into a T5... The T5 can be upgraded to put up with the torque, fits better in the tranny tunnel, is ~100 pounds lighter. The cost to upgrade a T5 vs buying a T56 is comparable... During the process of having the T5 "beefed up" you can select any gears you want, that's yet another benefit... Will a stock GM style T5 bell housing bolt up to a LS1? Any issues? Will there be any issues with the ECM? (Speed sensing stuff Ect) Thanks! Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Juday Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Intriguing! You're a little optimistic on the weight savings. I believe it's a lot closer to 75 lbs. lighter, but still not insignificant. VSS should be no problem, just a pulse signal. T5's used 4k pulses per mile. Well worth investigating. Bet G-Force could answer the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 If you're "beefing up the internals", you are adding weight. My bet is you drop down to ~50lbs weight savings. Bell house is different. Input shaft is different. These are problems that can be solved, but why? To save a few pounds? And for your trouble you lose a gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Actually, if you haven't already seen it, here's a thread for you: http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132542 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 But in using G-Force, you are more likely to get gearing the way you want it vs being stuck with the stock (low) ratio of 1st gear with the T56. That's what really bites IMO. Don't a lot of guys on this board with the T56 upgrade say that 1st is useless? Then the tranny just becomes a heavy 5 speed. Plus, the G-Force gears are stronger then the T56 gears, judging by the amount of horseower they claim their transmissions can handle. I should note that all of this is off the top of my head and it is late...*ugh* Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 No way....1st gear is GREAT!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Yeah, I was worried about 1st gear with my 4.11. But after driving with it, it is plenty usable. And long term I will have some kind of LSD with a lower ratio, so, no worries there. T56 is certainly heavy - seems lighter than the A4 though (at least according to my knees). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 OK, I'm owned Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 OK' date=' I'm owned Davy[/quote'] I don't know if I would give up so fast. I have read quite a number of posts about the gear spread of the T56. People like Phantom and Mike Kelly if memory serves. Maybe "useless" is too strong of a word, but I think you raised some valid points either way. Two other things to consider. First is the conversion cost of a T5 to an LS1 vs the cost of an LS1 T56. One of the big advantages of a T5 on an older SBC is they are bolt up affairs. But the the LS1 T56 is a different animal. So I don't know how much I would be willing to pay to convert an LS1 to a T5, espeically since the LS1 T56 seems to be cheaper than the LT1 version to begin with. Guess you are going to find out for us. Second, I would be somewhat careful evaluating the G Force T5. I would want to hear a few more real world testimonials from guys actually using/abusing them. If you read the weasel words on their site, they don't really state a torque rating. Others have stated they believe the problem with the T5 is case flex. If this is true, then I wonder how much can be done with just stronger internals. Just more fuel for the fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 When I first started driving my car I seriously thought I'd made a boo-boo with the T56. With 3.70 gears in the rear I just don't need 1st gear in normal daily driving and 6th has me cruising at 60 at 1,500 RPM. The culprit is the 1st gear ratio - about 2.66:1 while second is a distant 1.78:1. I would be a lot happier with a 2.3:1 1st. tighter gearing and more useful 1st. I thought - why not get a 5-spd with about 3.45 gears in the rear and it would be about right? Then I took the car to the track. I'm definitely glad I have the T56 now. The first 4 allow me to really haul - I just need better tires - and then I have the last 2 for quiet cruising and good fuel economy. If I had my druthers I'd probably put in a 3.36:1 gear set in the R200 and call it good. I'd then be cruising at 60 at 1,360 RPM but the LS1 will handle it fine. PS - I saw a used LS1 style T56 advertised the other day for $700. I really don't think the prices are all that bad now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj280z Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 Well I spoke to G-Force today... They say there won't be any real issues with bolting it up. The challenges? Finding a reasonably priced 88-92 WC T5 housing for the right price... If you can find one for $250 - $450 range then I think this is a viable solution. Unfortunately, the WC case can get pricey... The Gear set is $950 and an upgraded main shaft is another $250. If you have them assemble it they charge $250. Case $300 Gearset $950 Main Shaft $250 Assembly $250 Misc $250 Total around $2000 for a brand new transmission that should be bullet proof! I've seen a few cheaper T56's go for no lower than $750 (but with higher miles)... Most times they sell for $1300 to $1500 Here's a quote for any doubters about the strength and durability "the G-Force T-5 kit will handle roughly 600 hp or 500 ft-lb. of torque in a 3300 lb. vehicle running drag radials at the track with a moderate clutch upgrade." As far as the gearing... 