qwik240z Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Guys, I was looking at "Briguy280Z" pics and I am intrigued by the motor mount crossmember he made. Does anyone know if this type of mounting is attached to anything other then the frame rails? If it is only attached to the frame rails can the stock frame rails handle the weight and torque of the LS1 motor? link to his pics: http://fp2k.redshift.com/briguy280z/ Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 I PMed hinm about his cross member and he told me he ended up doing something a little different. Made it thicker and reinforced the rails I think. Maybe he will chime in on this one. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briguy280Z Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 I have tring to update my drawing but havent had the time to measure the mounts. I really used 4x2 rectangle tubing with a Z-bar on each side. I welded the nuts on the inside of the tubing and welded the ends closed so that no water could get in. I liked th rectangled tubing because it has more of a tailerd look. You could use Channel and would loose about half the weight. Also when i used the rectangle tubing the sides are rounded which made the 2 inch channel lower than maichor and the oil pan hit. so i had to use some spacers above the rubber mounts to raise the engine about a quarter of an inch. I'll get under the car tomarrow and measure it out for you guys.. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Thanks Briguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iaconsultants Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 I like the same mounting used and I was wondering if the angle of the motor and transmission where set correct to the rearend. Also do you know if he used his own creations for the transmission mount and the rest of the peices to install the LS1 motor. I am really interested in finding out what I can do to get the best deal and a really good LS1 or LS6 set up. Maybe a new kit can be created that keeps the prices lower than Johns Cars. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage42 Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Having built several 510s over the last decade and I have to say that the 510 crowd would love to have the aftermarket support that the Z guys have. There were a few guys (companies) that built and supported the 510, but many of them are gone. Everyone was always looking for the "cheap" way to do it and not support those guys and then when they decide it's not worth the effort and discontinue their support, everyone started complaining about not having any support. Sheez, it's about supporting those who support your hobby, too. Personally, I'd pay a couple hundred bucks to get something quick and easy and not have to spend all my valuable time doing all this stuff to save a few bucks. You have to figure out what your time is worth ($10-20/hr?) and then go from there. I'm not saying this is the case for everyone. Aside from Roadster owners, I sure is hard to escape the stigma of Datsun Owners just being "cheap". Everyone wants 400HP for $2k in their car, but come on!! Sorry about the rant and I'm getting off my soapbox now, but I just wanted to give you my 2 cents. I'd hate to see other companies stop supporting the group because everyone keeps going out there to figure out another way to do something that is already done. Someone always takes the time, effort, energy and money to figure it out and I'd rather pay to not waste so much time on stuff like that. I'm just sayin'....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iaconsultants Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 I agree with you paying a little more for a very well developed and made design is worth it. The part that I found is that when I talked the Person at Johns about 2 months ago - well lets say he was not very interested in taking care of a customer that was ready to make the purchase right then. I wish it was different but, that was the case for meand it seems like from this forum and others that I had it easy. The kit added together at that time appeared to be over 3 K on top of the 4 to 8k you would spend on the engine and transmission. I like that there are 4 companies that make conversions for the 350 style motors, which keeps the gouge effect lower. AS can be seen others out there are building kits for themselves and it would be great if some of them would make a little money to keep doing it and making more options, so I fully support that and would help out anyway I can. In any case I am still looking for a good kit, that is made by a single person, group or company that will be willing to answer questions so that I or you can make the best choices. It seems crazy if you ask someone what engine transmission combination would they think is good and they come back and say you have to pay for that advice. Sorry about the long note but I had to qualify my desire to get a good deal design for the money spent. Once I find it or design it myself I will post it for all to access. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Since my car was the prototype for the Johns Cars conversion components I have to chime in here. I agree completely with Gary. It seems that facts seem to get twisted based on perspective. I've seen Johns price list and it's about $2,200 for everything, not over $3,000. Also, if I remember my conversations with John, you're not required to purchase all the parts. Example: if you don't have AC and are using an electronically driven speedometer the price quickly drops below $1,500. Another thing, John is a no-nonsense type of guy who is in business to make money, not to be a free information source for every enthusiast with a question. He's a business man and needs to spend his time doing things that further his business. He actually developed this kit as a favor to me. I twisted his arm to get him to do it. I will personally vouch for the time invested and the overall quality of the components. The installation is fully thought through and avoids a lot of pitfalls that folks fall into when doing it themselves because they "just didn't know". Do a search on this site under "LS1 / T56 Update" and read my posts that were done as the work progressed and also the ones since I got the car back. Several guys on this forum have seen the car and fully appreciate the quality of the installation - it looks OEM. I guess I just value my time too much. Like Gary I'm willing to spend a few extra dollars to speed up my project and avoid a lot of heartache and chin scratching. I'd much rather be out driving the car and chalking up the "kills" than be a member of Jackstand Racing - no offense intended there guys. If this offends anyone I apologize now. I just hate to see a guy I know personally get disparaged and not shed a little light from the other side. Bill Davis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwik240z Posted March 9, 2004 Author Share Posted March 9, 2004 Savage 42and list, I am all for supporting the guys out there who helps us. The kit that Johns cars makes is the only LS1 kit out there now. I even feel that for the money the motor mounts are priced fairly. ($295) I just am not sure that I want to have to make all of the changes necessary to use their kit. It would require that I purchase a new A/C compressor and relocate it in the engine compartment. It would also require that I use headers and I would like to retain the stock exhaust manifolds which can't work with their kit. Also, they will not share pics of their parts or details of things like if their trans. crossmember allows enough room for single or dual exhaust,how much ground clearance, etc. And their test car was a 280Z and I have a 240Z and some of the LS1 Z list members have discussed different motor placements affecting the shifter location. I understand that as soon as they do post some pics someone will try to copy them and they probably want to recoop some of their investment in this project before that happens. It just makes it very difficult to know if their kit is going to be better for my needs in the long run. Guys like Cyrus, Maichor, Jeromio, Briguy and MAS280 have all made different mounts and they all seem to work for their cars and each one required different modifications. I know that Phantom is very happy with the work they have done and from the pics I have seen and their reputaion I am sure the products are high quality. But since you need to use all of their components in order to make it work together they should really provide a complete kit with an installation manual to include the other stuff needed including wiring, fuel system, etc. The other kits they sell include this info but they have not gone the extra mile to document this info and provide it to us in a complete step by step method as their SBC install kit and Jag kits do. Since John's cars is the only game in town for LS1 Z kits I just want to know my options. Besides, how many Johns cars LS1 Z cars have actually been built besides Phantoms? If I have to figure out all of the other stuff on my own (with the help of this list of course) I don't know if it is worth the extra expense of buying a new A/C unit and a set of headers at a cost of $815. plus the $295 for their motor mounts for a total of $1110 when I could have a motor mount crossmember fabricated ($200-$300) buy some corvette mounts $100-$150 and be able to keep the stock items I want to keep. I am not trying to build a V8 Z car for $2000 and I don't consider myself cheap. I have a budget of $20000 for this project including the purchase of the car and so far I have spent over $15000 and all I have is the car and the new LS1. I really believe that I can finish this car for the remaining $5000 or so I have budgeted. And I can add to that the proceeds from the sale of my current motor and trans if I am running over budget. Savage42: you and I have been discussing this project of mine of almost a year so you know that I have been researching and planning this and trying to do it the right way. I just want it the right way with the things I want it to have. I am stepping of my soapbox