2.94, 1.94, 1.34, 1.00, .59 You guys can make your own decisions, but with a 245/45/16 with an OD of 24.7" and a 3.70 Diff here's the numbers: 80 MPH 3rd Gear 5402 RPM 4th Gear 4031 RPM 5th Gear 2378 RPM 40 MPH 1st Gear 5926 RPM 2nd Gear 3910 RPM 3rd Gear 2701 RPM 4th Gear 2016 RPM 5th Gear 1189 RPM I like what I see so far. Your thoughts? Thanks for the responses... Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKDGabe Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 If you're patient you can find a t56 alot cheaper than $1,300. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2459681637&category=33733 Start lurking on F-body forums (if you aren't already) and you can find some great deals sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj280z Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 Most have higher miles and you run the risk of them having been abused in the past... A T56 rebuild will cost you over $2000 is some cases. The example you gave is $1000 has 60,000 miles and has had a previous "clutch explosion"... Sure you might find one cheaper, but in the long run the $2000 for a bullet proof BRAND NEW T5 trans is well worth it. You're comparing a used T56 price to a new aftermarket ENHANCED transmission... not an apples to apples comparison... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Here's a quote for any doubters about the strength and durability "the G-Force T-5 kit will handle roughly 600 hp or 500 ft-lb. of torque in a 3300 lb. vehicle running drag radials at the track with a moderate clutch upgrade." Not to be a PITA' date=' but you took that quote slightly out of context. The entire quote is Although we do not like to put torque or horsepower ratings on our products due to the vast differences in clutch, engine, chassis, tire, and mounting combinations, we can give a very rough estimate. There are simply too many variables to consider when trying to figure out how much power or torque a transmission will take in a particular application. Generally, it can be assumed that with the available upgraded mainshaft, the G-Force T-5 kit will handle roughly 600 hp or 500 ft-lb. or torque in a 3300 lb. vehicle running drag radials at the track with a moderate clutch upgrade. Obviously this is just a rough estimate regarding the power and torque handling capability, but it should give some idea as to what the G-Force T-5 kit will handle in your particular application. Keep in mind you can't compare the price of an LT1 T56 with that of an LS1 variant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj280z Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 Not to be a PITA, but you took that quote slightly out of context. The entire quote is Quote: Although we do not like to put torque or horsepower ratings on our products due to the vast differences in clutch, engine, chassis, tire, and mounting combinations, we can give a very rough estimate. There are simply too many variables to consider when trying to figure out how much power or torque a transmission will take in a particular application. Generally, it can be assumed that with the available upgraded mainshaft, the G-Force T-5 kit will handle roughly 600 hp or 500 ft-lb. or torque in a 3300 lb. vehicle running drag radials at the track with a moderate clutch upgrade. Obviously this is just a rough estimate regarding the power and torque handling capability, but it should give some idea as to what the G-Force T-5 kit will handle in your particular application. I personally spoke to them... and quoted their website in the context of my conversation with them... We spoke about several cars that EXCEED the numbers above. Obviously, they need to be conservative with what they put in writing, but I'm quite comfortable with what I said and feel it's accurate... Are you trying to prove a point? If so... what is it? Do you have some sort of proof that it won't be able to handle the torque? If not then why the comments? Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I bought a rebuilt T56 from an outfit in Indiana for $1100 shipped including bellhousing and shifter. How about an aftermarket unit like a Richmond? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Are you trying to prove a point? If so... what is it? Do you have some sort of proof that it won't be able to handle the torque? If not then why the comments? Ken Just trying to get some definitive information. I am also interested in the G force, for much the same reasons as you. But the quote I cut and pasted directly from their website doesn't inspire much confidence. What would ice it for me is if someone is personally using the tranny with good results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj280z Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 Then I would recommend calling them... They'll point you in the direction of several of their customers (they did this for me) and you can make an decision with some more confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest j2-real.com Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I'm new to domestic tuning and such, but isn't the T56 the 6 speed tranny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedWild Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I'm new to domestic tuning and such, but isn't the T56 the 6 speed tranny? T56=6 speed T5=5 speed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.