now. David Below is a list of the items that Johns cars sells for the LS1 and the prices for anyone interested. LS-1 INFO QUEST 240-260-280 Z Rocket fueled zip for your first generation ZCAR, the 240, 260, 280 Z (not ZX). John’s Cars ZCar components matched with the all aluminum GM LS1 V8 and overdrive transmission define AWESOME! This 100% bolt-in kit does not rely on the stock Datsun cross-member motor mount towers alone for strength. There is no welding required or recommended. Everything is totally bolt-in. Cutting holes in the car are not necessary as with other swaps. Suspension modifications are not needed. Details: Stock 77 280Z/L28 W/ LS1 & T56 LS1 W/Roll-bar & strut braces Total Weight: 2,800 2,830 2,895 Front Only: 1,400 1,400 1,415 Rear Only: 1,400 1,430 1,480 Neither braking nor handling are affected due to the minor weight change (30 pounds more on the rear). Fact is that V8 ZCar has a lower center of gravity than the original inline Nissan 6. You will, however, want to upgrade both the braking and suspension if you are planning on “competing†with the car. We don’t offer those items and I don’t have any preferences or suggestions who to use - there are many excellent vendors for you to choose from for those items. Check online Z groups, like http://www.HybridZ.org. I hope you will read this information carefully. There is good info here that should cover 99% of your questions - If it misses one please send an email to zcar@johnscars.com. More than 25 years of V8 conversions have guided not only this project but the information you need to make good decisions. I do conversions in house on local vehicles only, not hot rods - full smog, emission legal in Dallas. You can make an appointment to visit JCI - Monday-Friday 8-6. You may note that I repeat some things - I don’t have an LS-1 kit for the 280ZX (small block kit is available - see the website). I don’t have anything (nada) for a 300ZX. WHY - the cars are different - takes different parts - parts I have not designed. If I do build parts I will send out info to those who send an email, please do not call - I do not have anything to tell you and I can’t design stuff being a parrot on the phone. I don’t need any guinea pigs - I have both 280 and 300ZX cars in the yard that maybe I’ll get to someday, sorry if that does not fit your instant gratification society, the customer is always right and more power to the consumer. My answer for that is I’ll be happy to refer all comers to you as soon as you have your fire breather smoking the skins. Performance on the mule is in the 12s on street tires, so if someone can beat you I’ll wager it is not a daily driver that idles ripple free. There are production line vehicles that are worthy foes - and they are in the 6 figure category, it all depends on how you want to spend it. The LS1 is GM’s state-of-the-art Hi-Po motor, coil-on-plug, fuel injected and fully computer controlled. You’ll even maintain the OBD2 driveline diagnostics. Convert your Z to this technology that GM spent years and hundreds of thousands of dollars to develop for their factory high performance vehicles. Best of all, you don’t have to reinvent the wheel to do it. You will have to “edit†the GM computer to your rear axle ratio, remove the speed limiter, and maybe some horsepower tweaks! ChipsbyAl@aol.com did the ECM for the prototype, I also use and recommend Street & Performance or Howell Engineering. John’s Cars (JCI) built this LS-1 prototype in 2002 using a 1998 Camaro pullout. Summer of 2003 I took it apart to analyze the effort and the thousands of miles of road and track experience. What did we change? A synchro in 5th gear! JCI is now ready to offer components to you. Building blocks are what you can buy from JCI. This is not a kit and it is not “blacksmith plansâ€. It is a group of critical components, designed to work together, that will allow the experienced do-it-yourselfer to successfully complete this installation. It eliminates “do-oversâ€, second guesses and 50-50 hindsight decisions and; “most of all†the basket case syndrome that befalls the cheapest way. Don’t call to pump us for free info - the answers and information are here on these pages - 25 years of hands on experience designed this V8 installation. I have no desire nor need to explain what is proven works. This same experience is why I am very specific in telling you: If you want to design your wheel be my guest - without my input. You can go online for all the free commiseration you could ever want. The building blocks we offer are as follows: Front mounting set: This is a five piece bolt-in set that properly locates your LS-1 in the ZCAR engine bay on GM mounts with clearances for headers and manual steering rack. You don’t get to guess where to drill the final holes - yes there are parts offered for various cars that have you make the decision and then it becomes your problem. My mounts are 100% bolt-in, painted, and with all the necessary hardware and don’t require (or allow) any guesswork. I provide a manual that details removal of the Z driveline - car prep for the V8 and the install of the components you purchase. I do not provide this information without the purchase of the front mounts. Purchase of the front mounting set is required to be enable you to purchase any of the other components. You can purchase the other components later as your budget dictates. Mounts are on the shelf for immediate shipping. Front mounting set & hardware, plus the paperwork, freight paid - $295.00. Transmission crossmember and rubber mount: The original Z transmission mount will need to trimmed flush so you do have to drill holes for installing the new mount. Available for either the 4l60E or the T56. Crossmember, rubber mount, and hardware, freight paid - $135.00. Driveshaft: A complete, balanced unit with slip yoke, ready to bolt in. This is an all GM driveshaft with full size u-joints at each end, bolts to Z diff, freight paid - $265.00. Speedometer Drive Unit: Converts the electronic output from the GM transmission into a mechanical drive for the Datsun stock speedometer. 3 wire hook-up, made in the USA, new cable included, freight paid - $285.00. Vital Liquids Set: Upper and lower radiator hoses, clamps, adaptors, tap for the Datsun oil pressure sender, plus two water temps (GM FI and Datsun dash gauge). This will save you days of time! Shipped with other components - $85.00. Radiator: We’ll recore your old radiator with a new 4-row super duty high efficiency core. Ship us your unit and we’ll return it prepaid to you ready to install - $275.00 to your door. Headers: (Not available for CA) 4 tube block hugger style – 16 gauge – custom made in the USA specifically for this application. They clear the steering, starter and oil filter and maintain good ground clearance. Includes two oxygen sensor bungs. These headers are not CARB certified so they cannot be sold in California. Freight paid - $385.00. More exhausting details: I modified a set of Sanderson Headers for this car. I didn’t try to stick with the stock GM manifolds and it does not appear that they will work without modification. If you have not seen the stock manifolds pipe flange - one look should explain the interference. Street & Performance also offers a set of universal headers if you don’t want to spend the $385.00 on my custom fit headers. Your muffler man will make the rest of the system for you. AC compressor mount and drive: New aluminum high efficiency compressor, made in Japan with serpentine belt drive. I do not supply or make the hoses - too many variations, but most hydraulic hose or AC shops can make you a set when you drive the car to them. The GM factory AC compressor will not clear my mounts so I designed a custom unit. Package includes all mounting brackets and hardware, freight paid - $450.00. High volume fuel pump: New – mounts in same location as stock 280Z unit, freight paid - $195.00. Tachometer calibration: We will calibrate your analog Z tach to read the revs and keep your interior stock. Cost is 75.00 but if you order all the JCI parts above the tach calibration is your BONUS - no charge. You don’t have to buy headers if you are in California to qualify for Bonus. It is strongly recommended that you find a complete Camaro or Firebird (CFB) donor vehicle. Usually you can buy an entire donor cheaper than the boneyard will charge you for the pullout. You need the engine, transmission, full wiring harness, ECM, accessories and brackets, radiator fans, etc.. Get it all at once and save time and money in the long run. The stock GM alternator is retained rather than the Datsun unit. It would not be up to the task of the fans. I use the stock CFB fans - they directly plug in to the engine wiring harness and therefore are computer controlled - is strongly recommended, very easy to mount and those notes are included with mounts. Transmission choices are the 6-speed (overdriven) T56 manual trans or the computer controlled 4L60E overdrive automatic. Automatics are a slightly easier swap and with the mountains of torque the LS1 generates it makes for a more driveable car. You can “light-em up†whenever you want and the 30% overdrive reduces noise, improves mileage, and lengthens engine life. The ZCAR factory automatic shifter is okay and there are aftermarket units if you prefer. Of note – in this installation the T56 manual install does not require enlarging the transmission tunnel or modifying the shifter hole. I used a factory GM clutch master cylinder. I understand it is best to keep the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) as it reduces spark knock, reduces emissions, and allows the computer to signal more ignition advance which translates into more power. The headers have the required plumbing to retain the EGR. AIR – air induction reaction – is not included with the headers. AIR functions the first minute or so of operation and helps complete combustion and light off the catalytic converters quicker. The LS1 air pump is electric and controlled by the ECM. You will have to verify what is required for local emissions - I can not know what your locale requires, please do not call me. Side notes: These components are for the first generation Zcars only. The first generation is 240 - 260 and 280 Z - not 280ZX. We do not have anything LS-1 for the ZX, we do offer a small block V8 kit for all of the cars before the 300ZX. ZX to LS-1 models may be offered later - send email to zcar@johnscars.com and request ZX info - please do not call, it is a waste of time. These components will allow you to mechanically install the drive train and cooling system in approximately 20 hours. It does not include any super detailing of the engine bay, paint repairs, or electrical connections work. Class takes time - what you see on TV mechanic is not real time. If your Z is rusty, don’t even start. Find another body shell that is rust free. The torque developed by this drive train pushes the limits of the Z unibody even when it is in good condition. The stock Z differential and half-shafts have proven adequate for this application. To get yourself started toward the ride of your dreams fill out the order sheet, sign it, and send it in along with certified funds. Remember, freight costs included within the continental USA – Hawaii and Alaska will be slightly higher due to higher shipping costs. Tax is due on any sale in Texas. Headers can not be sold/shipped to California. If you have questions I did not address here please send an email to zcar@johnscars.com. Thanks for making it to the end - they’ll be seeing your tail lights adios with the JCI LS1 ZCar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas28O Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 When I wanted to do my Ls1 swap I called up Johns Car, but I did not want to spend my $$ with someone that is very rude on the phone. After all I am trying to give them some money. If I wanted to keep ac I would of made my mounts just like Cyres, Maichor. They use the Corvette mounts and it lets you keey the stock alternator and ac loacations. I did not want ac so I made some very simple mounts that will bolt right into the stock z-car x-member. The only bad thing is that I had to move my alternator to the top pass side. Johns car mounts the motor further forward, this is why they are able to keep the alternator in the stock loacation. $295 is not bad for some custom mounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 David, Minor correction. John won't sell his other components if you don't get his engine mounts. His mounts don't require that you use all the other stuff but they are required to make his other stuff work. I have evaluated the layout and both the alternator and AC compressor could be mounted in different locations. The advantage of this layout is that one is a stock location and by placing the AC compressor where he did we were able to use the stock accessory drive components, including the stock serpentine belt. The transmission mount will allow you to run dual 2.5" exhaust if that helps. It's harder with the 4L60E than the T56 but it works. The engine mount brings the gearshift up about 1/2" forward of the stock location in a 280Z. If you can use that as a reference for your 240Z then glad to help. The biggest thing about the components is the amount of work you don't have to do. He uses a recored stock radiator so there is no fabrication to do there and I'll definitely vouch for its effectiveness when used in conjunction with the Z28 fan shroud and fans. That's the other thing - the Z28 shroud and fans only require a small amount of trimming to fit like they were made for the Z radiator. His vital fulids kit gets you the hoses you need for radiator & heater hook-ups. You can source those yourself no real problem - it just will take a little time. The headers are headers. No big deal. But they do come with the 02 sensor bungs. You can cut up the stock exhaust manifolds a bit and move your steering arm slightly and make the stockers work. I've really tried to not come across as a salesman for his stuff but, since I'm the only one with very thorough first-hand knowledge of it, I will attempt to clarify any issues. Anyone can PM or direct email me any time with questions. If you are in the DFW area I'm even willing to meet and let you look at the car. One other item. John does come across on the phone as rude. I've been to his place many times and you just have to understand the literal hundreds of calls he gets from guys that just want free information. He also has a very dry sense of humor that can be mistaken for rudeness. I had to learn that one myself. If you give him the benefit of the doubt you'll find him to be a very knowledgable guy and, at least in my case, a good friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage42 Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Good gawd, Dave, that was an epic. I wasn't speaking to you in particular, just in general. You know what I'm talking about, after being part of the 510 group for some time. Anyway, you should be able to get your car done for that $20k budget, especially since you started with a nice car. Mine is a full on bare metal restoration, monster brakes, body kit, LS6, blah, blah, blah and that is not counting any of my time and labor to actually put the car together. It adds up quick, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwik240z Posted March 10, 2004 Author Share Posted March 10, 2004 David' date='Minor correction. John won't sell his other components if you don't get his engine mounts. His mounts don't require that you use all the other stuff but they are required to make his other stuff work. I have evaluated the layout and both the alternator and AC compressor could be mounted in different locations. The advantage of this layout is that one is a stock location and by placing the AC compressor where he did we were able to use the stock accessory drive components, including the stock serpentine belt. Phantom, Could the A/C & Alternator stay in the stock location using John's motor mounts? "The transmission mount will allow you to run dual 2.5" exhaust if that helps. It's harder with the 4L60E than the T56 but it works. The engine mount brings the gearshift up about 1/2" forward of the stock location in a 280Z. If you can use that as a reference for your 240Z then glad to help." That does help some. Do you know how far below the floorboards the trans mount sticks out if at all? "The biggest thing about the components is the amount of work you don't have to do. He uses a recored stock radiator so there is no fabrication to do there and I'll definitely vouch for its effectiveness when used in conjunction with the Z28 fan shroud and fans. That's the other thing - the Z28 shroud and fans only require a small amount of trimming to fit like they were made for the Z radiator. His vital fulids kit gets you the hoses you need for radiator & heater hook-ups. You can source those yourself no real problem - it just will take a little time." I already have a 4 core Z radiator so that is a plus. So is the fact that the fans and shroud will fit nicely as seen in your pics. I think the price for the Vital fluids is fair (as are most of his prices) considering how much time it took me on my 510 V8 to find the correct fitting hoses. "The headers are headers. No big deal. But they do come with the 02 sensor bungs. You can cut up the stock exhaust manifolds a bit and move your steering arm slightly and make the stockers work." If I have to go with headers I guess I can make the trade for more HP vs. quieter ride. I do have a problem with the A/C though. I read in the LS1/LS6 performance book about all of the trouble GM went through to isolate the A/C from the other accessories in order to reduce the noise and the vibration from the compressor. Also in the stock location the A/C compressor runs on it's own belt. We only use A/C her for about 3 months and it would be easy to disconnect that drive belt for the rest of the year and for track events. Not to mention that the engine bay looks alot cleaner with it tucked down low (Not saying your engine bay doesn't look Great. It does) And it is a GM part that is readily available if something goes wrong. "I've really tried to not come across as a salesman for his stuff but, since I'm the only one with very thorough first-hand knowledge of it, I will attempt to clarify any issues. Anyone can PM or direct email me any time with questions. If you are in the DFW area I'm even willing to meet and let you look at the car." Do you know of any other completed LS1 Z cars using Johns kit? Have any do it yourselfers completed his kit? "One other item. John does come across on the phone as rude. I've been to his place many times and you just have to understand the literal hundreds of calls he gets from guys that just want free information. He also has a very dry sense of humor that can be mistaken for rudeness. I had to learn that one myself. If you give him the benefit of the doubt you'll find him to be a very knowledgable guy and, at least in my case, a good friend.[/quote']" I don't really care if he is rude or not. I just want my LS1 to work well and do everything I expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwik240z Posted March 10, 2004 Author Share Posted March 10, 2004 Sorry the last message came out wrong. I guess I need to learn how to use the quote function properly and preview my posts. Here it is again corrected. Phantom wrote: "David, Minor correction. John won't sell his other components if you don't get his engine mounts. His mounts don't require that you use all the other stuff but they are required to make his other stuff work. I have evaluated the layout and both the alternator and AC compressor could be mounted in different locations. The advantage of this layout is that one is a stock location and by placing the AC compressor where he did we were able to use the stock accessory drive components, including the stock serpentine belt. " I wrote: Phantom, Could the A/C & Alternator stay in the stock location using John's motor mounts? Phantom wrote: "The transmission mount will allow you to run dual 2.5" exhaust if that helps. It's harder with the 4L60E than the T56 but it works. The engine mount brings the gearshift up about 1/2" forward of the stock location in a 280Z. If you can use that as a reference for your 240Z then glad to help." I wrote: That does help some. Do you know how far below the floorboards the trans mount sticks out if at all? Phantom wrote: "The biggest thing about the components is the amount of work you don't have to do. He uses a recored stock radiator so there is no fabrication to do there and I'll definitely vouch for its effectiveness when used in conjunction with the Z28 fan shroud and fans. That's the other thing - the Z28 shroud and fans only require a small amount of trimming to fit like they were made for the Z radiator. His vital fulids kit gets you the hoses you need for radiator & heater hook-ups. You can source those yourself no real problem - it just will take a little time." I wrote: I already have a 4 core Z radiator so that is a plus. So is the fact that the fans and shroud will fit nicely as seen in your pics. I think the price for the Vital fluids is fair (as are most of his prices) considering how much time it took me on my 510 V8 to find the correct fitting hoses. Phantom wrote: "The headers are headers. No big deal. But they do come with the 02 sensor bungs. You can cut up the stock exhaust manifolds a bit and move your steering arm slightly and make the stockers work." I wrote" If I have to go with headers I guess I can make the trade for more HP vs. quieter ride. I do have a problem with the A/C though. I read in the LS1/LS6 performance book about all of the trouble GM went through to isolate the A/C from the other accessories in order to reduce the noise and the vibration from the compressor. Also in the stock location the A/C compressor runs on it's own belt. We only use A/C her for about 3 months and it would be easy to disconnect that drive belt for the rest of the year and for track events. Not to mention that the engine bay looks alot cleaner with it tucked down low (Not saying your engine bay doesn't look Great. It does) And it is a GM part that is readily available if something goes wrong. Phantom wrote: "I've really tried to not come across as a salesman for his stuff but, since I'm the only one with very thorough first-hand knowledge of it, I will attempt to clarify any issues. Anyone can PM or direct email me any time with questions. If you are in the DFW area I'm even willing to meet and let you look at the car." I wrote: Do you know of any other completed LS1 Z cars using Johns kit? Have any do it yourselfers completed his kit? Phantom wrote: "One other item. John does come across on the phone as rude. I've been to his place many times and you just have to understand the literal hundreds of calls he gets from guys that just want free information. He also has a very dry sense of humor that can be mistaken for rudeness. I had to learn that one myself. If you give him the benefit of the doubt you'll find him to be a very knowledgable guy and, at least in my case, a good friend. " I wrote: I don't really care if he is rude or not. I just want my LS1 to work well and do everything I expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwik240z Posted March 10, 2004 Author Share Posted March 10, 2004 Good gawd, Dave, that was an epic. I wasn't speaking to you in particular, just in general. You know what I'm talking about, after being part of the 510 group for some time. Anyway, you should be able to get your car done for that $20k budget, especially since you started with a nice car. Mine is a full on bare metal restoration, monster brakes, body kit, LS6, blah, blah, blah and that is not counting any of my time and labor to actually put the car together. It adds up quick, eh? Gary, I wasn't trying to minimize what you had said either. You raise very valid points about supporting those that support our hobby. I guess I am used to the 510 community where so much info is readily available from other 510 owners because so little support is available from the aftermarket. It seems that with the handful of LS1 swaps completed already the info will start to roll in and someone will come up with an easier and/or better way. You have been a big help to me so far with this project. Your input (along with others on this list) helped me decide on the LS1. Thanks to everyone who helps support our habit, err hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 I know I'll regret typing this, but you could make a cross member/mount setup like mine in about 4 hours. The thing does not have to come out of the car. Requires about $30 worth of metal from HomeDepot (their prices suck, but they're open saturdays). I keep saying I will take measurements, and then I never do. I suck. I have a 4L60e mount sitting on my work bench. It's rather unique looking and requires mods to the tunnel (welding in plates with threaded holes). You can get a nice welder for $500. It's a great tool to have. I paid $70 for my Dewalt angle grinder about 10 years and 5million grinding wheels ago. You get into trouble when you start taking things apart to sandblast and paint them. I dunno why I persist in doing that since my car looks like crap - bubbling paint, dented rear quarter, no interior, wires all over. Oh well. Anyway, once you have the measurements that place the motor in the correct location with the right driveline angles - that's a huge part of it. I'm certainly not tryna copyright that info. I'm just not altruistic enough to go crawling around the car taking it all down. Too many other projects. Maybe I'll get my son to do it as a summer project. He's actually very anal retentive about such things - he'd do a better job than me. I'll set him up a Paypal account and he can sell the measurements for $2! Might be a good source of video game money for him. The other stuff also adds up. The wiring, the fuel routing. Those soaked up a giant amount of time. And they're no where near as fun as mounting the drivetrain. Exhaust was challenging, but that was kind of fun too. If you really want to come out ahead on time, I would spend money on a Speartech wiring harness and a C5 fuel rail. Also a fuel cell and aftermarket pump. In other words, for me at least, the motor mounting was "thing". It was the hobby aspect that I enjoyed. It's what I think of when people ask me about my car. I try and block out all the late nights spent analyzing wiring schematics. That's the thing you want to just throw money at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briguy280Z Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Ok I still don’t have the measurement too busy bla bla bla....I got a ref appointment on Thursday and trying to get everything together. I used the JTR transmission mount design. I don’t know how much it would cost but a metal shop can do it for you if you don’t want to order it. I had mine done for free cuz i used to work at a metal shop as a CAD designer. One of these days i can draw them up completely and finish a correct drawing. for a fee!! JK The engine is very strait with the rear differential and very minimal vibration. Only turning left...hehe dam AC Unit But otherwise just to put my 2 cents in. I spent allot of time and money to make this car worth doing. Not only did i change the motor but all the springs, rubbers and stripped the original paint. I bought the car about 7 years ago for $250 and i was going to do a JTR conversion. With not much money i did as much as i could. After being a college grad i was able to do other things than just a JTR conversion. LS-1 came up when i found this forum and i did it. No plans or conversion kits but a motor and a forum. (I love you guys) Question after question I had to ask Jeromio and others to see what i can do to fit this beast in this car. If it wasn’t for you guys I don’t know if I would have done to get the car complete. This was a hobby not just a mission to go fast but something i did with my own hands (A Z-car enthusiast) with a little help from a metal shop which i provided the designs and a GM service manual was able to finish the car. (Cross fingers for Thursday) I could of dumped 5k into my 944 turbo and made a 400 rwhp Porsche. But the challenge and of doing something like this was more inspiring It might take some time but i will get back to you with a reply Briguy280z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Dang! This has to be the longest first page of any post in the history of the forum! alternator - can mount low or high on drivers side or high on passenger side - your choice. AC compressor - can mount high on passenger side if stock unit used. If the JCI unit is used it can mount either side. It is much shorter in length tha the OEM unit. If the alternator were high on passenger it might even be able to mount low on driver side but I doubt it. Transmission mount - maybe Gary can shed some light there as he has the new one. Gary - you've let the cat out of the bag! I have mixed emotions aabout a fuel cell becuase of having to make it work with the datsun gauge - or replacing all the gauges. That may be the only option though with the 240. Since the 280 was set up for FI it was no problem just to toss a higher capacity pump into the stock location and go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS1 Z Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 I purchased John's kit. I have no complaints. Gonna drop the motor in this weekend. Soo far everything fits like a glove just like John states. I agree with Phantom, talking to John, gotta know where he is coming from. He has been help full. The kit is well designed and thought of! Spent around 1,200. What I didn't get was a/c(non a/c car), radiator(have mine recored locally) headers,(using Sanderson in S.S.F like mas280). This project is gonna work and fly!! The cool thing is the amount of information on this website. When i get stuck it's nice to have mas280 close. I'll be calling you Mike!! Thank you! JOEY [/b] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Joey - Welcome to the forum and the land of LS1!!! Great to hear of someone else who has JCI stuff and that it works as advertised. I'm available for email questions if you have any as your project goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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